Conspiracy; Open your eyes sheeple

[Bjorn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eDovdtImmjk

[Dewar]

5000 troll comments hmm? So now it's scientists that are crapping up the internet.

[Cordeos]

I can't find a good link for it, but there are theories that the Moon either doesn't exist or was created recently. Mind Boggled.

[Bjorn]

5000 troll comments hmm? So now it's scientists that are crapping up the internet.

 

Scientists are part of the conspiracy to ruin the Internet and discredit conspiracy theorists. 

 

 

 

Also, that study sounds kind of terrible.  Is it really ethical for scientists to use the public as guinea pigs without their consent?  I generally thought that was frowned upon.  I also got to thinking about the rampant right wing conspiracy theories (birthers, benghazi, ebola), and how one part of society gets labeled specifically as "conspiracy theorists" while another part that engages in exactly the same behavior generally doesn't. 

[Deadpan]

Conspiracy theories are fascinating from a Cultural Studies point of view. They're like a modern day animism, except instead of concerning itself with the secret inner life of rocks and trees, they tend to operate from the assumption that the incomprehensible systems that govern our lives (economics, bureaucracy, society etc) are living organisms rather than incredibly complex machines. So instead of things happening because a million little wheels mesh into each other, with no individual actor aware of the big picture, they happen because of the conscious decision of some grand intelligence that's probably - as part of a self-centered world-view - out to get you, specifically.

 

It's a pretty flattering way to make sense of existential dread, really. You aren't suffering because of the apathy of an uncaring cosmos, but because things are designed to screw you over. Which may be bad, but at least it means that everything that happens to you is meaningful in some way.

[clyde]

Indeed, there is an element of self-centeredness in conspiracy theories but not only in personifying great machinations as your personal antagonist. To me, the weirdest part is that there are actual conspiracies that have plenty of evidence and are far more nefarious that something like faking a moon-landing (or a faking the moon itself I guess), but conspiracy theorist are invested in you believing their wild ideas; it's about whether or not you believe them. They don't want to know the truth, they want to believe something kinda off mainstream and have someone else trust them enough to believe it too. It's a companionship/attention thing.

[Ninety-Three]

Conspiracy theories are fascinating from a Cultural Studies point of view. They're like a modern day animism, except instead of concerning itself with the secret inner life of rocks and trees, they tend to operate from the assumption that the incomprehensible systems that govern our lives (economics, bureaucracy, society etc) are living organisms rather than incredibly complex machines. So instead of things happening because a million little wheels mesh into each other, with no individual actor aware of the big picture, they happen because of the conscious decision of some grand intelligence that's probably - as part of a self-centered world-view - out to get you, specifically.

 

It's a pretty flattering way to make sense of existential dread, really. You aren't suffering because of the apathy of an uncaring cosmos, but because things are designed to screw you over. Which may be bad, but at least it means that everything that happens to you is meaningful in some way.

 

That made me realize that some people talk about the government as though it's a conspiracy theory. Not "The government faked the moon landing because reptilian aliens", but when some people talk about societal problems, they talk about them as though they're the deliberate product of a massively organized system, or a singular anthropomorphized Mr. Government, instead of a million little wheels. To give an example, I remember this quote from an article around the time of Ferguson and similar shootings:

 

What was so baffling and depressing about those stories was that grand juries refused to even let the cases go to trial, in order to preserve privilege, it was crucial to preserve the image of who is a criminal and who is an authority.

 

In the past I'd always figured that sort of thinking was a product of anthropomorphizing systems, but there's merit to the conspiracy explanation where people are just trying to map order and function onto a random and emergent system.

 

 

 

For actual conspiracy theories, I never liked the "Conspiracy theories are a way of imposing comforting order on an uncaring universe" explanation, because there are a lot of conspiracy theories which serve to only generate worry about something normally benign. Chemtrails, lizard people, the moon landing, these sorts of conspiracies take something orderly and unremarkable and tell us "It's out to get you", our world has been made strictly worse by the introduction of the conspiracy. Those seem just as common as the "reassuring, in a way" theories, so the driving force behind conspiracy theories can't be the desire to resolve the problem of an uncaring world. One could say that there are two types of theories, and only one type is about the uncaring world, but that seems wrong because the uncaring world theories have so many common elements with the other theories that there is clearly some common human drive behind them.

 

I have no particularly good ideas as to what that drive might be, but do you agree that there appears to be commonality between most conspiracy theories, and explaining the uncaring world can't be it?

