Gone Home from The Fullbright Company

[Berzee]

Hanna being a recent example.

 

Welcome To Civilization, Super Soldier. START KISSING PEOPLE. Yeh, I didn't beat that movie. ^_o

 

Personally I'm kind of sick of games about "pirate ships", for example.

 

Yeah, that example of mine was a bit irrelevant here maybe =) Gone Home is so unique for many reasons already, and I'm quite interested to see how it explores the game design challenges of using a highly detailed environment full of Stuff to ground you in a particular setting and help you solve a mystery (I want to see if they manage to make it feel really forensic or if it will end up as more of a classic first-person adventure deal).

[juv3nal]

 

I, for one, am intrigued by the LGBT / ghost story fusion.

 

The 'G' in LGBT stands for ghostsexual

[Nappi]

Mind ign.com'd.

[sclpls]

Good on the Fullbright Company.

[Joewintergreen]

I feel way less good about the Pax I'm going to now

[Merus]

The best bit is that I'm following some of the people on the panel in question: the chair was being a dick and the other panellists thought they were going to be part of a discussion on whether the games industry is too po-faced, which is a completely different discussion. So now they are obligating to address both things and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a trainwreck. (One of the panellists is Rae Johnston. She was briefly celebrated a few months ago when she responded to a jerk questioning her geek credentials because she was wearing a Bioshock Infinite shirt by telling him the ending.)

[Gormongous]

The apologists pouring out of the woodwork to shake their jowls at the mean ol' Fullbright Company for blackening the Penny Arcade name are really getting to me. I don't know what it is, but every controversy surrounding Krahulik and Holkins leaves me sick these days. I just can't believe there are so many people willing to defend the right of a guy who draws pictures on the internet to say cruel and ignorant things whenever he feels like it, without any repercussions.

[Merus]

I had to agree to disagree with my housemate over this, actually. I think he was more upset about Fullbright supposedly abdicating the responsibility to force PA to own up to the hurt they've caused than Gabe getting his feelings hurt, but considering we agreed to disagree I'm reasonably sure that's a misrepresentation of his position.

[Roderick]

I fully support the Fullbright Company in this position. It's a tricky decision to make, but I think you've all made the right one, Steve.

[Berek]

Penny arcades wrote something

http://penny-arcade.com/2013/06/21/well-that-escalated-quickly

 

I'd click on this except I don't really care what these guys have to say anymore. Between this, their gross Kickstarter, and Dickwolves I'm done with PA. And this is from someone who used to visit their site regularly.

[jeremywc]

I'm really proud to see the Fullbright Company do this. If the games industry every hopes to grow up, someone in the room has to start acting like an adult. 

 

For someone who tries to give off the air that he doesn't give a shit what anyone says, Mike seems to get get very defensive in a hurry. Having frequent diarrhea of the mouth often gets dismissed when you're in teens and early 20's, but by 35 you should have learned the value of at least being civil and courteous. It's not about censorship, it's about respect. You can't handle commentary on something deeply personal like gender identity and sexuality the same way you handle commentary on the video games industry. I'll admit there were times in my life when I was younger when I probably would have made similar comments. But then I met people from other walks of life, and learned that I needed to grow, mature, and revise my opinions. And I'm in Texas. I can't think of a single good excuse for a 35 year old living in a progressive area like Seattle to continue holding the same opinions that he does.

 

I think there's a lot of good stuff that PA as a company drives that I enjoy, (Child's Play, Strip Search, Rain-slick games). Penny Arcade has done some good things for the industry. I just want to see Mike and Jerry to start forming some grown up opinions on these issues because I can't continue supporting PA if they don't.

[SecretAsianMan]

I'm one of the people who think the internet is being a little too hard on PA.  I will totally admit they handled this situation (and others in the past) poorly, but I also don't actually believe they're racist/bigots/sexist/whatever.  I'm not excusing them or what was said, but I'm also not going to hold an eternal grudge against them.  I also don't feel bad about going to PAX because to me PAX is more about the community and less about PA.  I say this because I know several Enforcers and they're the ones who are the blood, sweat, and tears of PAX.  I know that simply because it's called the Penny Arcade Expo people are going to be upset about it.  That's totally fine, but I'm not one of those people.

 

All that said, I again want to say that I completely support the Fullbright Company's decision.  Whether or not I agree with their reasons, I admire that they're willing to stand up for their convictions and that says more to me than a demo would (although I still want to play said demo).

[Argobot]

I'm sure that they are nice guys in real life and that none of these comments are born out of actual malice, but the regularity of these kinds of comments from PA has started to wear me down. I had hoped that the whole Dickwolves controversy would be a one time thing, but they continue to use the rather large platform they've been given to say some truly ignorant stuff. You can forgive that up to a point, but I would hope that two grown men who are in charge of a successful business would learn when to keep their mouths shut or how not to have gross opinions.

