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A Dedicated Thread For Talking About Star Trek Episodes

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22 minutes ago, SecretAsianMan said:

My interest in the Orville is as a spectacle.  I have no expectations of it being good.  The whole thing seems like a very highly produced SNL skit rather than a proper show.

 

Yeah, it's just weird that no one who's reviewed it seems to think that it's that funny, and the Galaxy Quest comparison is largely spoken of as a red herring.

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I saw the third Discovery episode. Michael Burnham staring blankly at everyone and a ton of monologues at the camera. I'm one or two episodes short of quitting if the show doesn't improve.

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On 2.10.2017 at 11:14 PM, unimural said:

The third episode was pretty ok, and while not great I'm more optimistic about this eventually becoming something good. The setup of the ship sounds good for lots of neat episodes.

 

I was really hoping we'd have a more consistent, less all-actions-must-serve-drama Michael Burnham. I suppose I am overly sensitive about portraying logic as either coldness or lack of emotion, but does she have to be written so horribly? She's all over the place. One minute she's supposed to be this Spock-like character: measured, in control and distant. A few minutes later she's supposedly extremely emotional and impulsive. Martin-Green does a good job, I think as both. I just can't buy such a character.

 

What is the character motivation for her saying she just wants to atone by serving her sentence, and then committing crimes, during wartime, on a military science ship: impersonating an officer and breaking into a restricted area? That moment was so baffling, the very definition of illogical behaviour. Plus they didn't do anything with it. They might as well just have shown Stamets or Tilly in there.

 

Perhaps the point is supposed to be that her history of losing her parents and undergoing the Vulcan upbringing damaged her so severely she can't control her impulses under stress, or something. But I think they don't care and just wanted a Vulcan-Kirk.

 

Which does not fill me with confidence with regards to Tilly.

 

 

Tilly! WHY. She's the kind of character I usually like, but she's so overdone. What they're doing with and to Cadet Tilly is more fit for an 80s teenie summer camp movie. I'd much appreciate if they dialed her down 50% at least. Somehow I can't imagine Fuller wrote her like this. :|

 

Concerning Burnham, it's pretty clear what they're attempting, and "two hearts beating in her chest" is pretty difficult to bring across. Martin-Green is excellent in both roles, of course, and I could do with even more "Michael Burnham staring blankly at everyone". Most importantly, I think they're indeed going into the direction to dissolve the boundaries between logic and emotion to a degree, and that should get rid of that logic = coldness equation as well. Already we've heard that the Vulcans' logical reaction and only answer to the Klingon culture was immediate, reflexive violence. And I believe this purposefully mirrors our present ideological struggle: Should we, as enlightened peaceful human beings, with our superior morals and logic, react to the re-emerging threat of nazism with violence or do we still believe that "going high" will do anything at all to root the ideology out? Just like Michael Burnham, through logic as well as emotion, it's normal for us to come to entirely incompatible conclusions at the very same time, and to feel shame and guilt for either.

 

Concerning Burnham's investigation on the Discovery, it may be as they say: Curiosity killed the Vulcan. B)

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Tilly is basically Reg Barclay, but if he hung around Riker in every episode.

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For the record, after saying upthread that the first episode didn't seem bad, I never had the urge to see the second episode and so never did. Shrugging emoji man.

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I'm still watching Discovery, and there are things I like, but it's disheartening that it feels so shlocky and formulaic in a serialised CSI way. It's super slick, but very paint by-numbers. You can see the dialogue and twists coming a mile away. I'm getting bored. I find myself actually missing the individual 45-minute stories. This feels like one loooong episode, with very little wonder and few ideas. And, again, the Klingons were always dull. And every 'shit' and 'fuck' feels crowbarred in between the theatrical Trek patter. It fit fine with Twin Peaks S3 (although I thought it was overused there) but here every cuss sounds like a gong - "we're just like you guys, guys! Fuckin' A!✌️"

 

I've actually been going back to Voyager on Netflix. If Discovery isn't scratching my itch then I should probably return to the 400-odd hours of Trek I never got round to after TNG! I had probably watched a dozen episodes of Janeway & co. and was never impressed but I'm near the end of season 2 and it's growing on me. Tuvok, in particular, is a great character. I just watched a crazy episode with Michael McKean playing Fear incarnate in a weird psychedelic throwback to TOS. I don't know if it was good but it was interesting! And pretty brutal for Trek.

