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JonCole

"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

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The moral of the story:

 

Not every disagreement or error has to be the start of an activist movement.

 

I keep imagining what if people got this worked up over, like, David Brooks op-eds or whatever.

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I might regret saying this (as if that has stopped me before!) but I don't think those tweets flatter either of you. Honestly I've flirted with unfollowing you a couple of times, Cine, because you're absolutely uncompromising on race in a way that I find really confronting, and while I understand it's because I'm less aware of my racial biases than, say, sexism, it feels like you'd attack me just as soon as the openly racist dickbags you're currently angry at. Becoming socially aware is a process of growth which takes time, and it often feels like you, and many people like you, get really impatient with people not far enough along that process, encouraging them to run backwards away from what they perceive as a state where people become always angry at everything. It's understandable, no-one has that much patience, but that doesn't mean it's not real.

 

From Mike's perspective, it seems like he's trying to see the good in his customer base, because if #gamergate is at all representative of his audience, and he doesn't want to make things for fuckwits, then he'll need to get a new job. It's certainly the thought I've had over the last couple of years weeks - why should anyone make video games if you're making them for gamers?

I agree with you when you shit on somebody they are gonna shit back. What else would they do you? If  you can't start the convo saying I was perturbed its alot harder to forgive you when you make a mistake. If you think this is a fight you are accepting the mockery of gamergate as something other then such.

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on /r/Kotakuinaction there have been more and more posts about "SJWs are a cult!" all the while acting more and more like a cult themselves. They talk about how they hate it when all those feminists lump gamergate people together and how they have a hive mind mentality and force out anyone who doesn't agree with them...The lack of self-awareness really is amazing.

 

Since I've been to DiGRA and am familiar with some of the people who go to the DiGRA conferences I have been monitoring that and it is also clear that many of them have no idea what an academic organization is or even the difference between DiGRA itself doing something and DiGRA just posting a call for papers or announcement for another conference on their web site. And it is amazing that even though DiGRA is allegedly a cabal of evil feminists that they are somehow working hand-in-hand with the government and the military in the form of DARPA...

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I might regret saying this (as if that has stopped me before!) but I don't think those tweets flatter either of you. Honestly I've flirted with unfollowing you a couple of times, Cine, because you're absolutely uncompromising on race in a way that I find really confronting, and while I understand it's because I'm less aware of my racial biases than, say, sexism, it feels like you'd attack me just as soon as the openly racist dickbags you're currently angry at. Becoming socially aware is a process of growth which takes time, and it often feels like you, and many people like you, get really impatient with people not far enough along that process, encouraging them to run backwards away from what they perceive as a state where people become always angry at everything. It's understandable, no-one has that much patience, but that doesn't mean it's not real.

From Mike's perspective, it seems like he's trying to see the good in his customer base, because if #gamergate is at all representative of his audience, and he doesn't want to make things for fuckwits, then he'll need to get a new job. It's certainly the thought I've had over the last couple of years weeks - why should anyone make video games if you're making them for gamers?

Not disagreeing with anything you said here, but at the same time you participated in trolling this one gater a while back. Granted this specific person probably had no intention of engaging in an argument in good faith, and the discussion I had with him following it took a long time and a lot of energy and went nowhere. But I still can't help but think that there could've been a way of showing people like him how wrong they might be without looming like a bully (I was trolling him too but yknow...yeah).

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on /r/Kotakuinaction there have been more and more posts about "SJWs are a cult!" all the while acting more and more like a cult themselves. They talk about how they hate it when all those feminists lump gamergate people together and how they have a hive mind mentality and force out anyone who doesn't agree with them...The lack of self-awareness really is amazing.

 

This is yet another example of the kind of projection people talk about in this "movement." For the purest example: you see them claim that men only stand with women because they want to "get laid/noticed." And these tend to be the same guys who whine about getting "friendzoned" after doing nice things for a woman they know and she has the GALL to not put out. They only do things to get sex and assume those are other people's motivations.

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Not disagreeing with anything you said here, but at the same time you participated in trolling this one gater a while back. Granted this specific person probably had no intention of engaging in an argument in good faith, and the discussion I had with him following it took a long time and a lot of energy and went nowhere. But I still can't help but think that there could've been a way of showing people like him how wrong they might be without looming like a bully (I was trolling him too but yknow...yeah).

 

Yeah, I wouldn't have trolled the guy had I thought he had any intention of engaging in a serious argument - I even gave him an opportunity when he started to complain about it. I spent some time in the thread for IT #173, engaging with people who looked like they were willing to engage, and dismissing/trolling people who weren't.

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This is yet another example of the kind of projection people talk about in this "movement." For the purest example: you see them claim that men only stand with women because they want to "get laid/noticed." And these tend to be the same guys who whine about getting "friendzoned" after doing nice things for a woman they know and she has the GALL to not put out. They only do things to get sex and assume those are other people's motivations.

 

I think this is part of why people keep saying that a lot of the proponents of #GamerGate are teenagers. They show enough maturity to be fully aware of their own motivations for doing things, but not the maturity to understand other motivations than their own, so they just impart their own motivations to everyone regardless of actual differences in words and actions. The police reports are fake, the doxxing is fake, the victims are fishing for sympathy, their supporters are fishing for sex, and the entire social justice movement just wants to destroy everything that everyone loves... because that's what most members of #GamerGate would be thinking, saying, and doing in that situation. That's what most of them are doing.

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And now GamerGate is pushing the hashtag "ComicGate" because that piece of shit Spider-woman cover is being changed. GG claims it's because of oh-noes-feminists, but it's being changed because people thought it looked like shit as far as comic book level art goes. The proportions were all goofy and weird, and this isn't the first time it's happened to Marvel (backlash against art that was just bad; separate of issues of sexism). Which isn't to say the art didn't have some issues to it vis-a-vis sexism, but that wasn't the loudest voice / concern.

