Feminism

[syntheticgerbil]

I can't say I finished that Penny Arcade resolution after more than a few paragraphs in and skimmed the rest, but I got pretty annoyed after reading someone's sob story growing up. His growing up story is so innocuous and is most likely what nearly everyone experienced growing up in the public school system. Why did he have to type all of that shit out as some kind of excuse for his bad behavior? Boo fucking hoo. Growing up there are people who have dealt with way worse like drug addiction, abortion, suicide attempts, dropping out of school, self mutilation, and theft but many can still manage to be decent to other people. I find that people with true sob stories don't even bother using it as an excuse for bad behavior and close it up. Whatever guy.

 

The only way I could see Child's Play and PAX being a separate entity is if they sold them off completely to the hands of a more competent group that was less of a boy's club. And then I would still want PAX to have a name change so it no longer promotes this dumb comic I never liked. I can't think of any other convention that a bunch of nerds (in a good way) attend that belongs to some kind of private creative entity. I was never on board with a con started by Penny Arcade anyway because of that principle. Comic cons and anime cons are usually tied to a city with sponsors that can be changed. There's Wizard World, but that pretty much goes with the Wizard publication and I doubt anyone is a huge fan of a news and opinion magazine.

 

I guess I belong to the pitchfork mob trying to vilify them, but I would like to think not. I suppose if it's a fair assessment of me if anyone thinks otherwise.

[Gormongous]

I can't say I finished that Penny Arcade resolution after more than a few paragraphs in and skimmed the rest, but I got pretty annoyed after reading someone's sob story growing up. His growing up story is so innocuous and is most likely what nearly everyone experienced growing up in the public school system. Why did he have to type all of that shit out as some kind of excuse for his bad behavior? Boo fucking hoo. Growing up there are people who have dealt with way worse like drug addiction, abortion, suicide attempts, dropping out of school, self mutilation, and theft but many can still manage to be decent to other people. I find that people with true sob stories don't even bother using it as an excuse for bad behavior and close it up. Whatever guy.

 

I didn't react as strongly as you, but my opinion is definitely unchanged that Krahulik doesn't really know how to make an apology. He uses them first as a way to explain and justify his actions, and only second (or not at all) as a way to acknowledge fault and make amends. It's nice for him to write such a thing, which at least is less defensive than his previous things, but I'm still going to wait and see with him.

[Bjorn]

Remo tweeted a link to this article by Mattie Bryce earlier, and I think it covers a lot of the points on how I feel about certain reactions to Penny Arcade, and why they make me uncomfortable, as much so as the actions of PA have made me uncomfortable.  I know these are out of context, but I think they stand on their own as commentary on how the nature of communication goes in regards to certain topics in the gaming community.

 

 

This new year, I made a resolution to be critical without the negativity. I brought a lot of my negative feelings to social media, completely valid negative feelings, that set a tone for people to interact with me.

 

I witnessed personal attacks happen in the name of social justice yesterday, and no matter how complicated the issue, I didn’t say anything even though I felt uncomfortable. I was wrong not to say anything and I sincerely apologize for my hesistation. What we need is more nuanced discussion, and what happened was more of the same. This feels like a good example where valid anger is misused in the name of social justice.

 

However, if we look back up to that tweet, this post made the conversation hostile. The moment people feel unsafe to speak, we lose authenticity. We lose the honesty of anger.

Righteous anger humbles people, moves them, and unites people for a change. Meanness is toxic, it makes everyone uncomfortable and afraid to speak up, even if they are your allies and agree with you. In the end, critique is a call for change, and all that was there was meanness.  (emphasis added by me)

[TychoCelchuuu]

I can't say I finished that Penny Arcade resolution after more than a few paragraphs in and skimmed the rest, but I got pretty annoyed after reading someone's sob story growing up. His growing up story is so innocuous and is most likely what nearly everyone experienced growing up in the public school system. Why did he have to type all of that shit out as some kind of excuse for his bad behavior? Boo fucking hoo. Growing up there are people who have dealt with way worse like drug addiction, abortion, suicide attempts, dropping out of school, self mutilation, and theft but many can still manage to be decent to other people. I find that people with true sob stories don't even bother using it as an excuse for bad behavior and close it up. Whatever guy.