 

The Fullbright Company is doing a very cool thing here and I wish them all the success in the world. I've been to the past two PAX East conferences and have tickets to PAX Prime, but this whole debacle is seriously making me question why I would to go to another one of these conventions.

[gregbrown]

I'm so glad they're making a stand, because so many people think you can get moral points by expressing qualms and then doing something anyways.

[mikemariano]

I am a proud backer of the Downloadable Content Kickstarter—hearing Jerry and Mike talk to each other during the writing process is fascinating. In the first new episode released to backers, Mike mentioned a Reddit thread by someone coming out to their parents as an atheist. Mike couldn't wrap his head around why that would be a big deal, so Jerry talked him through some of the home and social situations where being a openly non-believer would have a significant impact. It was Mike having a snap judgment reaction and then getting a little perspective.

But Mike's been having that dance for years, and it's understandable that people are sick of putting up with it.

I don't see the connection with Mike's non-deeply held, willfully ignorant beliefs and PAX as a whole, though. Is PAX gross on its own? I have no idea what that crowd is like. Mike is easily ignorable, but a rancid environment is something else.

[Gormongous]

I am a proud backer of the Downloadable Content Kickstarter—hearing Jerry and Mike talk to each other during the writing process is fascinating. In the first new episode released to backers, Mike mentioned a Reddit thread by someone coming out to their parents as an atheist. Mike couldn't wrap his head around why that would be a big deal, so Jerry talked him through some of the home and social situations where being a openly non-believer would have a significant impact. It was Mike having a snap judgment reaction and then getting a little perspective.

But Mike's been having that dance for years, and it's understandable that people are sick of putting up with it.

 

See, I'm very familiar with that dance myself, because I have a couple friends who are assholes. They'll say something unkind or inappropriate, others will get offended, and one of us will have to sit them down and walk them through why they're an asshole this time around.

 

The problem with Krahulik is that, unless the person sitting him down is Holkins or Khoo, his response to being told he's an asshole is to be an asshole some more. It's like, consciously or not, he thinks that tormenting anyone who gets offended by him until they shut up or go away will prove the invalidity of being told he's an asshole. It's ridiculous, because being an asshole in polite society means owning your shit, even if it stinks. I honestly just think it's beyond poor character for a thirty-something year old man who co-owns a multi-million dollar business to not be able to say he's sorry without bringing in "some of my best friends are trans" non-apology bullshit, let alone to encourage death threats against those who disagree with him. The accidental bigotry is almost beside the point, except that it keeps coming up and some PA fans soak it up like sponges.

 

I mean, did people seriously wear their Dickwolves shirts with pride to PAX? That plan was pretty fucked up in my book.

[TychoCelchuuu]

See, I'm very familiar with that dance myself, because I have a couple friends who are assholes. They'll say something unkind or inappropriate, others will get offended, and one of us will have to sit them down and walk them through why they're an asshole this time around.

 

The problem with Krahulik is that, unless the person sitting him down is Holkins or Khoo, his response to being told he's an asshole is to be an asshole some more. It's like, consciously or not, he thinks that tormenting anyone who gets offended by him until they shut up or go away will prove the invalidity of being told he's an asshole. It's ridiculous, because being an asshole in polite society means owning your shit, even if it stinks. I honestly just think it's beyond poor character for a thirty-something year old man who co-owns a multi-million dollar business to not be able to say he's sorry without bringing in "some of my best friends are trans" non-apology bullshit, let alone to encourage death threats against those who disagree with him. The accidental bigotry is almost beside the point, except that it keeps coming up and some PA fans soak it up like sponges.

 

I mean, did people seriously wear their Dickwolves shirts with pride to PAX? That plan was pretty fucked up in my book.

This is precisely it. Everyone can agree that the Penny Arcade guys don't have actual malice in the sense that they want to specifically go after homosexuals or transgendered people or women or whoever the fuck. In fact they seem like pretty nice guys. They clearly think of themselves as tolerant individuals and I'm sure they've never consciously done something that they actually saw as bigoted.

But Mike is actively and continually antagonistic. He seeks out fights, uses his position of power to push his ideas (legions of fans will scream death threats as people he disagrees with, he gets to post the last word on his site visited by millions of people, he gets to shape the debate by being the popular interlocutor in the conversation), and then when he starts to maybe intimate that he's 100% wrong and that people are being jerks to him because he's saying terrible, bigoted things and acting like he's just joking around, he peaces out and gets to ignore any of the hate he's stirred up and the damage he's caused (he disclaims responsibility for the legions of fans, because of course they aren't his fault, he's got the last word, he's secure in his position as king of the gaming nerds with his own nerd TV shows and his nerd podcast and nerd comic and nerd charity and nerd scholarship). He's got a massive amount of privilege when it comes to these arguments he continually gets in, and whether he ends up learning anything or not, he's completely immune to any of the fallout.

