Idle Thumbs 154: Super Good

[Gormongous]

I land in the same place Chris landed on the last time there was a discussion about Civilization (and Civ 5 in particular) and it's optimistic tone - that although I don't want everything to be cheery and optimistic, and it's certainly not how I personally view and frame the totality of human history, I am really glad that Civ is there to simply celebrate human achievements. I think that's a valid and worthwhile artistic expression and vision even if it is necessarily partial.

Yes, this is how I feel. There are also plenty of works I enjoy that are unremittingly bleak and cynical, but I don't think that's an inherently more "correct" worldview.

Yeah, I really love this part about the CIV games as well. I also suspect it fuels my just-one-more-turn-before-I-quit mentality quite a bit. Hearing the narrator just feels so damn good.

 

My feeling though, and this is just coming from the gut, is that we already have an extremely optimistic take on human history floating around the gaming zeitgeist right now, in Civilization V. It's certainly fine for the Firaxis team making Beyond Earth to transplant that philosophy to their game, but I hope they don't, at least not in the same form, if only because I want this game to be something more than Civilization V in space through tone as well as content. I don't want anything bleak or cynical either, but I'd certainly be more interested in something with a bit more nuance, like Dualhammers said about Alpha Centauri. I don't know why I feel that way exactly, except that human history is a done deal up until this point and therefore a positivist tone makes some sense, but pure optimism in speculative works has a hard time not coming off as pollyannish or saccharine.

[feelthedarkness]

I think you could probably jump off a modern era where pushing "technology" in a pure unrestrained manner doesn't actually work (super) great for majority of your citizenry. Moral application of technology is great, and cool consumer devices are fun, but at the same time many modern tech/internet companies have a handful of employees and massive sums of wealth distorting the world around them and extracting labor's value in the chain.

 

A pure "tech" planet might have a handful of super wealthy, and extremely well defended people, but also a potentially dangerous slave race, and at the same time a populist approach could leave you short in certain areas of expertise.  

[RubixsQube]

When music associated with black people was considered to be inferior, hipsters were the segment of the population that recognized that it was cool and eventually helped it gain popularity (they were tastemakers). 

 

This is a statement that made me tug my collar. 

 

Every conversation about hipsters I've witnessed tends to go along with what's been seen here. Someone calls someone else a "hipster." Generally, this comes from the most basic "definition" of hipster: someone who claims to be into something before it became more well known. There is generally a response of "I don't know what you're talking about I'm not a hipster". Someone comes in and says that the word hipster has no meaning. Someone says that the only people who hate the word "hipster" are hipsters. People provide weird vague definitions of the word that tend to use the word "cool" a lot. Someone references beatniks.

 

I just want people to stop lumping people into weird behavioral boxes. It felt gross growing up to have people call me names, and it feels gross when people still call each other names now. I've said this before in this very forum, but if someone wants to listen to vinyl, or ride a fixed gear bicycle, or be really into like, 19th-century ship ropemaking or whatever, let them. If they happen to think they're cooler than you because of it, let them continue thinking that. What do you care what other people think?

 

Clyde, you wrote "It's the hipster-curse. I have often had moments where I ask myself 'Do I want to tell them how I know about this? Or should I just nod because they won't believe me and they'll think I'm just trying to impress them with what (understandably) sounds like braggart-lies?' ". If someone asks you how you know about some band, or a video game, or a movie, and you know it because you care about things, let them know! You don't have to sound like a braggart if you don't want to! Let them know the ways that you find your music, or your games. Chris was pointing out an astounding coincidence on the podcast that the game Jake brought up was shown to him by a fan, who was developing it. There is zero subtext to that. The easiest way to fight worrying about this "hipster curse" is just raw, pure enthusiasm. 

[Bjorn]

Hipsters are out.  Super Hipsters are where it's at.  They're like hipsters, but super. 

[Twig]

If clyde self-identifies as a hipster (which, if I'm not misunderstanding things, he does), who are you, RubixsQube, to say "don't do that"? Maybe that's not what you intended, but that's basically how I read your post.

 

This came up pretty recently on these forums in some thread, but... I grew up being called a nerd. People meant it as an insult. It's one of the few words that never bothered me. I am a nerd, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Hell, I even take a little bit of pride in that. It might be an insult for some, but for me it's a matter of identity. Why can't "hipster" be the same way? I call my friends nerds all the time, and I definitely don't mean it pejoratively. It's almost a term of friendship-endearment for me!

[clyde]

Clyde, you wrote "It's the hipster-curse. I have often had moments where I ask myself 'Do I want to tell them how I know about this? Or should I just nod because they won't believe me and they'll think I'm just trying to impress them with what (understandably) sounds like braggart-lies?' ". If someone asks you how you know about some band, or a video game, or a movie, and you know it because you care about things, let them know! You don't have to sound like a braggart if you don't want to! Let them know the ways that you find your music, or your games. Chris was pointing out an astounding coincidence on the podcast that the game Jake brought up was shown to him by a fan, who was developing it. There is zero subtext to that. The easiest way to fight worrying about this "hipster curse" is just raw, pure enthusiasm.

You are probably right, I shouldn't gate information like that. But still, I already have a tendency to talk about myself too much during conversations. Sometimes it seems like mentioning how I got hipped to something will stop the other person from telling me about their experience with it.

