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Bloodborne (Dark Souls 2 successor (Dark Souls successor (Demon's Souls successor)))

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Maybe it's just that the Souls games give me a handle on a fantasy that's fun and exciting to me, being a knight/sorcerer/whatever exploring the ruins of a lsot civilisation.

I've never wanted to be a Lovercraft protagonist, or cosplay van Helsing.

I really enjoyed the different style in Bloodborne, but it's just not something that resonates as much with me.

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Yeah that makes sense. I also like knights/sorcerors/whatever, but I get to do that in basically all video games, so it's nice to be able to do something different.

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I bought a PS4 not too long ago (I know, new versions, etc.) and have been getting deep into Bloodborne lately. I've made it pretty far without too much difficulty, but I just can't seem to get past Martyr Logarius. I've mostly given up on it, but as I keep going, leveling up and beating more bosses, I keep going back and trying to take him down, but I never seem to make any progress. That guy is just the worst. Any advice?

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I would just summon for that fight. It's a hard one. The other option is to learn which attacks can be parried but he's fairly inconsistent about using those attacks.

 

Oh there is one trick! You can keep him from going into his second phase by hitting him with a charge attack as he's got his sword in the ground. You have to be quick but if you can do it the second half is a lot easier.

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I agree with Vulpes, I used summon on about half of the boss battles in my playthrough, and this is definitely one that can get frustrating on your own.

 

If you are determined to beat Logarius solo, I seem to remember the hardest part being his final stage, where his magic attack can basically one shot you. It's been awhile since I fought him, but I believe I found that the best strategy there was to stay as close to him as possible and just keep attacking/dodging as much as your stamina will allow. If you stop attacking for too long, or back too far away from him, that is when he will unleash that magic attack and own you.

 

I don't remember a ton from his earlier phase, so I can't provide much help there.

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Thanks for the advice. I actually have tried summoning, but I never seem to get a response. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever been able to summon anyone other than an NPC successfully. Is there any NPC for Logarius that I'm missing?

 

EDIT: And I just tried it again solo and made it through. I had been using a Kirkhammer, but I tried using a Tonitrus and that made all the difference apparently.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: Of course there was no one around to help, but there was someone around to invade me in the next area. Hooray for jolly cooperation.

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Congrats!  Logarius was one of the bosses I had to throw myself at a whole bunch before I really started getting a pattern and strategy down for him.  Definitely one of the harder bosses. 

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Congrats!  Logarius was one of the bosses I had to throw myself at a whole bunch before I really started getting a pattern and strategy down for him.  Definitely one of the harder bosses. 

 

Thanks! I just finished the game (I missed some umbilical cords, so bad endings for me) and all things considered, I think that's my least favorite boss fight. I can't put my finger on it, but something about it just made it feel way less manageable than the rest. 

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Bloodborne dosn't have a good ending anyways. As explained in this really great video that spoils everything about the game:

 

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So I'm finally a PS4 owner so I started playing Bloodborne yesterday. I was a little hesitant about picking it up because I bounced hard off of DS3 and figured I had exhausted my enjoyment of Souls games, but nope, turns out I just really hated DS3! I love all the design changes, and the overall simplification of all those systems that had accumulated throughout the years. It makes me wonder why DS3 wasn't similarly stripped down...

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I think the simplicity is nice too, but in such a long game you start to miss some of the stuff they removed after a while. I'll be curious to hear what you think after you're done with it.

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Bloodborne dosn't have a good ending anyways. As explained in this really great video that spoils everything about the game:

 

 

 

Oh that is a good... I mean... high quality video.

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On 8/22/2016 at 4:40 PM, eot said:

I think the simplicity is nice too, but in such a long game you start to miss some of the stuff they removed after a while. I'll be curious to hear what you think after you're done with it.

 

Update: so I haven't quite finished the game (I've been taking a nice, leisurely time with the game) but I'm very close to being finished with the game. If anything, my positive feelings for the game have only increased.

 

I still don't miss all the extra stuff from Souls. I think the controversy around DS3's poise mechanics highlights exactly how stupid these poorly defined stats are and they should just be ripped out from the game. I know some people don't like that there's only one real viable build, but that's fine with me since that one viable build feels great to play. I'd like to see a From Software game that takes cues from Monster Hunter and rips out leveling up and character stats altogether, and just focuses on improving weapons and armor.