 

Anyway, Discovery. I like the ship. I like Jason Isaacs, although the ends-justify-means angle feels so tired. Saru's alright.

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Up to date again, and despite some misgivings, what sticks out to me is how much fun I'm having. Every episode has at least one neat little scifi idea going on, the characters are growing on me, and the latest ep had a very very very old acquaintance checking in, which pleased me.

 

I'm shocked at how easily Starfleet humans win in fisticuffs with Klingons though. Those guys should be physically way out of our league.

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For reasons mostly unknown to me, I'm watching this, I guess because one episode a week does not take too much time out of my schedule. I can't honestly say I'm enjoying it, with the exception of the latest episode, which despite a few missteps mostly was cool. Thinking back to how shitty most Star Treks were when they were starting off, I don't think it would be crazy to hold out hope that this turns into a pretty good show some time down the line. It's not there yet, though.

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Season 2 of Discovery has been confirmed, and the last episode (5, I think) was easily the best of the lot for me. The Sarek thread is tied in quite nicely with established Trek. They presented (for the first time really) a decent reason for setting it when they have. I'm still not sure it's a good enough hook to hang the whole show on, but it brings up some nice human (well, Vulcan) drama for Burnham that fits quite neatly in the lore. Lorca gets a little more context too and it feels like a crew is coming together. I might even be able to remember some of their names soon.

 

 

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Finished this block of Discovery today. If you fell off, I'd recommend sticking it out. Episodes 6-9 were all good, with some very good bits. The dialogue is still a bit lumpy (for example, "Saru, I know you're grumpy because we had to transport down 30km from our objective due to tech blocking our tech with tech, but..." - put that shit in the log guys! Use your built-in Trek devices!) but each episode offered some nice character moments and some cool moral quandaries. Episode 7 was a happy return for the time loop which provided an opportunity to spend time with the characters without needing to drive the plot forward at warp 9. I'm actually looking forward to the next batch now.

 

A slow start, despite the slickness, but it's starting to work. Does anyone have a theory as to why Trek can't do a really top-notch pilot?

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I was very happy with the time loop episode! It was silly yet horrific and felt like good ol' Trek.

 

(Michael Burnham is still kind of boring though. It was okay in the first few episode, but she's already boring me with her slow-burn character arc.)

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2 hours ago, dartmonkey said:

Does anyone have a theory as to why Trek can't do a really top-notch pilot?

 

Well, it's not like any Trek series (possible exception TOS) really gets going for a fair while, so I think the more pertinent question may be "why does each Trek series take so long to figure out what it is?"

 

I agree with everyone that Disco is definitely picking up now. The mid-season finale (I assume) was cracking, at least for the first half.

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TOS really does hit the ground running no matter which episode you consider the first one. The original unaired pilot, The Cage? Awesome. The second pilot, Where No Man Has Gone Before? Super Awesome. The first episode to actually air, The Man Trap? A totally solid episode of Star Trek.

 

Emissary (DS9) is pretty good too.

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I just finished the first season of the Orville and really enjoyed it.  I was expecting only to watch a couple episodes, mainly because the marketing makes it sound like decidedly bad comedy that I could only stomach for so long, but after about the third episode the show makes a more serious transition and starts to find it's groove.  The show remains lighthearted for the most part but in many other respects it felt like a love letter to the next generation, where many of the episodes end on a question.  I agree the tone can be all over the place, but I don't see this as a negative necessarily.  Each episode stands on it's own and there doesn't seem to be an overarching goal of the series, which admittedly messes with the pacing but allows the show to have a broad range of topics to explore.  I've only seen the first two episodes of discovery, and it's a bit so-so for me at the moment.  I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the season though, the plot is interesting enough and from what I'm hearing it picks up at about the midway point.  I get why the comparisons are made between the two shows, but to me they don't seem like they're trying to be competitors.  The Orville both structurally and tonally seems born out of classic star trek, while discovery is more in line with the JJ Abrams version of star trek which feels like it's own thing entirely.  I really don't see the reason why these two shows are pitted against one another (maybe they were in the same timeslot?) as it seems to me like they aren't really comparable on more than a surface level.  Personally I'm just happy that there are 2 star trek style things on tv now that I can watch.

