Argobot

Dune

Recommended Posts

I've read all of them (aside from the ones done by his son) and conversely I had the worst time with God Emperor.

it's been a while since I've read it so my memory may be pretty shakey, but my snarky half-remembered synopsis of the plot is:

omniscient character sets in motion an infallible (due to omniscience) plan to commit suicide because omniscience is dull.

to which my response is: yup, omniscience is dull when you're reading about it too.

 

It's been quite a while since I've read it, so I might find it a little imponderable now, but back then I was very much in love with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's deeply disliked, except as fan camp. Lynch himself pulled an Alan Smithee in some cuts, though I'm not sure why not all.

 

There's a lot to dislike about that movie but one thing Lynch pulls that I wish we saw more of is the voiceover-as-thought-bubble thing. I thought it was a really clever/interesting thing and I'll be damned if I can come up with another live action example that does it except in the cases where it's a single character e.g. the inner thoughts of a noir P.I. or just a narrator which obvs is not what I'm talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wolf of Wall Street springs to mind as a film that did it for comic effect. For a serious approach, I get no further than the Soviet era War and Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you fuckers made me watch the movie again last night

 

 

There's a lot to dislike about that movie but one thing Lynch pulls that I wish we saw more of is the voiceover-as-thought-bubble thing. I thought it was a really clever/interesting thing and I'll be damned if I can come up with another live action example that does it except in the cases where it's a single character e.g. the inner thoughts of a noir P.I. or just a narrator which obvs is not what I'm talking about.

 
I'm not sure it's very good in terms of film-making... you end up getting a bunch of fairly boring shots of people's faces, desperately trying to be emotive without over-acting. But I don't know of any better way to do it. I don't really think the book can be adapted in a way that captures well all the time spent with characters' thoughts, hand signs, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Case in point: the perfectly serviceable Sci-Fi miniseries made of Dune, Dune Messiah and I believe even Children of Dune. They're fine, but they're also just wallpaper. It doesn't even begin to broach what's special about the books. Maybe Dune is truly 'unfilmable', though the first one at least is the most front-to-back a round story that can be understood on its own. So, I mean, good luck with God Emperor of Dune: The Movie. I'd go see it. It would have a running time of six hours at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Case in point: the perfectly serviceable Sci-Fi miniseries made of Dune, Dune Messiah and I believe even Children of Dune. They're fine, but they're also just wallpaper. It doesn't even begin to broach what's special about the books. Maybe Dune is truly 'unfilmable', though the first one at least is the most front-to-back a round story that can be understood on its own. So, I mean, good luck with God Emperor of Dune: The Movie. I'd go see it. It would have a running time of six hours at least.

 

I like the miniseries version a lot, actually, but mostly for the performances. A few of the actors really capture their characters, even among the incongruously Slavic Fremen. I do know that the director said he was only interested in making faithful adaptations, so they'd stop after Children of Dune, because a faithful adaptation of such a high-flown and inward-looking book would be impossible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the miniseries version a lot, actually, but mostly for the performances. A few of the actors really capture their characters, even among the incongruously Slavic Fremen. I do know that the director said he was only interested in making faithful adaptations, so they'd stop after Children of Dune, because a faithful adaptation of such a high-flown and inward-looking book would be impossible

 

The Fremen are Slavic in this version?? My interest in seeing this miniseries just went up 200%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Fremen are Slavic in this version?? My interest in seeing this miniseries just went up 200%.

 

More like they filmed it in the Czech Republic for tax reasons, so all the Fremen parts are local Czech and German actors, but yes, its strangeness adds to the flavor. I think it's worth watching once, just to watch something made by someone who loved Dune instead of just what they could turn Dune into. I remember watching it while playing Emperor: Battle for Dune just after having finished the entire series for the first time and I think it broke my brain and made me forever a sci-fi nerd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching the Dune miniseries feels so hollow. It's as if a really clever robot wrote and cast and directed it. "Here are scenes from that book you like! Look, their eyes are blue!" While the David Lynch version takes some liberties, it feels like the people behind the film cared a little about the source material, and wanted to make it their own. I think that we live in a society where everyone wants to rush to take every written property and throw it on the screen. Look, it's that thing you like! With actors! 