His older brother died of a drug overdose and Mike himself has a chronic anxiety disorder which is why he takes Lexapro, and that's just the stuff he's talked about, so it's not like he's had a care-free life. It's also not like people drop out of school, attempt suicide, self-mutilate, and steal as children for no reason, either - bullying drives a lot of people to these sorts of things because it can be pretty horrible getting picked on, day in and day out, and going through that as a child is no joke. Anti-bullying campaigns and things like It Gets Better exist because life can be hell for a kid in all sorts of ways.

I think it helps to have empathy for the struggles that everyone goes through rather than saying "well, some people have it worse." Because honestly we can always pull that trick on the people you're talking about, who have to face drug addiction, abortion, suicide, dropping out of school, and so on. At least they weren't born in Africa with AIDS and no access to clean water or sufficient food in a place where they don't get to go to school and can't even take the helpful, medicinal kinds of drugs, let alone recreational drugs. People in those circumstances deal with way worse shit than an angsty teenager who tries to OD on sleeping pills.

[sclpls]

That Mattie Bryce piece is really good, and well worth reading in its entirety. The distinction she makes between critique coming from a place of "righteous anger", and one that contributes to "toxicity" is really important.

[osmosisch]

Well said Tycho, I hate that fallacy.

[TychoCelchuuu]

That Mattie Bryce piece is really good, and well worth reading in its entirety. The distinction she makes between critique coming from a place of "righteous anger", and one that contributes to "toxicity" is really important.

Yeah, I definitely agree - it's a great article.

[syntheticgerbil]

His older brother died of a drug overdose and Mike himself has a chronic anxiety disorder which is why he takes Lexapro, and that's just the stuff he's talked about, so it's not like he's had a care-free life. It's also not like people drop out of school, attempt suicide, self-mutilate, and steal as children for no reason, either - bullying drives a lot of people to these sorts of things because it can be pretty horrible getting picked on, day in and day out, and going through that as a child is no joke. Anti-bullying campaigns and things like It Gets Better exist because life can be hell for a kid in all sorts of ways.

I think it helps to have empathy for the struggles that everyone goes through rather than saying "well, some people have it worse." Because honestly we can always pull that trick on the people you're talking about, who have to face drug addiction, abortion, suicide, dropping out of school, and so on. At least they weren't born in Africa with AIDS and no access to clean water or sufficient food in a place where they don't get to go to school and can't even take the helpful, medicinal kinds of drugs, let alone recreational drugs. People in those circumstances deal with way worse shit than an angsty teenager who tries to OD on sleeping pills.

I disagree. I he's going to to use it as an excuse for being a jerk, then he'd better have something juicy. He didn't use his brother as part of why he's a jerk, so I don't see how it's relevant. Completely ignoring the severity of the situation of someone's childhood, especially concerning bullies compared to just name calling as not everyone who fights or argues with someone is a bully.

 

Of course people in Africa have it worse, but he was specifically referring to his situation in public school and specifically referring to bullying not AIDs, clean water, murder, and whatever else tends to go on in Africa. You're last sentence seems to reinforce my original opinion that the severity of the situation is extremely relevant to his excuse. Plus you can factor in the exact same people he's made fun of and insulted as having it worse than him growing up (rape victims, women, and transgender) and being an important factor on why he shouldn't keep being a fucking asshole as an adult. The guy is 36 years old now, and learning how to not to put down those that are different than you and writing a sincere apology are really things he should have figured out by now, well out of his teens.  Really, boo fucking hoo, Mike Krahulik.

[Jason Bakker]

I'd highly recommend considering donating to her Patreon to support her continued work.