[Deadpan]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily take that lesson from it. Linguistically, there's a certain tendency to just words in a symbolic pars-pro-toto way just because it's easier to do - people who say the white house did or said that, for instance, generally aren't thinking of an actual moving, talking house. Not all antropomorphizing or projection that takes place in language and in our heads is necessarily pathologic on that level, although it is probably worth it to think about these mechanisms on a larger level than just fake moon cults.

 

I think you're being too quick in dismissing the explanation of comfort over the surface-level appearance of constant worry. I didn't mean to imply that that's the surface level result of them, or that the meaning people find would be uplifiting, but it can still work out that way unconsciously. Nervous ticks, for instance, also have the appearance of making everything worse for the people who suffer from them, but somewhere on a deeper psychological level, they're still generally tied to defense mechanisms that serve to stabilize their conscious self in some way. It might seem counterintuitive that it would ever seem preferable to compulsively wash your hands or think the government is run by lizard people, but if the alternative is confronting some heavy emotional stuff...

[Gormongous]

I think you're being to quick in dismissing the explanation of comfort over the surface-level appearance of constant worry. I didn't mean to imply that that's the surface level result of them, or that the meaning people find would be uplifiting, but it can still work out that way unconsciously. Nervous ticks, for instance, also have the appearance of making everything worse for the people who suffer from them, but somewhere on a deeper psychological level, they're still generally tied to defense mechanisms that serve to stabilize their conscious self in some way. It might seem counterintuitive that it would ever seem preferable to compulsively wash your hands or think the government is run by lizard people, but if the alternative is confronting some heavy emotional stuff...

 

I agree. As distressing as it is for the economy to be in shambles, it's less distressing in the broader scale of things, strictly speaking, if the cause of that was concerted, malicious, and secretive government action, rather than a massive, unknowable, and unpredictable array of factors reaching back centuries and across the globe. One of those is manageable, even just in the narrowest sense of the word, and the other is truly uncontrollable. There's a type of mentality that'll reach for the most upsetting and improbable explanation to a situation if it's the only one that gives said situation a singular cause to blame and perhaps eliminate.

 

In other words, it's a lot less distressing for some people to claim that the US government, already a massive and powerful entity, engineered 9/11 to get even more massive and seize even more power, than to acknowledge that being a superpower means something different now and that ideologies have started to fight each other more frequently through other means than outright wars.

[Mangela Lansbury]

http://harddawn.com/leonard-nimoy-seize-control-of-illuminati/

Conspiracy theorists ask the hard hitting questions the rest of us are ignoring -- like did Leonard Nimoy fake his own death so he could seize control of the illuminati?

This is the dumbest conspiracy theory I've seen in a while. I also have a hard time telling if conspiracy theory sites are jokes or not, so this might just be a joke???

[Griddlelol]

http://www.naturalnews.com/

 

Just don't spend too long there.

[Ninety-Three]

http://harddawn.com/leonard-nimoy-seize-control-of-illuminati/

Conspiracy theorists ask the hard hitting questions the rest of us are ignoring -- like did Leonard Nimoy fake his own death so he could seize control of the illuminati?

This is the dumbest conspiracy theory I've seen in a while. I also have a hard time telling if conspiracy theory sites are jokes or not, so this might just be a joke???

 

Other aritcles on the site:

 

Many Atheists Believe That Eating Puppy Fetuses Will Cure Their Sexual Impotency. Here’s Why They’re Wrong

Are Militant Atheists Using Chemtrails to Poison the Angels in Heaven?

Is the Supertall Building Trend a Plot By the 1% to Create Alien Airship Docking Stations?

I'm pretty sure it's a joke.

[SuperBiasedMan]

The problem with any joke conspiracy site is that invariably there are people who can entirely take it seriously if they stumble upon it.

[Akidu]

http://www.naturalnews.com/

 

Just don't spend too long there.

ohhh man. I was exusted after half the front page. 

Theres a whole search system including a section where you can find out about "harmful" medical treatments.

http://science.naturalnews.com/index-Harmful_Therapies.html

Its pretty gross, the site says its powered by google which implies the results are going to be global. But the results are all completely rigged.

I searched homeopathy and was linked to studies exlusively pro homeopathy.  "by Faculty of Homeopathy"  Sureeee.