 

I gave up on DS3 awhile ago, but if I try and give it another shot here are the things I think I will miss:

 

Boss music: Bloodborne was a return to Demon's Souls excellent boss music. Demon's Souls had these gorgeous soundtracks that were very evocative. Meanwhile each Dark Souls game the music has gotten increasingly bombastic and only seeks to evoke one thing: THIS IS EPIC. By DS3 I felt like it had gotten completely farcical. Bloodborne's boss music has its bombastic moments, but comparatively it is way toned down with a lot more emphasis on nice string sections, and I really appreciated that.

 

Boss fights: I can't quite point my finger on why but I've enjoyed the boss fights in Bloodborne way more than in Dark Souls 2 & 3. Boss fights are suppose to be a highlight of the series, but in 2 & 3 I found them to be more of a slog than something enjoyable.

 

The rally/regain system: It's brilliant, and I'm sure I will miss the risk/reward calculation it makes your brain puzzle over while fighting enemies.

 

Weapon depth: The Dark Souls series has a much broader array of weapons, but I like sheer variety of move sets that Bloodborne packs into its weapons.

 

The environment: Bloodborne does a better job of making its environments feel like real places. The only thing that comes close is the first world in Demon's Souls. All the Souls games have some lovely environments, but Yarnham was such a nice contrast to the excessive wilderness exploration of DS3.

 

I probably will give DS3 another shot once I'm finished up with Bloodborne. I think I will try some sort of agility build. If I've learned one thing I think it is that I really just don't enjoy the sword & board style that has kind of become the default build for the Dark Souls games.

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On 2016-11-29 at 7:00 PM, sclpls said:

 

Update: so I haven't quite finished the game (I've been taking a nice, leisurely time with the game) but I'm very close to being finished with the game. If anything, my positive feelings for the game have only increased.

 

I still don't miss all the extra stuff from Souls. I think the controversy around DS3's poise mechanics highlights exactly how stupid these poorly defined stats are and they should just be ripped out from the game. I know some people don't like that there's only one real viable build, but that's fine with me since that one viable build feels great to play. I'd like to see a From Software game that takes cues from Monster Hunter and rips out leveling up and character stats altogether, and just focuses on improving weapons and armor.

I will agree with you about the stats, they're vestigial element in Bloodborne. I'm almost a bit envious that you don't miss any of the stuff from Dark Souls. There's so much I like about Bloodborne, and it should be my favourite in the series, but the things that make it great aren't the "cut" features. Having build variety wouldn't make the game worse.

 

For me it's not specifically build variety, but how character customization and item pickups affect the game. There are essentially no pickups in the game that have a significant impact on your character and this made me enjoy exploring the environments less, but it also made my second play through way less interesting. In Dark Souls the items scattered throughout the game serve as mini-goals that you set for yourself, and also create a sort of pacing to your run. For example, I might decide that I want an early +15 weapon and go straight to Capra without fighting Taurus demon, then kill Ingward and drain New Londo and finally go back to the Asylum and fight Stray Demon for the slab. There are endless ideas for how to structure your play through and the game encourages this.

 

In Bloodborne, despite the open-endedness and many optional areas/bosses, there is nothing. What do I get for fighting Amygdala? Some chalice I'll admit to never even having tried. The weapon upgrades are tied to main story progress, they're not unlocked by items or NPCs. The only thing to go for is the Witch of Hemwick since she gives you runes, but runes don't have nearly the impact rings do in Dark Souls, they don't change how you play. All you have is the gameplay, that is the motivation to play. I realize how dumb it sounds to say that the gameplay isn't enough of a reason to play, especially in a game with gameplay as good as Bloodborne, but I think context can be just as important as gameplay. It's why daily challenges work, they frame the gameplay in a specific context that makes it more enjoyable. Again, I don't see why Bloodborne couldn't have this aspect when all the Souls games did it so well.

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I'll cop to not having replayed any of the Souls games. That's why build variety isn't too important to me, and why some of your other criticisms, though perfectly reasonable criticisms that I would imagine a lot of people agree with, don't really affect my feelings for the game. I agree that most of the items you pickup in Bloodborne aren't particularly exciting for the most part... I went through most of the game just using the Hunter Axe, and occasionally I would switch out armor for aesthetics, but mostly it was just like picking up consumables. That being said I did really like the gem system in Bloodborne, and I wish that system had made it into DS3. I really like the modular approach to weapon design in Bloodborne.