 

I've been trying to say something about being careful re-appropriating other people's words and thoughts to fit your own perspective, but couldn't manage to do so without re-appropriating Brice's, so I might just say that when someone who is a social justice activist speaks out in this way against the pendulum swinging too far towards vitriol and hatred, the people who are being affected by marginalization and systemic oppression in the first place are the ones who should decide where it should lie.

[sclpls]

Yeah, I agree with that as well.

[Joewintergreen]

I disagree. I he's going to to use it as an excuse for being a jerk, then he'd better have something juicy. He didn't use his brother as part of why he's a jerk, so I don't see how it's relevant. Completely ignoring the severity of the situation of someone's childhood, especially concerning bullies compared to just name calling as not everyone who fights or argues with someone is a bully.

 

Of course people in Africa have it worse, but he was specifically referring to his situation in public school and specifically referring to bullying not AIDs, clean water, murder, and whatever else tends to go on in Africa. You're last sentence seems to reinforce my original opinion that the severity of the situation is extremely relevant to his excuse. Plus you can factor in the exact same people he's made fun of and insulted as having it worse than him growing up (rape victims, women, and transgender) and being an important factor on why he shouldn't keep being a fucking asshole as an adult. The guy is 36 years old now, and learning how to not to put down those that are different than you and writing a sincere apology are really things he should have figured out by now, well out of his teens.  Really, boo fucking hoo, Mike Krahulik.

i feel like you and mike krahulik are saying the same thing here. did you end up finishing reading the post?

he knows he's a shitty guy and a bully and he says he wants to work on not being that anymore. is it really more productive to just say "boo fucking hoo" to the guy than to encourage the idea that an asshole can work to become a non-asshole

[Bjorn]

I'd highly recommend considering donating to her Patreon to support her continued work.

 

I've been trying to say something about being careful re-appropriating other people's words and thoughts to fit your own perspective, but couldn't manage to do so without re-appropriating Brice's, so I might just say that when someone who is a social justice activist speaks out in this way against the pendulum swinging too far towards vitriol and hatred, the people who are being affected by marginalization and systemic oppression in the first place are the ones who should decide where it should lie.

 

Good for her, she's picked up quite a few more patrons today.  She was just over $400 per article when I first looked at her page earlier.

 

On your other topic...I see the logic behind that, but don't necessarily agree.  That's the kind of statement that basically says certain people don't have a place in the conversation, which is a problematic thing to say.  You don't necessarily want to give a seat at the table to your most virulent enemy right away, but you also don't want to alienate friends and allies.   I certainly don't want to ever want to twist someone's elses words to fit my perspective (which I don't think I was going by selecting out a few quotes to share).

[syntheticgerbil]

he knows he's a shitty guy and a bully and he says he wants to work on not being that anymore. is it really more productive to just say "boo fucking hoo" to the guy than to encourage the idea that an asshole can work to become a non-asshole

No, I know he ultimately apologized, but going in to some sob story first does not make a sincere apology. Ultimately what that does is deter from the issue and shift blame. This is speaking from something I had to personally learn in my life for multiple reasons. One can't explain away their actions with some past when how one acts in the present is always the choice of the individual no matter what baggage is carried. This is at least the third apology that his been constructed this way. He continues to apologize with the insincere "but" at the end, but instead begins with it. Seriously, all he had to do was cut the first three paragraphs and the beginning of the fourth and it would have been a great apology.

 

On your second sentence, I don't know why it is my job to encourage a public figure to change and get behind him like he's some kind of charity case that we all have to band together and nurse back to health. I don't personally know the guy and he's never going to read my posts. So what's my stake then? The dude owns a major convention and runs a major charity and is nearly 40 years old, so he really should have had this stuff together by now. There's great responsibility with being a public figure and he's had about a decade to do it right. I feel like PA has only squeaked by because of how immature the games industry in general has tended to be and how easy it is to overlook.