I can see how people are missled so easily by this place, its all the presentation of a well put together Scientific website but with none of the actual science.

[Deadpan]

Do you mean people will think that the thing itself is real or that it's a real conspiracy that other people believe in? Or both?

[Akidu]

Im not sure what you mean. I meant that people will think that theres real scientfic consensus on any given query because it appears they are searching the web when really they are being directed to a specific few articles.

[Cordeos]

Why I have a hard time believing in conspiracies: The more complicated it gets the greater the chance that someone will fail to tow the line. For example after Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine Russian State TV showed a photoshopped image of a Ukranian Jet shooting down the plane: 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11232683/Russia-says-MH17-was-shot-down-by-plane-missiles.html

 

Just recently the company that makes BUK surface to air missiles came out to say that one of their older missiles was used to shoot down the plane, but since they haven't made that missile in a while they would like to be off the sanctions list please.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11646958/Missile-maker-could-blow-up-passenger-jet-to-prove-MH17-not-downed-by-Russian-weapon.html

 

This kind of evidence faking and covering up just cannot work at the scale of world events. To many individuals and organizations are involved and it is hard to maintain a single story in that situation. 

[Bjorn]

This kind of evidence faking and covering up just cannot work at the scale of world events. To many individuals and organizations are involved and it is hard to maintain a single story in that situation. 

 

That's what they want you to believe.

[Mangela Lansbury]

There are actually some really great articles about how effective Russian propaganda has been in the last few years. They fabricate complete lies, which are covered by western media for various reasons (point-counterpoint style reporting, the push to provide "both sides" of a story, etc) and then enter the world consciousness with high legitimacy despite being recognized as complete fabrications.

I'll try to find the specific people who cover that and/or the stuff I listened to and read about it after work, if anyone wants. I think I just found it all through Blogs of War and Lawfare, or maybe some links from people at Jihadology.

[Cordeos]

There are actually some really great articles about how effective Russian propaganda has been in the last few years. They fabricate complete lies, which are covered by western media for various reasons (point-counterpoint style reporting, the push to provide "both sides" of a story, etc) and then enter the world consciousness with high legitimacy despite being recognized as complete fabrications.

I'll try to find the specific people who cover that and/or the stuff I listened to and read about it after work, if anyone wants. I think I just found it all through Blogs of War and Lawfare, or maybe some links from people at Jihadology.

 

 

NYT just had an article about one of the Russian Troll farms: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

 

I would also point to Jack Warner of FIFA who, after saying he was innocent is now going to try and save his bacon by selling everyone else down the river. self interest > protecting your co-conspirators. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-33002674

[Deadpan]

I was referring to what SuperBiasedMan said and didn't notice a new post had popped up. Sorry about the confusion.

[SuperBiasedMan]

I meant that people will believe they're real conspiracies, but I like that you flipped it to be on the other side.

[SuperBiasedMan]

I meant that people will believe they're real conspiracies, but I like that you flipped it to be on the other side.

[clyde]

So has anyone heard viable explanations for why tech-capital is moving into space-rockets? Are they planning on building their mansions out there or what? Maybe I'm just short-sighted and provencial, but I have a hard time understanding where they are expecting return on investment from.

[Cordeos]

So has anyone heard viable explanations for why tech-capital is moving into space-rockets? Are they planning on building their mansions out there or what? Maybe I'm just short-sighted and provencial, but I have a hard time understanding where they are expecting return on investment from.

 

Elon Musk seems to really like space and appears to be genuinely interested in making getting stuff into space cheaper. There is a ton of money in satellite launches. If SpaceX gets their reusable first stage working they can cut the costs of a rocket launch significantly, thus taking a ton of business away from Lockheed, Boeing etc. and pocketing part of the difference. Elon really wants to die on Mars i guess. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/tech/2013/03/elon-musk-die-mars

 

More generally some of the companies working on space technology looks like pure investor baiting. "Look at us we are such a futuristic company we are doing stuff IN SPACE". 

 

Planetary Resources is also a very interesting company. There is definitely an argument for extracting metal from asteroids being easier than from the earth. Might end up being the greener option if we can figure out how to green up space fuel.

 

Also there is this nutty reddit post more in keeping with the theme of this thread: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/2swit1/real_life_elon_musks_ulterior_motive_for/

EDIT: also this: http://www.imotortimes.com/tesla-conspiracy-theory-fliers-san-francisco-claim-congress-manipulation-and-accuse-model-30396