 

Edit: Also, I once thumbed through the Dune Encyclopedia in a used bookstore, and I should have bought it. I'll have to go and find a copy now. Thanks for the recommendation!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have stated elsewhere, Dune is one of my favorite books. I read it for the first time in 5th grade, found it on the shelf in the classroom, and  have since reread it a few times, each time getting more out of it. It's really gratifying to hear that people who's literary opinions I respect like it, like seeing The Argobot tweet about it (it feels weird to call someone by their forums name when referring to them on twitter, if not the same).

 

I have read Dune Messiah, and while I didn't disklie it, it didn't make a lasting impression on me. Should you choose to read it and the other sequels, I'd be very interested in your thoughts about it. I have heard that the later books (God Emperor?) get better.

 

I also recall an anecdote, I think as part of a version of Dune I got from a library, saying that Herbert went to 15 or 16 other publishers before getting it published, and the first publisher was an automotive manual publisher. I haven't been able to find much to verify that one way or the other, but, if true, it is an amusing tale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have stated elsewhere, Dune is one of my favorite books. I read it for the first time in 5th grade, found it on the shelf in the classroom, and  have since reread it a few times, each time getting more out of it. It's really gratifying to hear that people who's literary opinions I respect like it, like seeing The Argobot tweet about it (it feels weird to call someone by their forums name when referring to them on twitter, if not the same).

 

I have read Dune Messiah, and while I didn't disklie it, it didn't make a lasting impression on me. Should you choose to read it and the other sequels, I'd be very interested in your thoughts about it. I have heard that the later books (God Emperor?) get better.

 

I also recall an anecdote, I think as part of a version of Dune I got from a library, saying that Herbert went to 15 or 16 other publishers before getting it published, and the first publisher was an automotive manual publisher. I haven't been able to find much to verify that one way or the other, but, if true, it is an amusing tale.

 

Haha, sorry for that. I have a made up name because initially I wasn't sure if I wanted people on the forums to know that I'm a woman but now I (obviously) don't care. If it's less weird to use my real name that's fine with me.

 

In other news, started reading Dune Messiah today and am about 1/3 of the way through. It started off a little shaky and it definitely isn't captivating me in the same ethereal way that Dune did, but it's getting there. The Paul character is still interesting enough that I want to see where Herbert goes with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, Dune is one of my classic reads. I never warmed to any of the sequals in the same way, and am downright hostile to some of them, but the original stands tall as an amazing work of science fiction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God emperor was the last of the original series i remember.  Heretics and Chapterhouse left me feeling unsatisfied...but i was also working a crap retail job in college at the time too, strong possibility of correlation there

 

I also read the brian herbert prequels & up to Battle of Corrin.  As a whole i liked the books - but certainly lacked a weird mystic feeling I got from Frank's work.  I did like the effort to establish feuds and origin stories; mentats, spice, folding space, etc.

 

 

On the topic of the 84 movie, huge fan.  As often stated, the book feels wildly difficult to translate to film, and i liked Lynch's attempt. Personally I like the cut version better, the extended lengthens the boring parts and does little to help an uninitiated understand the intricate universe

 

 

As for the Sy-Fy mini-series, 1st one "Frank Herbert's Dune" was a waste, but Children of Dune is fun.  Certainly not a substitute retelling, but as a television special entertaining. I would have to watch and read the books again more recently to have strong opinions on some of the art direction and narrative decisions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked Gateway. Does anyone else like Gateway? I like it.

Uh, sorry for crashing in like this...