 

If anything they're so desperate to make their non-point / attacks that they're reaching beyond their poorly-maintained public mission statement of, "This is about journalism ethics." Because once again, it's about keeping feminism and women down.

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And now GamerGate is pushing the hashtag "ComicGate" because that piece of shit Spider-woman cover is being changed. GG claims it's because of oh-noes-feminists, but it's being changed because people thought it looked like shit as far as comic book level art goes. The proportions were all goofy and weird, and this isn't the first time it's happened to Marvel (backlash against art that was just bad; separate of issues of sexism). Which isn't to say the art didn't have some issues to it vis-a-vis sexism, but that wasn't the loudest voice / concern.

 

If anything they're so desperate to make their non-point / attacks that they're reaching beyond their poorly-maintained public mission statement of, "This is about journalism ethics." Because once again, it's about keeping feminism and women down.

Actually she got busy working on better stuff http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/09/24/no-everyone-this-is-not-comicgate-milo-manara-is-still-creating-covers-for-marvel/

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I think this is part of why people keep saying that a lot of the proponents of #GamerGate are teenagers. They show enough maturity to be fully aware of their own motivations for doing things, but not the maturity to understand other motivations than their own, so they just impart their own motivations to everyone regardless of actual differences in words and actions. The police reports are fake, the doxxing is fake, the victims are fishing for sympathy, their supporters are fishing for sex, and the entire social justice movement just wants to destroy everything that everyone loves... because that's what most members of #GamerGate would be thinking, saying, and doing in that situation. That's what most of them are doing.

To quote a Song of Ice and Fire (wrong thread, I know) : Just so.

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It's kind of screwed up how art focused on form usually ends up perpetuating stereotypes, and how defending the form turns into defending the stereotypes. Talking to a lot of gators is revealing to me how they have predetermined ideas for how games "should be", but don't realize how that same mindset perpetuates attitudes baked into the form. If you say all games "should be" about being a hero, invariably all games become about wish fulfillment, implying helplessness about certain people (usually women) and self importance. If you say games "should be" about fun, then it must ignore all semblence of serious argument or idea. It's interesting to see how this sort of infantile view of art informs the worldview of gators, informed by an objectifying cultural background.

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NPR, always on top of what's hip with the kids, decided to run a bit about the gaters.  It's not terrible, but it does basically lead with this:

 

It's a debate about a lot of things and it involves a lot of people, but at its heart, #Gamergate is about two key things: ethics in video game journalism, and the role and treatment of women in the video game industry — an industry that has long been dominated by men.

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I notice that they didn't actually talk about the "ethics" angle at all, something the comments are quick to point out (yes I read some of them, bad idea I know).  Seems like they should have said something, even if it was to point out that it was a smokescreen.

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Frankly, the fact that they could put together a 5 minute radio piece on it that was moderately coherent was a feat in itself. I think it captured the essential bits to people looking in; conflating the Quinnspiracy with Gamergate seems to actually get to the root of the matter more honestly than explaining every step of the way would.

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I don't have a problem with them not talking about the "ethics" angle, I was just a bit surprised to see it not addressed at all when they flat out say its one of the two main points.  I would have preferred it if they didn't mention it if it wasn't going to be part of their story.  Obviously that would have upset a lot of people but those people would have found something to be upset about no matter what.

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Amusingly, at the moment one of the top contributors to this week's Humble Bundle, whose charitable donation is a fund which helps young women get into game development, is going by the name "#GamerGate."

 

Oh, #GamerGate, never stop trying to purchase the moral high ground for yourself. It'll work someday.

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Amusingly, at the moment one of the top contributors to this week's Humble Bundle, whose charitable donation is a fund which helps young women get into game development, is going by the name "#GamerGate."

When I checked yesterday, the contributor in position 9 was called 'Supporting #GamerGate', and the one in position 10 was 'Take That #GamerGate'. So I guess they're beating us whichever way you look at it  :shifty:

 

 

Well that's a bunch of old bullshit.

 

And in this environment, a back-handed slap to a mass group of gamers who are mass-labeled “misogynists” “rapists” “gamers are dead” “Games ashamed” are just fighting words yelled by a distant, contemptuous, un-connected gaming entity that is part of the establishment elite – and this same recipe (the exact same spark) of every single race/political/protest riot the world over from the beginning of time.

Is he really comparing Gaters to people who suffer from racial oppression, and the press/developers they've been shouting at for the past month to 'the establishing elite'?

 

And in this outburst of anger, some of the media turned and fired into the gamer protesters, which then became a riot.

He fucking is! He basically just compared #GamerGate to Ferguson, with Gaters as the people of Ferguson. Good work, EA Man.

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I didn't want to editorialize before anyone else got a chance to read it and form their own opinion, but yeah that's basically my take on it as well. By the time I read to the bottom I was furious. I'm glad I didn't break anything, but damn if I didn't come close.

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I was (dis)honored yesterday to find myself in an "incriminating" 'gate screenshot yesterday (on a site called The Ralph Retort), even if it was just an out-of-context Nicki Minaj lyric:

 

j91cNhK.jpg

 

This conspiracy runs so, so deep.

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Hah! I saw that as proof that leigh is mean or something when I randomly decided to see if the SA gg thread was shitty or not. It is shitty.

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Yeah, although to be fair, I think the guy who posted it on SA is just scraping GG shit that makes them look like lunatics, I don't know if he is actually a jerk.

 

I didn't read the thread too closely for fear of my sanity.

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