Conspiracy; Open your eyes sheeple

[clyde]

I really enjoyed the discussion SyntheticGerbil started in the Life thread, but I'm late to the party and I hope a separate thread will encourage the discussion more. There was some posts before this one, but it's a fine place to start.

I absolutely love following conspiracy theories. Not because I believe in them, but more as another form of fiction, a sort of "what-if" version of events. "What if the government actually did cause 9/11?" is just an interesting thing to think about, but not something to take seriously.

I will admit that it wasn't always that way with me, and for a period I did believe a lot of these weird conspiracy theories... then it was around the time I basically sat down and played the first two Metal Gear Solid's back-to-back that I made some connections between the obviously bullshit fiction stories of MGS1&2, and the theories I'd been reading about, and I had a bit of a shift in perspective, where suddenly what I had been reading as "fact" I now couldn't help but look at as if it were part of a Metal Gear game, and it really sort of threw me out of the beliefs I had at the time. It seems a little silly to say that playing those games helped change me, but that's kind of exactly what happened. They went from seeming real and secretive and exciting to all seeming kind of silly.

I think of conspiracy theories as modern day mythologies; it's folklore. Of course people can take it tok seriously and get find themselves living in a root-cellar holding a shotgun and a short-wave radio, but I suspect that's a confluence of challenges that they need to address in their personal lives. Don't let them ruin it for all of us.

One thing that strikes me about comspiracy theories is that there's this incredibly obtuse funnel between agency and influence; one group controlling it all. As if a group has an easy time agreeing on anything. I kinda like the idea that there is a secret-society that thinks it is controlling everything in its delusion of grandeur and that they happened to be at CES buying the largest television display so tha they can put a giant map of the world on it with some blinking dots and have skype calls with people in dark rooms. Someone HAS to be doing that right now.

[Bjorn]

I also share a love of conspiracy theories, alien theories, ancient earth theories and the paranormal, even though I don't actually believe in any of it.  It's fun! 

 

I used to have a job that required that I regularly work until 2 a.m.  The only thing I miss about it is the convenience of listening to Coast to Coast AM.  I've tried listening to the podcast in the years since, but there's something that makes that show work when it's the middle of the night, it's dark, you're alone, often driving.  It's not the same in a brightly lit office in the middle of the day with my wife across the room from me.  I suppose there is some good symbolism there about how the topics of that show rarely hold up to the light of day. 

 

Dovetailing on your last point, every single business, organization or government office I have spent significant time around has a level of dysfunction and disorganization that boggles my mind.  It often amazes me that anything ever gets done, anywhere.

[Gormongous]

Dovetailing on your last point, every single business, organization or government office I have spent significant time around has a level of dysfunction and disorganization that boggles my mind.  It often amazes me that anything ever gets done, anywhere.

 

Being a professional historian, I feel the same way about historical/educational conspiracies. Our understanding of history changes so drastically every decade that it's laughable when someone tries to tell me that either A) something that happened in the past has been covered up, or a cabal of historians and politicians has manufactured a single "official" interpretation of events. For the first, there's a ton we don't know, but we're more likely to know it the more important it was. There's no way to hide a war or a coup or whatever. For the second, historical consensus is broken all the time. In fact, it's the best way to make a name as a historian.

 

The best is when someone reads something, like Frankopan's new book on the First Crusade, and thinks that they've found some secret thing hidden from the public on purpose, when really it's been accepted in academic circles for half a century but no one could sell a book on it.

 

Actually, global publishing/media conspiracies are the most believable to me. You know, robber barons and the telegraph, all that.

[Merus]

Oh, actual conspiracies exist. My mum ran across one, it's not that hard for two groups to say 'we'll scratch your back and you scratch ours', and then you have a conspiracy.

 

But conspiracies where everyone is in on it are fucking ridiculous. You can usually tell when you have found an actual conspiracy because everyone starts getting really sketchy and avoiding the subject because they're so surprised that anyone noticed.

[Roderick]

But how is The Secreeeeeeet (whispering) not proof of a worldwide conspiracy to keep us all in the blind?

[Hermie]

Oh, actual conspiracies exist. My mum ran across one, it's not that hard for two groups to say 'we'll scratch your back and you scratch ours', and then you have a conspiracy.

 

Oh, definitely. My department at work just had what is looking more and more like a coup, Game of Thrones style, where 4 people lost their jobs.

[syntheticgerbil]

B-but I don't really enjoy the overreaching conspiracy theories besides the initial shock of the "what the fuck?!" factor.

 

Like the first time someone explained Reptilians to me because SOMEONE IN THE OFFICE BELIEVED IN THEM AND TRIED TO GET OTHERS TO BELIEVE was just insane. I went on Youtube to find everyone's proof of these evil reptiles living behind holograms of real people but was disappointing after the first one because they are all so god damn long winded. Why can't people make 30 second videos on New World Order and Illuminati type conspiracy theories for bitesize consumption? Then I might have more fun.

[Zeusthecat]

Reptites are real to me dammit!

[clyde]

I hadn't heard about the repitilian shape-shifters before. As I look through some of Youtube evidence, I enjoy the idea that people are ecstatic when their electronic devices begin to wear enough that the truth can be revealed during non-optimal playback or they may be intentionally bending their consumer electronics to separate the illusion from the reality. 

Is the idea that loud noises can distort the illusion an accepted part of the myth? This is some great fiction. Now I want a game where you play as a dj who makes some sick beats and accidentally discovers that the crowd is actually 70% reptilian. Then she walks around with an air-horn and goes Bphew! Bphew! Bphew! Bphew! at tattoo-parlors to reveal the infiltrators. This could be the next Twilight.


The Secret World is on sale today, this conversation is making me consider it.