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All of Discovery is now on on Amazon, and you can get a 3 day free trial if you are up for binging

EDIT: Oops its still broadcasting I guess? So there are two more episodes not on amazon yet, I blew my 3 day free subscription :(

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I guess I forgot to post here after finishing it a couple weeks back, but I watched all of The Orville and I really liked it.  Basically everything itsamoose said.  I'm interested to see what they do from here.  I've watched zero episodes of Discovery and have no interest in watching any, but The Orville is right up my alley and I like that both shows are doing different things and hopefully they can co-exist.  Also it's worth noting that I wasn't planning on even watching The Orville until my mom really wanted to watch it (I watched all of TNG/DS9/Voyager with her) and she as a 65 year old woman loved it.  

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On 11/24/2017 at 4:56 PM, Salacious Snake said:

TOS really does hit the ground running no matter which episode you consider the first one. The original unaired pilot, The Cage? Awesome. The second pilot, Where No Man Has Gone Before? Super Awesome. The first episode to actually air, The Man Trap? A totally solid episode of Star Trek.

 

Emissary (DS9) is pretty good too.

Maybe its just because I watched TOS after seeing all of TNG, DS9 and VOY but I had a hard time finishing the series. There are only 3 or 4 episodes that I really enjoyed and the first episodes are none of those. Part of the issue is that I find the campyness to be rather  off putting. But I also find the lack of character development in TOS to be offputting, I generally dislike episodic shows where everything/everyone is the same at the end of the episode/season/series as they are at the beginning. The TOS movies do much better at this, Undiscovered Country is my favorite Trek film. 

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10 hours ago, Cordeos said:

Maybe its just because I watched TOS after seeing all of TNG, DS9 and VOY but I had a hard time finishing the series. There are only 3 or 4 episodes that I really enjoyed...

I'm in a similar position. I'm about halfway through season 2 and I ended up watching seasons 1-3 of Voyager instead (which has had some real turkeys too.) I should go back and just finish it.

 

Actually, the newest episode of Discovery made me want to go back. It was good! The story is moving nicely now, although the writing is still cumbersome. If anyone needs encouragement to get back into it, Jonathan Frakes directed the latest ep, Lorca's becoming a touch more Captainly (in the non-bastard tradition of other Capts) and there's a first glimpse of a ship we've seen before in Trek.

 

And if you're a fan of Tilly, she gets some fun stuff to do.

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:27 AM, dartmonkey said:

there's a first glimpse of a ship we've seen before in Trek.

I was blown away (ign.com) by the level of deep nerd lore with this inclusion. The way it reaches across multiple series really got my fan-ganglia quivering.

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I watched The Orville over the weekend and to my surprise I enjoyed it a lot.  I echo what itsamoose and thelastbaron said.  It might be the most Star Trek thing in years.  It's very TNG with bits of Voyager and DS9 here and there but much less clinical.  The dialog and writing in general are fairly crude but nowhere near the level I was expecting given the show's pedigree.  The jokes I found to be hit or miss (mostly miss) but in a way I still kind of like having them there because it makes the crew more relatable and grounded and less like a group of overeducated scientists and philosophers.  Several of the plots are almost direct lifts from other Trek episodes but manage to avoid complete repetition.  Some of the episodes are directed by Trek alumni as well, such as Robert Duncan McNeill (Tom Paris), Jonathan Frakes (Riker), and Brannon Braga (writer, director, producer for TNG and Voyager).  Many of the tropes are in full force such as a non-biological crew member studying humanity, a serious and stoic alien officer, away teams composed entirely of senior staff, a non-interference policy with lesser developed species, etc.

 

Overall I was impressed enough by the show that I look forward to more.

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I've occasionally been tempted to watch it, but I honestly just don't think I could stand Seth MacFarlane for that length of time. Is it pretty focused on him or is it more of an ensemble?

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