Feminism

[Brannigan]

I really should have not watched that.

[Twig]

i just i know this stuff exists but am perpetually amazed anyway??

[Bjorn]

After those endorsements, I had to watch it.  "This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on nudity and sexual content."

[Twig]

Hah. There's no actual nudity (though it does get close).

 

I spotted a pretty choice comment when I watched it earlier that I won't repeat because it was disgusting. But once again I know this stuff exists but am perpetually amazed anyway?? Fffffff.

[tegan]

After those endorsements, I had to watch it.  "This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on nudity and sexual content."

 

 

let me give you the gist of it

 

 

[jmbossy]

How does that even happen ?

[youmeyou]

Jesus that's the stuff of nightmares.

[dibs]

How does that even happen ?

Twice

[Roderick]

What is the point of that? Sexual tittilation? Giggling at random things that happen to breasts?

[Twig]

Taken on its own, it's a pretty okay visual gag*, but in the context of the game as a whole, yeah, it's just about ladies with big tits and making sure everyone knows they have big tits. I mean, it's obviously supposed to be a funny thing. But it's surrounded by the ladies LOSING CLOTHING WHEN THEY FAIL AT COOKING which it just occurred to me is hilarious (sad) on a whole level I didn't before recognize. IF YOU CAN'T COOK, LADIES, YOU BETTER LET ME SEE SOME T&A, OR GET OUT OF MY HOUSE.

 

*(I have no desire to argue about this.)

[BigJKO]

Taken on its own, it's a pretty okay visual gag*

*(I have no desire to argue about this.)

 

I disagree, you are wrong, etc. etc.*

 

*(WRONG! ARGUE ARGUE ARGUE AARGH    )

[James]

How does that even happen ?

Looks to me like she's wondering the same thing.

[Ben X]

Ham!?

[TychoCelchuuu]

How does that even hampen?

[tegan]

But it's surrounded by the ladies LOSING CLOTHING WHEN THEY FAIL AT COOKING which it just occurred to me is hilarious (sad) on a whole level I didn't before recognize. IF YOU CAN'T COOK, LADIES, YOU BETTER LET ME SEE SOME T&A, OR GET OUT OF MY HOUSE.

 

[youmeyou]

QFT but for everyone regardless of gender.

[jmbossy]

 

I shouldn't have laughed as hard as I did...

[Nachimir]

I found another upload of the trailer. Jesus tittyfucking Christ I don't even… the way the heart silhouette near the end hovers on the breasts for longer than it does the face is a bit, um, special. More disturbing when I googled for it was finding a news site where some guy, byline and everything, wrote about the trailer and put YES PLEASE! in his headline.

[Bjorn]

Found that article, quote from it:

 

Add food to the equation, and we may as well just start throwing money at our monitors ... I'm not sure what else to say, since the trailer seems to speak for itself.

 

A truer statement than that second sentence has never been said.  The trailer does speak for itself.

 

To be honest, I don't really have an opinion on this stuff.  It's a little gross and weird to me, personally, but I guess I don't hold it against someone else if they are into it.  I've met more girls who are into things like this than I have guys.  I do wonder what the statistical demographic is for it.  Is it actually damaging in the way that I think girls toys are...probably not?  I don't inherently think that titillation for titillation's sake is bad.  Is it worse than the pornographic levels of graphic violence and mass murder that dominate American games?  Would a world where those games are the norm, and people into violent FPS games were niche be a better, worse or the same?

[jmbossy]

I do think it's an interesting subject; in that western games often rely on violence as the player's main set of actions.

Personally I see this style of game as being offensive and misogynistic.

Though I suppose someone could argue that something like Hotline Miami is offense in its depiction of violence.

 

As I understand, western culture promotes Violence>Sex, and in eastern culture (predominately Europe) Sex>Violence.

I don't know if this is something that is also true in Japan.*

Is this simply the result of a culture which depicts sexuality as casually as western culture depicts violence?***

If not, where do these games come from? Why is it almost only ever Japan that makes these types of games?

