Return of the Steam Box!

[osmosisch]

Is that an umbilical cord attached to an ear drum?

Oh, it's so much more than that

 

[Sno]

I love that movie so much.

[darthbator]

Chronenberg devices <3

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existenz

 

It used to be on netflix. It's a crime it's not anymore!!!

 

http://kotaku.com/valves-controller-has-been-tested-here-are-some-impre-1415579308

 

There's some aggregate impressions from people who have actually used it. Based on what Tommy Refenes said it sounds pretty safe. I doubt it will change the world or anything but I think it's neat to see someone trying to do something different with controllers. I attended a talk by immersion haptics where they showed off various motors and talked up their SDK a good bit. There is a good chance that those motors might feel AMAZING. They had motors that could do approximations of what could only be described as "textures". It was in all honestly completely spooky. 

[Sno]

So the touch discs can be programmed to emulate any buttons the game might require and, as i understand it, when you press down on the touch surface, you will feel a "click" from the haptic feedback?

That's not what you need though, you need those raised edges on a button so your thumb can instantly find it.

I am going to remain super, super skeptical of this thing for the time being.
 

[Thrik]

(Or, in trying to make a pad that can be used with games that traditionally aren't played with pads, they've made a pad that can't be used with games that do need a pad.)

 

This is a PC controller designed for PC games. Who cares if it doesn't support games originally designed for console pads? If this thing is comfortable then it's a total non-issue.

As for the comfort level, well that's just a question mark right now. Remo says it feels great due to the feedback, and I'd like to think that Valve — a company that exudes pure quality and is probably the single biggest bastion of excellent PC gaming in my opinion — has put its years of planning and research to good use.

[Thrik]

I just don't see developers putting in the extra work to support the steam controller as well as they do with the Xbox controller. When you've got a 360 controller plugged in, most games that have been developed for the XBox will change the button prompts, and have a button layout specifically considered. They promise the controller will be open to hacking, so I'm sure people will come up with some nice configurations to compensate for direct developer support, but I doubt it'll be as good an experience.

Remo said that it 'just worked' with Broken Age without any additional tweaking. Remember that this is a PC pad, so games that don't support it will invariably be built around keyboards and mice. The beauty of this pad is that it's designed specifically to perfectly emulate those devices without any developer intervention, so any key can be rebound to any button. And if this becomes a significant platform the same way Steam did, developers will surely be fully supporting it.

[Brannigan]

I like that the controller is basically a turntable for your thumbs

[tegan]

I like that the controller is basically a turntable for your thumbs

 

DJ Hero port incoming?

[Sno]

This is a PC controller designed for PC games. Who cares if it doesn't support games originally designs for console pads? If this thing is comfortable then it's a total non-issue.

 

Well hey, i'm just saying, there just happens to be that big thriving indie scene on Steam filled with games that are very much console-influenced and built around gamepads.

Don't underestimate the extent to which the 360's gamepad has become the de facto standard for gamepads on PC. There are absolutely games on Steam designed primarily around gamepads.

[Niyeaux]

Well hey, i'm just saying, there just happens to be that big thriving indie scene on Steam filled with games that are very much console-influenced and built around gamepads.

Don't underestimate the extent to which the 360's gamepad has become the de facto standard for gamepads on PC.

The dude who made Super Meat Boy specifically tried the thing out with some very controller-oriented 2D platformers, including his own game, and says it works quite well.

http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller

[Lu]

Don't underestimate the extent to which the 360's gamepad has become the de facto standard for gamepads on PC. There are absolutely games on Steam designed primarily around gamepads.

 

I think it's apples and oranges. The 360 controller and the Steam controller have set some very different goals and problems for them to solve. The way I see it, this is a device that could make controlling your PC from your couch a whole lot easier. I obviously don't know how practical the Steam controller would be for most stuff and at this point I'm more interested in owning one because it's such a strange idea. Still, it seems like a tool with a different purpose to me.

