Fez 2

[subbes]

Icebox?

[Daniel]

I hope after an adequate cool-down period Fish will come back to games. I don't know a ton about him beyond Indie Game: The Movie and some appearances on GiantBomb, but he generally seems like someone who loves video games as a medium.

 

Putting aside whatever that was that happened on Twitter over the weekend, it's really weird to me that Fish/Blow/other developers are regularly criticised over personality quirks. I'm confident that there are a lot more people like them in the industry that simply don't have a spotlight on them.

 

It's not like anyone is actively berating authors for being jerks. Well, at least not in any literary circles I come in contact with.

[Henroid]

Please tell me the video tegan linked was meant to be ironic when it was made. Because what the hell.

 

Also props to that Game Grumps video, that was one of their best episodes ever.

[Niyeaux]

Wait, who the fuck are those guys in the Game Grumps video? I watched the original Game Grumps videos when they started that channel, and their names were Jon and Aaron. That guy is named Dave? I am confused.

[Henroid]

Jon left Game Grumps for non-specific reasons so now it's Arin (egoraptor) and this guy named Danny. I like Danny. Though that Mickey Mousecapade episode, Arin is the star of the show.

[syntheticgerbil]

Ugh, I know. Even worse since Plinkett is supposed to be a parody of the types of whiny creepy guys who review things on the internet.

 

 

Incidentally, every time I hear the name of a video reviewer that goes like "irate gamer" or "cynical gamer" or whatever, I immediately think of this guy:

 

This guy is so much fun. THE NEEENTEENDO SHITCUBE! I used to love shouting like him at work.

 

THE CONTROLLER IT DOESN"T WERRK! THE DEESC LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING COOKEEE!

[Roderick]

How super depressing. I recently had a discussion with someone about whether or not Zero Punctuation falls into the category of 'angry, cynical, everything sucks' reviewing. I thought it did, but then I deliberately haven't watched it in years anymore. I guess my thoughts are echoed on this board: I am so sick of cynicism and squeezing 'humor' out of being a caustic asshole. Like a lot of sarcasm, it's the easiest goddamn thing in the world, and therefor also the most worthless thing. Ugh, damaging, stupid, destructive... go make something beautiful, add a thing to the world, instead of tearing shit down just because you can. Vandalism has never, ever been a positive force.
 

[DISCLAIMER]: I greatly enjoy Red Letter Media and the Plinkett reviews. On the surface perhaps not very different, but look closer and you see that a. these are comedy characters, b. there is a surprising amount of sincerity and valuable criticism on display. Just rewatch the Episode 1 review. There are moments of transcendent retrospection in there, where Plinkett ruminates on what could have been and where Lucas went wrong. That has nothing to do at all with bullying a person for laughs or tearing down someone's work because it's easy.

[Ben X]

How super depressing. I recently had a discussion with someone about whether or not Zero Punctuation falls into the category of 'angry, cynical, everything sucks' reviewing. I thought it did, but then I deliberately haven't watched it in years anymore. I guess my thoughts are echoed on this board: I am so sick of cynicism and squeezing 'humor' out of being a caustic asshole.

 

I also stopped watching ZP years ago, but at that time his byline included the phrase "professional troll".

[Thrik]

It seems kind of ridiculous to me that Zero Punctuation is still going. After watching a few episodes I definitely felt like it'd run its course, being entertaining but hardly the kind of thing you'd tune in for for years on end. How do you keep that fresh for six years?

[dmarlett]

How super depressing. I recently had a discussion with someone about whether or not Zero Punctuation falls into the category of 'angry, cynical, everything sucks' reviewing. I thought it did, but then I deliberately haven't watched it in years anymore. I guess my thoughts are echoed on this board: I am so sick of cynicism and squeezing 'humor' out of being a caustic asshole. Like a lot of sarcasm, it's the easiest goddamn thing in the world, and therefor also the most worthless thing. Ugh, damaging, stupid, destructive... go make something beautiful, add a thing to the world, instead of tearing shit down just because you can. Vandalism has never, ever been a positive force.

 

I find his stuff to be amusing but I never base any of my opinions solely on his reviews.  I only get irritated when he attacks the developers and calls them idiots.  That's usually a sign of someone who doesn't realize how much work goes into making a polished game (and I used polished because I know he made a couple low-end games in the past).

[Merus]

There was a brief moment when he started where he was actually constructing arguments instead of blowing minor flaws out of proportion.

 

I asked a friend who'd gotten some internet fame for mocking reviews about this once, actually, and he put it in context for me: when you start out deservedly mocking the things you hate, and you get a little audience from it, you start to feel a pressure to try and top the spectacle, to deliver more of what the audience wants (or at least what you perceive as what they want). If you give into that pressure, what your reaction to a work is starts drawing from previous reactions, and not the work itself. The work itself becomes mostly irrelevant except as a launching point for a comedy skit about someone who gets angry at inconsequential shit.

[Dosed]

Yeah, you'd think that being a developer himself Yahtzee would refrain from personally attacking developers. I've watched most episodes of Zero Punctuation, but I don't watch them for critical merit or weight, I simply watch them because he does the funneh metaphors. Sure it's childish but sometimes that shit is funny. His style, obviously, reminds me of Charlie Brooker and he's also another pretty cynical guy who I happen to admire. I feel like Yahtzee's videos are pretty self contained and inoffensive (generally speaking) so it doesn't bother me as much as other cynical personas on the internet. I also feel like he's not as reactionary as a lot of other journalists, for instance as Jim Sterling. It's gotten to the point on Destructoid where I can read a headline or see a header image and I just know it's going to be Jim Sterling flipping his shit. 