I don't really know enough to say, but I'm curious to know what you all think.

 

 

*If I don't know what I'm talking about, and am wrong about everything just tell me to shut up

***If Hotline Miami is an extreme in violence, than games of this type could be considered an extreme in sexuality

[Twig]

Is this simply the result of a culture which depicts sexuality as casually as western culture depicts violence?

This is probably part of it, but it's still so heavily skewed toward females. Though I do think Japan is much more willing to ALSO do weird things with males than western culture is. So where western culture titillation is like 100% female 0% male, Japanese is like... 99% female 1% male?

 

I am pulling numbers out of my ass. I could even be completely wrong. I have no research to back this up. It's just something that feels sort of true.

[Bjorn]

What are the odds that games which highly sexualize men would ever make it to the American market, even niche markets?  Even people who are relatively open minded can be uncomfortable with things that toy with male sexuality.  It's just something culturally, in America, that we are never exposed to.  Imagine that cooking game, but with a bunch of half nude dudes bouncing the bulges in their undies the way the ladies bounce their breasts.  Wouldn't bother me, but a lot of people would freak out.

 

I struggle with my reactions to things like this because the sexual repression in the US (particularly the midwest) bothers me so much.  A nipple shot results in millions of dollars in fines and investigations, but showing the bloody aftermath of a mass shooting.  Meh, fine, public interest, blah, blah, blah.  So even if  a game like this is misogynistic, it's also reveling in sexuality, which we need more of.  I would rather that it was more sex-positive, more gender egalitarian, and generally more respectful.  But I want media to exist that explore sexuality and the human body. 

 

I'm trying to think of a good counterexample of media that does bother me.  Way different, but take the latest Riddick movie.  A terribly misogynistic movie that wasted multiple interesting opportunities.  I wanted to kick the writer in the nuts by the time it was finished.  It was dismissive, disempowering and insulting towards its female characters (all 2 of them).  But does a hyper sexualized game like this do the same thing?  Or are its characters at least somewhat fleshed out (sorry, cheap pun)?  Do they have some agency of their own, or at the player's direction?

 

Ugh, I'm rambling about this. 

[jmbossy]

Imagine that cooking game, but with a bunch of half nude dudes bouncing the bulges in their undies the way the ladies bounce their breasts. 

 

To me that sounds absolutely hilarious (if done satirically).

 

 

It was dismissive, disempowering and insulting towards its female characters (all 2 of them).  But does a hyper sexualized game like this do the same thing?  Or are its characters at least somewhat fleshed out (sorry, cheap pun)?  Do they have some agency of their own, or at the player's direction?

 

Didn't the thumbs recently discuss GTA's portrayal of women as being objectifying? I see this as being an extrapolation of that same argument. I can't imagine a game that disrespects its female cast enough to string their breasts like ham would turn around and forge interesting characters. Though all i've seen is that one image, so i can't speak much about that particular example.

[Bjorn]

Does the absurdity level matter?  GTA and Riddick are frustrating because they have powerful, somewhat interesting male characters all over the place.  And then when it comes to women, it's like, "Oh yeah, them, they good for rapin', killin' and boobies."  At least the japanese game is just going with boobies, and not rape and murder as well.  As far as we know.  But if it's just goofy, fun and hypersexulaized, does that make it okay, or at least less bad? 

[youmeyou]

Bjorn I completely agree with your sentiment that there's an unhealthy amount of sexual repression in our culture but I don't think that condones acts of misogyny and gross objectification. 

 

By all accounts Katawa Shoujo is an interesting sex-oriented game that is thoughtful in its presentation though I have not played it. But this is an interesting piece on it: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2013/12/katawa-shoujo-sex-stuff-in-games-and.html

 

Anyway, I don't think one extreme justifies another. I think the way Riddick's female characters were written was disgusting and I think the above image is disgusting. There are ways to enjoy sex and sexual imagery without engaging in stuff like this.