[Zeusthecat]

The other day I was wondering where the abbreviation O.K. came from and what it stood for. When I Googled it I discovered that it partially came from Martin van Buren's nickname. Since Martin van Buren is a great great great great great great grand uncle of mine (my mother's maiden name is van Buren) I have always been mildly interested whenever I hear his name come up so I clicked a link and started reading about him. Then I discovered a great conspiracy that rocked the foundations of my belief system: Martin van Buren was born exactly 202 years before I was down to the day; 2+0+2=4; my daughter is four years old and she has a brother who will be 1 this year; 4-1=3; Half-Life 3 confirmed.

[TheLastBaron]

The other day I was wondering where the abbreviation O.K. came from and what it stood for. When I Googled it I discovered that it partially came from Martin van Buren's nickname. Since Martin van Buren is a great great great great great great grand uncle of mine (my mother's maiden name is van Buren) I have always been mildly interested whenever I hear his name come up so I clicked a link and started reading about him. Then I discovered a great conspiracy that rocked the foundations of my belief system: Martin van Buren was born exactly 202 years before I was down to the day; 2+0+2=4; my daughter is four years old and she has a brother who will be 1 this year; 4-1=3; Half-Life 3 confirmed.

This was better than anything in The Number 23.

[syntheticgerbil]

So is the O.K. a group of underground reptiles? When is the end coming?

[Bjorn]

There are people who believe that Slender Man is real, and that any claims to the contrary are just lame efforts of a cover up. 

 

The interview is mostly about how the creator feels about the public nature of Slender Man, and his semi-desire to control his creation, but does have some gems of call ins from Coast-to-Coast.

[Twig]

There are people who believe that Slender Man is real, and that any claims to the contrary are just lame efforts of a cover up. 

whaaaaaaaat

[osmosisch]

I think of conspiracy theories as modern day mythologies; it's folklore.

That's pretty much the thesis of one of the recent You Are Not So Smart episodes. A very fun listen.

[Dewar]

Night terrors man. The same place that at least some of the UFO myths come from.

[subbes]

I absolutely love the concept of Numbers Stations.  I bought the Conet Project CD set and, stupidly, decided to listen to it alone in the car during a 10-hour drive in the dead of winter. 

 

 

I suggest you not do this, especially if you are prone to anxiety, worry, or paranoia.  You will be unsettled for weeks.

[Merus]

9/11 conspiracy theories are in the news!

 

Although someone pointed out to me how sublimely ridiculous calling for 'the truth' behind the World Trade Centre attacks is: if 'the truth' was revealed, it still wouldn't be the worst thing that administration did. The US government lied to the American people and the world? Yeah, we know. They killed thousands of Americans in perpetuating this lie? Yeah, and Afghanis, and Iraqis. I mean, they managed to make America the closest thing to a fascist state possible while still being a democracy, tortured (and justified torture), and held foreign nationals in unaccountable prisons charged with nebulous crimes - and you think that 9/11 is the outrage?

[Zeusthecat]

9/11 conspiracy theories are in the news!

 

Although someone pointed out to me how sublimely ridiculous calling for 'the truth' behind the World Trade Centre attacks is: if 'the truth' was revealed, it still wouldn't be the worst thing that administration did. The US government lied to the American people and the world? Yeah, we know. They killed thousands of Americans in perpetuating this lie? Yeah, and Afghanis, and Iraqis. I mean, they managed to make America the closest thing to a fascist state possible while still being a democracy, tortured (and justified torture), and held foreign nationals in unaccountable prisons charged with nebulous crimes - and you think that 9/11 is the outrage?

Yeah, thanks Obama.

[Bjorn]

I absolutely love the concept of Numbers Stations.  I bought the Conet Project CD set and, stupidly, decided to listen to it alone in the car during a 10-hour drive in the dead of winter. 

 

 

I suggest you not do this, especially if you are prone to anxiety, worry, or paranoia.  You will be unsettled for weeks.

 

I knew about Numbers Stations, but had never heard of the Conet Project.  That's some fascinating stuff.  I see you can download it for free from their site.  Tempting...

 

What are the odds that my wife will kill me if I try to play any amount of this while being stuck in a small office with her?

 

Edited: Nevermind, I listened to some tracks online.  I'm not sure I could listen to it for more than a few minutes at a time without going a little batty.

[James]

They killed thousands of Americans in perpetuating this lie? Yeah, and Afghanis, and Iraqis.

You seem to be confused: those other people are un-American.

Seriously, though, it's a depressing reality that on the whole people just don't feel as strongly about the plight of people from far-away places. There can be a horrendous disaster abroad, and the news will tell us how many Brits are believed to be involved, even when it's a tiny portion. I don't know, I suppose it's relevant information, but it always strikes me as a bit tasteless. Anyway, the point is that people can be aware of and pretty much comfortable with all sorts of heinous shit going on globally, but once it's happening on home turf and to their people, suddenly it's a world-ending outrage.

In other words, people have double standards, which is obvious and everyone is well aware of. This post is pointless.

[Bjorn]

Bill Hicks faked his own death under orders from the CIA and transformed himself into Alex Jones.

[namman siggins]

I was just reading about that! Haha, I love it.

I'm a sucker for conspiracy theories: not believing them, but finding and reading and seeing their evolution through the ages. Seeing age old CTs adapt and swallow other theories/creepypastas because of the Internet is fascinating; what's was somewhat a "straightforward" CT, becomes this kaleidoscopic thing because of its ability to swallow and be swallowed by other theories.

[tberton]

Anybody interested in conspiracy theories should read Foucault's Pendulum, a novel about people getting sucked so deeply into a conspiracy theory of their own invention that it ends up being real.

[brkl]

I need to read it again. Wonderful book, very weird and forward thinking.