 

If every Penny Arcade fan wants to root for the guy to not to be an asshole so be it, but I'd rather have him suffer the consequences and sell off the charity and expo if he truly wants to make it right per his suggestion. Then the baggage and hate can disappear and everyone in the industry will be better for it. In the end, Mike is still going to have all his money and fame and the comic will continue, so it's not really a loss per se. What your saying is the equivalent of asking me to care about whether or not the Toronto mayor gets over his drug addiction and ever gains the respect of the people back to keep a spot in office. As a public figure, he shouldn't be allowed in politics ever again and probably won't be because he should have been responsible in the first place. Those are his consequences.

I think ultimately I'd better agree to disagree with you guys, because my opinion on this matter isn't going to change and I'm just getting the feminism thread way off topic at this point.

[Joewintergreen]

I honestly mostly agree with you, I guess I just saw more sincerity in the post than you did. The context of his shitty childhood might seem irrelevant to you (and maybe you're right) but I still see him taking the blame for who he is in that post. It's way late at his age and it doesn't make him a great guy (I don't think he is) but I still think it's commendable if it's genuine. I didn't at all mean to suggest that you or any of us have a responsibility to support Krahulik or anyone like him. I think he is a jerk and he has said things that were totally fucked up and offensive to me and people I care about. I just would rather be optimistic than vengeful and bitter in my discussions of it, I guess.

Depending on the way your life unfolds, it can be frighteningly easy to just stay ignorant indefinitely. I am generally in favour of people trying to get past that.

[Merus]

I think it's a mistake to treat this as an apology because it's very clearly not, and it's not intended to be one.

 

That said, it shows some awareness of the harm he's done, which is actually sort of important. The usual non-apology apology is acknowledging people are upset, but not that people are right to be upset. I don't think that people are obligated to be nice as a result, but neither do I think it's meaningless.

[dibs]

He may have ocean madness, but that's no excuse for ocean rudeness.

[syntheticgerbil]

This possibly doesn't belong in this thread, but I found it super disturbing: http://jezebel.com/texas-will-keep-a-dead-woman-on-life-support-just-to-in-1494954930
 
There's also speculation on whether the family has to end up footing the bill. I hate this state.

[Brannigan]

What the article kind of brushes over is that she never wanted to be on life support for any reason after seeing a family member go through that. So double yuck.

[elmuerte]

female --> fe-male --> iron-male --> iron-man

[BigJKO]

I write to you in regards to a posting made by one Mr. Twig, wherein he cast aspersions on the practice of "signing" forum posts. Contrary to Mr. Twig's assertions, singing posts is a clear indicator of courtesy in internet communications and a welcome reminder of a more congenial time. Please remove said assertion forthwith.

 

 

Singing posts are a clear indicator of courtesy, indeed..

[Bjorn]

What the article kind of brushes over is that she never wanted to be on life support for any reason after seeing a family member go through that. So double yuck.

 

Beyond that, the source article makes it even more clear:

 

Marlise and Erick Munoz, the parents of a young son, both worked as paramedics for the town of Crowley. Because their jobs brought them into routine contact with sudden death and suffering families, they had conversations about their end-of-life wishes.

 

Marlise had made it clear she would never want to be kept artificially alive with no hope of recovery.

 

“Being active paramedics and knowing the facts, they know that people who have this happen to them don’t come out of this very well,” said Crowley Fire Department Lt. Tim Whetstone, a member of the town’s firefighters association that has rallied around the Munoz family.

 

The additional details in the source article are just heart-wrenching. 

[Hermie]

Via Gamedreamer on Twitter:

 

[tegan]

I think that Japanese game development's super bizarre flavour of sexist imagery has reached its logical conclusion with the new Senran Kagura “big breasts hyper rhythm cooking battle” spinoff.

 

[Stuart]

I think that Japanese game development's super bizarre flavour of sexist imagery has reached its logical conclusion with the new Senran Kagura “big breasts hyper rhythm cooking battle” spinoff.

 

[Lu]

No.