 

Also, to derail this topic from it's original point back to a point to which it was derailed earlier: I have and continue to identify as a "gamer". I really don't see it being a harmful label at all, I enjoy games and woopedy-doo if other mediums don't identify themselves as "readers" or "moviers". I'm not a grubby, aggressive, homophobic man-child with the temper of a baby. I simply see the term as "someone who loves games and everything about them". That's what I define the label as and I would place my self in that category. 

[Thrik]

I identify myself as a gamer, in the same sense that somebody might consider themselves a film buff. I don't really go around proudly proclaiming it though, maybe at most saying that I consider myself "a bit of a gamer" if my enjoyment of interactive entertainment is questioned.

 

To consider it a negative label seems daft, although I think the original point was really striking out at the fact that some people use the title like it automatically makes them easier to relate to or authoritative on the matter, similarly to how some nerds call themselves 'foodies' and assume it gives them automatic superior knowledge on the subject of what makes good food.

 

To put it another way, if you're consciously going out of your way to highlight the fact that you consider yourself a gamer on a regular basis then you're probably a bit of a dweeb.

[SecretAsianMan]

I'm pretty sure most of us around here would self-identify as "gamers" but we have to make the distinction between identify and define.  It might be a semantic argument, but since the issue is the label we apply to ourselves I think the semantics matter.  I'm sure a lot of us have other passions besides gaming but none of those things alone define who we are.  I think the harm comes when we do allow any of those labels to define us.

 

I'm wondering all these topics should become new threads because we're not talking about Fez anymore and I think they're worth discussing.

[Thrik]

This forum is a bit like the Monkey Island catacombs, each thread potentially leading to numerous wild and disturbing passages.

[Argobot]

The reason I will never personally identify as a gamer: https://twitter.com/jennatar/status/361950293069541377

 

I have an issue with labels because they tend towards being a way to promote exclusivity in communities. Then again, I have no problem labeling myself as a feminist, so maybe I'm just a big hypocrite. (Obviously there's a difference from pulling a label from a philosophical/political movement -- feminist -- and pulling a label that comes almost entirely from marketing concerns -- gamer -- but I think anyone would be entirely in their rights to call me out for embracing one label while rejecting the other.)

[JonCole]

I think it's important to differentiate between anger or annoyance and pure negativity. Some pundits in the industry make a name for themselves by posing as angry or shouting their comments in YouTube videos - I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with this, especially if they are talking about things that actually make them angry or they focus on bad games. Beer went beyond his "Annoyed Gamer" persona, however, when his "annoyance" led him to egg on a known bipolar indie developer who has no obligation to answer press questions.

 

It's hard to muck around in this semantic difference, but I think it's valuable. A lot of people called this behavior "snarky" - something that suggests an edge or cutting quality beyond anger or annoyance. It's an appropriate characterization because it highlights that unnecessary element that takes a legitimate complaint and makes it personal and hurtful.

[tegan]

Please tell me the video tegan linked was meant to be ironic when it was made. Because what the hell.

 

He tries so hard.

(it's the full minute of slowly turning the controller over in his hands while he tries to think of something clever to say that makes it for me)

 

 

 

Oh by the way, I don't know about anyone else, but I exclusively read one thread per year on Neogaf.

I have no intention of making an account.

[Problem Machine]

Cliffy B's open letter encouraging Phil Fish to return to the games industry

 

I read some of the responses to this on The Escapist and have successfully refilled my reservoir of acute disdain, hopefully enough to last me for my trip back to my home planet.

[tronhound]

The reason I will never personally identify as a gamer: https://twitter.com/jennatar/status/361950293069541377

 

I have an issue with labels because they tend towards being a way to promote exclusivity in communities. Then again, I have no problem labeling myself as a feminist, so maybe I'm just a big hypocrite. (Obviously there's a difference from pulling a label from a philosophical/political movement -- feminist -- and pulling a label that comes almost entirely from marketing concerns -- gamer -- but I think anyone would be entirely in their rights to call me out for embracing one label while rejecting the other.)

 

You just sound like a huge hypocrite, labelling yourself a feminist is just as buzzword/marketing/gross labelling as gamer. Do I need to label myself as a non-racist who accepts the religious beliefs of others because I have muslim friends?

[Gormongous]

You just sound like a huge hypocrite, labelling yourself a feminist is just as buzzword/marketing/gross labelling as gamer. Do I need to label myself as a non-racist who accepts the religious beliefs of others because I have muslim friends?

 

What? Feminism represents a wide-ranging core of beliefs that are quite sensical for identifying and defining a person. Labeling yourself a gamer, meaning just that you play and enjoy games, is not even close to the same thing, although just as valid in the end.

 

Also, the mainstream media is marketing stuff to feminists now? Color me interested. Where can I find these feminist products for purchase?

[Justin Leego]

Oh, you mean stuff like the Workplace Strategy Chocolate?

[Nappi]

feministgrub.com/

[Nachimir]

This reminds me of a Bridget Christie preview I saw recently:
 

"Since I adopted the character of a radical feminist about a year ago, for commercial reasons" <laughter>

 

You just sound like a huge hypocrite, labelling yourself a feminist is just as buzzword/marketing/gross labelling as gamer. Do I need to label myself as a non-racist who accepts the religious beliefs of others because I have muslim friends?

 
Tronhound, you're either trying very hard to get a rise, or there's some actual kind of belief that motivated this car crash of a post. Please stop.

[Problem Machine]

feministgrub.com/

Why did you engineer this disappointment for me