[Merus]

So the touch discs can be programmed to emulate any buttons the game might require and, as i understand it, when you press down on the touch surface, you will feel a "click" from the haptic feedback?

That's not what you need though, you need those raised edges on a button so your thumb can instantly find it.

 

The clicks aren't just when you press down on it. If there's a range on the disc that's being used as a button, it can click when you put your thumb on it. Apparently Valve are considering modifying the feel of the disc to make this work even better, but the disc actually works as a series of buttons. That's what people are missing, I think - the ABXY buttons are peripheral, and all the haptic talk is to say that they've solved the smartphone button problem by simulating feeling where the buttons are.

 

Guys, you know I'm ready to bitch about Valve at the slightest provocation, but the one thing I know is that if Valve do a big announcement like this it means they've already subjected it to tons and tons of actual people playing actual games. They've already tried it on Dota, and we know they flew in a bunch of developers to test it out as well. I guess I'm once again being contrarian but I looked at the controller announcement and trusted that Valve knew, in this specific instance, what they were doing. There is so much smart stuff announced over the past week: streaming to a TV from another PC, the creation of a hardware category with reference designs that people are free to deviate from, albeit at their peril, having community-sourced controller configs for games that don't support the controller, that, in the unlikely event this thing crashes and burns, will make for a game industry that's just a little bit better than it was last week. 

 

(I guess it also answers my ongoing question of 'what the fuck have Valve been doing with their hundred or so very smart people and essentially unlimited resources' because they just announced an OS, a hardware product category and a revolutionary controller design in a week.)

 

Mark my words, Origin will be working on SteamOS sooner or later. That's the beauty of it: the Steam universe is simple enough for regular joes who just want to play a game, it's an all-encompassing solution, but Valve can't lock everyone into Steam and SteamOS because it's Linux-based so they won't be able to abuse their tremendous power. It's the 3DO/one console vision, except this'll actually work.

[Erkki]

That actually seems super cool, I don't remember Microsoft really advertising that as a feature with that mouse but it certainly would have gotten my interest if they did. That said, the ergonomics of it seem somewhat poor and I don't really need another mouse sitting around the house (I buy like every somewhat-cool looking one I see on sale every three or four months).

The ergonomics aren't bad, actually -- I've used one at work for about a year or so. I really like the mouse, but I still prefer a big, more ergonomically-shaped mouse at home. I wouldn't use the Arc Touch mouse for gaming.

[Sno]

The dude who made Super Meat Boy specifically tried the thing out with some very controller-oriented 2D platformers, including his own game, and says it works quite well.

http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller

He also confirms that the thing i'm worried about is still an issue, even with the haptic feedback.

 

The big problem with touch pads/ touch screens is you never know when you are actually over a button or pressing it. Valve has tried to rectify this by having some adjustable haptic feedback fire when you press one of the circle pads. Throughout my play session the haptic feedback helped with the problem, but wasn’t enough to solve it.

[mikemariano]

I still can't tell how you accelerate in Grand Theft Auto with this controller.  How do you play GTA with a keyboard and mouse?

 

One of the most satisfying things about the Xbox 360 controller is the trigger.  Will I have to slide to accelerate with the Steam controller?

[tberton]

He also confirms that the thing i'm worried about is still an issue, even with the haptic feedback.

 

 

He also mentions that they're considering texturing parts of the touchpads, which would alleviate this problem.

 

I still can't tell how you accelerate in Grand Theft Auto with this controller.  How do you play GTA with a keyboard and mouse?

 

One of the most satisfying things about the Xbox 360 controller is the trigger.  Will I have to slide to accelerate with the Steam controller?

 

The controller still has triggers.

[Niyeaux]

Yeah, it's got big squishy analog triggers, like the ones you use to accelerate in every console driving game.

[Sno]

It has triggers and bumpers like everything else and two further buttons along the inside of each handle, which i do think is pretty cool.

[SecretAsianMan]

I wish it had more buttons on the back.  I want a controller with a bunch of buttons on the rear where I have several fingers, instead of on the front where I have 2 (idle) thumbs.