But at the same time, I wince at the potential sense of betrayal I'll receive when it comes up. "Why didn't you tell me!"

Not only am I a hipster and a snob, but I'm also narcissistic.

[Badfinger]

The new pejorative use sounds a lot like the old pejorative use; either way it's coming from squares. Hipsters are the spear-head of the mainstream. They are the first to recognize that the unacknowledged is actually cool. They do this largely because the currently popular does not satisfy them, so they seek out otherness. When music associated with black people was considered to be inferior, hipsters were the segment of the population that recognized that it was cool and eventually helped it gain popularity (they were tastemakers). Back then, "hipster" was both used by people-in-the-know to self-identify and by squares to demean. At least, that's what wikipedia says.

So basically, if you use hipster as a pejorative then you are a square. If you use hipster as a superlative, then you are a hipster.

Edit:

This sounds like a braggart-lie, but it just happened without me seeking it out (so whatever):

An 86 year old jazz-musician who I happen to know just came by and. I asked him what "hipster" means. He basically said "People that like jazz." I asked him if there was a racial connotation, he said "No." For the record, he is white.

 

This is a really self-indulgent way to try to put a name on something that's not actually a group in any cohesive fashion and kind of repulsive to me. I love jazz! I am not a hipster.

[clyde]

This is a really self-indulgent way to try to put a name on something that's not actually a group in any cohesive fashion and kind of repulsive to me.

I don't understand.

[tegan]

Ahem:

 

This is from the same TV show that ended its run by having every character die in an ice age, huddled together for warmth.

[Chris]

Super cool thread

[Nappi]

It seems that this topic has been discussed several times already. Maybe we should have a separate Hipster thread in the Idle Banter.

[chummer]

This is from the same TV show that ended its run by having every character die in an ice age, huddled together for warmth.

 

One would say it had a super cool ending. 

 

csimiami.gif

[Stuart]

That's super .

[Dewar]

This is from the same TV show that ended its run by having every character die in an ice age, huddled together for warmth.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/dinosaurs-the-most-traumatizing-series-finale-ever

 

I had no idea.... What....?

[Blambo]

Maybe it's a west-coast/east-coast difference. The typical usage I see is exemplified by this example:

Person 1 says "Have you heard of [band-name]? They are awesome!"

Person 2 says "I used to listen to them before they got famous."

Person 1 says "You are such a hipster."

Maybe it's different on the west-coast, either way I love the word "hipster". In the 50's there there were Beats. In the early 21st century, there are hipsters. It's used as a pejorative by the muggles, but some of us (i.e. "Hipsters") own the term and take pride in it. It basically means "tastemaker" to me, but people have differing reactions to the concept of tastemakers existing.

 

Yeah when I hear it like that, it always seems like the term's being used as a comment on the idea that getting in on something before it's popular has inherent value. Like it's describing an attitude rather than a specific group of interests, which has been interpreted as a sense of superiority. I dunno.

 

SIGNIFICANT EDIT: I read the rest of the thread, and I do not condone or approve of grouping people this way

[clyde]

SIGNIFICANT EDIT: I read the rest of the thread, and I do not condone or approve of grouping people this way

I'm interested in hearing why, but Nappi is right, it deserves its own thread.

https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/9336-hipsters/#entry288109

[CaptainFish]

I used to watch Dinosaurs on the Family channel after it's initial run. I'm only just now realizing what a preposterously expensive and skilled production it was.

[Gormongous]

I used to watch Dinosaurs on the Family channel after it's initial run. I'm only just now realizing what a preposterously expensive and skilled production it was.

 

I'm rewatching Farscape right now and actually getting pretty nostalgic for that odd period in the nineties when computer effects were still seen as hokey and expensive practical-effect TV was a viable way to grab audiences.

[bkbroiler]

Sean coming in at the end scared the hell out of me, too. Especially since sometimes I still mix his voice up with Jake's, so at first I was freaked out and then I thought maybe it was just Jake talking and then I freaked out again because it sounded SO much like Sean... because it was him. Surprise podcast hosts with no introduction should be banned by podcast law.

[monkehhh]

I just popped Civ 5 on to finally check it out after listening to the cast, now it's 6 hours later somehow.

[Niyeaux]

"Canada always makes the arms" had me laughing pretty hard. It's true!

[clyde]

I just popped Civ 5 on to finally check it out after listening to the cast, now it's 6 hours later somehow.

Are you playing with the expansions? Is this your first Civilization game?

[monkehhh]

Are you playing with the expansions? Is this your first Civilization game?

It's my first since 1 or 2 (and the old Colonization) - should I get some expansions on top of the vanilla game?

[clyde]

It's my first since 1 or 2 (and the old Colonization) - should I get some expansions on top of the vanilla game?

I would play through vanilla once. Then just buy Brave New World (Gods &Kings is included) because it makes the game ao much more deep in a good way. The religion system, World Congress, and spy system all come together to make the game intriguing. The reason I recommend vanilla first is that the base-game has enough to learn during the first playthrough.

Now when I play I'm just chomping at the bit for the World Congress to start. It's my favorite part.

[monkehhh]

Sounds good, I definitely want to play some more. I'll keep my eye out for a cheap code for Brave New World (there's one on Amazon UK that is pennies) - I actually got the base game for free from someone over on Eurogamer, super good.