 

But I think From really upped their game in terms of environmental storytelling compared to the Souls games, and that was enough for me to keep playing through the game and fighting all these optional bosses (and also because the bosses were fun to fight). Also this is just personal preference, but I found the story a little easier to parse and more interesting compared to Dark Souls which has always seemed kind of cool but I generally find I end up only half paying attention to it.

 

P.S. Finished Bloodborne last night. Those were some great fights, and the ending was creepy and unsettling in a good way!

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@sclpls I actually have played a couple of the Souls games and despite the lack of customization Bloodborne is by far my favorite game in the series. The combat is much faster and the game overall is very addictive, I find myself going back to this game frequently for a quick play through because its pretty short if you know what you're doing.

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So, I have been playing Bloodborne, after only watching Nick stream Dark Souls 1 and 2. And the game is fun, even if it has been frustrating at times. I'm still kind of getting the hang of it. 

 

Here is a fun moment from early on, when, after a couple of hours of frustration with a boss, I finally found vengeance.

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I just started playing Bloodborne, and I think the only real gripe I have about it so far is the whole Blood Vial system. It might just be because of how I approach bosses, but having to stop and farm for them in the middle of trying to kill one is really awful (as is farming for a few hours or whatever just so I never run out of them.) The obvious solution is to be better so I need less, but it feels punitive in a way that's different from the other games in the series I've played and I'm not a very big fan. Aside from that, everything feels good so far! Putting it all on Strength.

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I've written a lot of words about the Blood Vial system; in my mind it's the one change that is inarguably for the worse. Of course, not everyone agrees. I've yet to see a good argument for it. They usually go:

 

-I never needed to grind [and therefore neither should you] (good for you, that doesn't address anything)

-It motivates you to play better because there's more at stake (like you magically unlock your potential by being threatened with grinding)

 

People will often use both, not realising they're contradictory (if you're never affected by it, how is it a good design change?). The truth of the matter is that it punishes people for doing worse and I think the nothing-to-lose aspect of Souls games once you die a few times is something good, not something bad. 20 vials would probably be too many if they refilled every time, but whatever. I think Estus is one of the best healing systems in any game, and I think the ability to pick up blood vials as you go allows you to almost always be stocked up on them while you explore. You never get the tension from being down to one flask and trying to find the next bonfire.

 

Anyway Kyir, I recommend stocking up on them early. It used to be you could only have 100 of them but it's much higher now. They're easiest to buy in the beginning IMO because they get price hikes later on (that is dumb too). Grinding in this game kinda sucks btw because you inexplicably can't rest at a lamp and respawn the enemies.

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Yeah the blood vial system is bad.

 

The brick boys (brutes??) drop em fairly often (I think even all the time?) tho and there's an easy place to grind them early on if you need to.

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1 hour ago, eot said:

The truth of the matter is that it punishes people for doing worse and I think the nothing-to-lose aspect of Souls games once you die a few times is something good, not something bad. 20 vials would probably be too many if they refilled every time, but whatever. I think Estus is one of the best healing systems in any game, and I think the ability to pick up blood vials as you go allows you to almost always be stocked up on them while you explore. You never get the tension from being down to one flask and trying to find the next bonfire.

 

I've said it before, but I feel sorry for the designer who was charged with creating a health system to replace Estus. Estus is genius for how it enforces a mix of conservatism and risk-taking on the player. Attempts to modify and iterate on that system in DS2 and DS3 definitely weakened it, but replacing it with a health-drop system that requires grinding in case of catastrophic failure is... an unfortunate step backwards.

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The blood vial system was good for my play style, but inarguably worse for others (on the other hand the estrus system was kinda bad for me, but better for others, and I wish people would recognize there are trade offs involved with that system too...).

 

The frenzy mechanic is even worse though. That was so dumb.

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I like frenzy. :awesome:

 

I think the point is not about playstyle, but about cohesive game design. The estus flask fits the Dark Souls style of gameplay. The blood vials do not, because the games are not about grinding. Yes, you can grind, of course, but that's not how the games are designed. Except in this one tiny (big) little (huge) aspect.

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