[Dewar]

Like one of these bad boys?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Gamester-FPS-Master-Controller-Xbox/dp/B0000CO2UR/

 

Man, wierdest controller ever, but I got used to it eventually.

[Badfinger]

I think the intention is that most traditional face button usage is still under your right thumb, using quadrants of the haptic touchscreen.

 

How big is it? That screen is right where the giant XBOX button is on a 360 controller, and perhaps it's just my tiny hands, but that button is very far away and awkward to press for me. In the scale drawing, the thumb pads are 1 1/8" across, and the pad width is almost identical. Educated guess, 2" width for a real thing seems reasonable. With my thumb on the 1" mark of a ruler, I can comfortably get to about 2 3/4" before I have to shift my hand. So I can theoretically get to about the mid of the pad.

 

tl;dr it seems like button mapping is going to be astronomically important to controller usage. People maybe gots to use both thumbs now.

After consideration, am I misinterpreting what you're saying? You can use quadrants of the touchpad themselves as button inputs

 

 

If anyone has used an Android phone, most of them have haptic feedback on their keypads. It's just a nice little bump that you're actually in contact with the screen.

 

vvvvv Twig I hope so too! Just trying to give a context for what haptic feedback actually is. It's a tactile response to a digital input, and is pretty cool and correct implementation can make a weird thing suddenly natural.

[Twig]

It seems like the haptic feedback on these controllers is intended to be a whole lot more sophisticated than "rumble when a button is pressed" like on my phone, but whether or not it succeeds remains to be seen, I suppose.

[sclpls]

The ergonomics aren't bad, actually -- I've used one at work for about a year or so. I really like the mouse, but I still prefer a big, more ergonomically-shaped mouse at home. I wouldn't use the Arc Touch mouse for gaming.

 

I use the Arc Touch when I'm playing games on my laptop, and I haven't had any issues with it. It took awhile to get used to the simulated scroll wheel for a game like L4D2 where you use that to switch items, but otherwise worked perfectly fine.

[darthbator]

How big is it? That screen is right where the giant XBOX button is on a 360 controller, and perhaps it's just my tiny hands, but that button is very far away and awkward to press for me. In the scale drawing, the thumb pads are 1 1/8" across, and the pad width is almost identical. Educated guess, 2" width for a real thing seems reasonable. With my thumb on the 1" mark of a ruler, I can comfortably get to about 2 3/4" before I have to shift my hand. So I can theoretically get to about the mid of the pad.

 

tl;dr it seems like button mapping is going to be astronomically important to controller usage. People maybe gots to use both thumbs now.

After consideration, am I misinterpreting what you're saying? You can use quadrants of the touchpad themselves as button inputs

 

 

If anyone has used an Android phone, most of them have haptic feedback on their keypads. It's just a nice little bump that you're actually in contact with the screen.

 

vvvvv Twig I hope so too! Just trying to give a context for what haptic feedback actually is. It's a tactile response to a digital input, and is pretty cool and correct implementation can make a weird thing suddenly natural.

 

I think you misunderstand. The ability to extrapolate the position of the touch exists on both the touchscreen and the track pads. It is possible to divide up the trackpad into "virtual" buttons. So you can hold it like a normal controller and have "virtual buttons" under your right thumb. 

[Badfinger]

I think you misunderstand. The ability to extrapolate the position of the touch exists on both the touchscreen and the track pads. It is possible to divide up the trackpad into "virtual" buttons. So you can hold it like a normal controller and have "virtual buttons" under your right thumb. 

Yeah I realized that.

 

Still, anything that makes use of the middle screen heavily is going to either be an issue, or you'll be using the controller with different hand placement. The caveat is that if you are say, playing Crusader Kings in 60" glory, as long as the pause option is keyed on to one of the buttons then snap reactions are not going to be needed. Frankly, with Crusader Kings if the thumb pads served as reasonable mousing analogues you'd need about 2 buttons.