About Dune...I read the maybe first hundred pages of it. I couldn't bear the writing style, like someone else said before, it made me yawny. Also, I'm a terrible reader, there are very few books I get through, so this doesn't really speak against Dune. But yeah, otherwise I was impressed with it. Good world building with intriguingly unique, culturally foreign details, and some suspenseful scenes. I guess I may listen to it as an audio book some time before I go to sleep every night (or day). Sounds like a plan. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, I found it a bit tricky at first, even having to push myself to get through the opening chapters. But when I got a handle on it, wow, I just can't fault it. Considering the amount of dialogue in the book, I never got bored of it, it just fizzed with emotion and every character was so well constructed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have said this to Argobot on twitter, but the Dune series goes batshit after a while, so I think mileage will vary with the sequels. I loved the first book too, to the extent that I'm not sure how I took so long to get around to reading it.

 

God Emperor of Dune is probably a book too far for some, I'm currently on Heretics of Dune so I'm done. It's over for me.

 

Anyway, for those of you that have read the first game, Dune Messiah is probably my favourite Dune book so you should read at least one more. Interested to hear what people think of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things I really appreciated about Dune is how it provides and intricate and detailed universe with an extremely light touch. The prose is straightforward like most genre fiction but it doesn't attempt to make itself seem smart by overloading you with jargon. The intelligence comes through naturally.

Was it Frank Herbert who wrote quickly at a paid typewriter or am I thinking of Heinlein?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also recall an anecdote, I think as part of a version of Dune I got from a library, saying that Herbert went to 15 or 16 other publishers before getting it published, and the first publisher was an automotive manual publisher. I haven't been able to find much to verify that one way or the other, but, if true, it is an amusing tale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilton_Books

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have said this to Argobot on twitter, but the Dune series goes batshit after a while, so I think mileage will vary with the sequels. I loved the first book too, to the extent that I'm not sure how I took so long to get around to reading it.

God Emperor of Dune is probably a book too far for some, I'm currently on Heretics of Dune so I'm done. It's over for me.

Anyway, for those of you that have read the first game, Dune Messiah is probably my favourite Dune book so you should read at least one more. Interested to hear what people think of it.

Dune Messiah is finally starting to turn around for me. I don't have the same reaction as I do reading Dune, but it's still pretty good. I probably will end up reading the next one as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it Frank Herbert who wrote quickly at a paid typewriter or am I thinking of Heinlein?

 

Don't know about Heinlein but Asimov was pretty famous for working at a typewriter and his output was absolutely ridiculous.  Off the top of my head I know he is published in every section of the Dewey Decimal System and he published something in the realm of 500+ works.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dune Messiah is finally starting to turn around for me. I don't have the same reaction as I do reading Dune, but it's still pretty good. I probably will end up reading the next one as well.

 

Very few books scale the heights that Dune did! Some of the sequels are good science fiction, but they don't hold a candle to the original, even at their best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh, I love Dune. I finally got around to finishing Chapterhouse (the final "real" Dune novel) recently, and quite liked it as well. I think it's time for me to reread the entire series.

 

I can totally understand people not being into the sequels, but I found them all interesting. I guess it depends on what you're looking for out of more Dune.

 

 

My favorite example is the hints that are given for why there are no advanced AI systems in this universe. Nothing is explicitly stated, but it's so organically presented in the narrative that it doesn't take much to figure out some of those specific details. 

 

I read summaries of the Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson books out of morbid curiosity, and it turns out computers are illegal because a robot literally murdered a baby by throwing it out a window. I don't think the current wardens of Dune have quite preserved the subtlety you so enjoy from the original work.

 

One (very dorky) thing I did was to participate in a long-running Dune RPG campaign (using GURPS); it was fun to explore the setting in our own way, rewriting history as we went.

 

Oh, one thing I want to add is that revisiting Dune in ebook format is frustrating, because the kindle edition (at least when I last looked) is riddled with OCR errors from top to bottom. (edit: did a little research, and it appears that the current version on offer is improved, but still far from perfect.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now