This is why I'm so glad to see The Fullbright Company's public stance on this issue and why I hope that the industry moves in this direction in the future. All the people coming out of the woodwork to defend Penny Arcade are missing the real point in this conversation: Penny Arcade does not need defending. Homosexual people and transgendered people and all sorts of other people need defending. Penny Arcade is on top of the world and when they're wrong about something, it's on them not to get defensive when they're bullied, because they're the real bullies in that situation.

[SecretAsianMan]

This is precisely it. Everyone can agree that the Penny Arcade guys don't have actual malice in the sense that they want to specifically go after homosexuals or transgendered people or women or whoever the fuck. In fact they seem like pretty nice guys. They clearly think of themselves as tolerant individuals and I'm sure they've never consciously done something that they actually saw as bigoted.

But Mike is actively and continually antagonistic. He seeks out fights, uses his position of power to push his ideas (legions of fans will scream death threats as people he disagrees with, he gets to post the last word on his site visited by millions of people, he gets to shape the debate by being the popular interlocutor in the conversation), and then when he starts to maybe intimate that he's 100% wrong and that people are being jerks to him because he's saying terrible, bigoted things and acting like he's just joking around, he peaces out and gets to ignore any of the hate he's stirred up and the damage he's caused (he disclaims responsibility for the legions of fans, because of course they aren't his fault, he's got the last word, he's secure in his position as king of the gaming nerds with his own nerd TV shows and his nerd podcast and nerd comic and nerd charity and nerd scholarship). He's got a massive amount of privilege when it comes to these arguments he continually gets in, and whether he ends up learning anything or not, he's completely immune to any of the fallout.

 

I agree with you here.  His standard response to be provoked is to be an asshole, something he has acknowledged many times.  Saying it out loud doesn't excuse the behavior though.  If I say "I'm going to shoot you" and then shoot you, my telling you didn't make it ok.  I think he does need to learn to curb his belligerent reflex.

 

What I'm defending isn't the words he used, but maybe his meaning.  One of the tweets that got people upset basically amounted to "men have a penis and women have a vagina".  They called him insensitive to transgenders and maybe it is, but I understand the sentiment behind such a statement.  If you ask me what the difference is between a man and a woman, I'm probably going to give you the same answer.  I'm not trying to be sexist/bigoted/insensitive/asshole/whatever, it's just how I've always thought of it.  I don't have any LBGT friends, not because I dislike anyone who is, my life just turned out that way.  I have a better understanding of some of these issues now that this thing has blown up a bit, but a few weeks ago I would probably have said similar things as Krahulik sans the douche tone.

 

As for PAX itself, I've been to 2 Primes and 1 East and I've found them to be some of the best experiences I've ever had.  Not just because of the games, but because of the people.  I've said it many times, but the living, breathing heart of PAX is the Enforcer army, who for the most part have nothing to do with Penny Arcade other than running the show.  They're volunteers (who I think get minimum wage now but that's not the point) and they pretty much just like helping out at a really fun event.  To associate those people with any of the negative vitriol that I see getting thrown at Krahulik makes me sad.  I understand he's the public face of PA so there's going to be some spillover but when I see people (not here but on the internet at large) immediately imply that PAX is also bigoted I get mad.

 

I really hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say.

[Twig]

When you have a billion people attacking you from all angles, it's hard NOT to snap back. Really really fucking hard. So I'm empathetic toward Mike. He made a mistake and was informed that he was a bigoted piece of shit and told to die and etc. The real problem is not that he said something in ignorance. The real problem is that people got mad at him for it. If all of those people directed that passion and anger at the RIGHT people, then maybe it would actually do something. From everything I've heard, I don't believe for a second that he's actually bigoted - just that he doesn't understand some things. So why does the internet at large berate him for it, instead of trying to rationally educate?

 

Yes, he definitely should learn to reign in his assholish tendencies, but he's not the only one at fault. It's shit like this that used to drive me away from feminists. The militant "if you say ANYTHING wrong, I'm going to MURDER YOU" attitude. Obviously not everyone's like that, but the people who aren't are the ones who should be the most vocal. But that's not how it is, and it sucks. It's difficult to see the good in any given movement when it's always overflowing with rage.

[elmuerte]

I wrote a somewhat lengthy response to this penny arcade discussion, but I decided to delete it. This thread is about the haunted house game of the Fullbright Company, not about a huge fuck up by some guy from penny arcade.

[Steve]

Hi all. Thanks for the discussion about this stuff. It is a complicated issue with a lot of sides to it, which is why it was a hard decision for us to make.

 

Today Mike made another apology and donated to a LGBT youth charity. I think it's cool that they're taking positive steps. That said, it doesn't affect our decision.

 

Anyway. We'll be up in Seattle for that weekend to hang out with friends that will be in town, so hopefully some of you folks will get a chance to say hi at the inevitable Idle Thumbs meetup.

 

Oh, to answer questions about the YA/love story/romantic angle: that stuff, for what it is, is almost entirely in the Audio Diaries, which you can turn off if you like.

 

Here's a couple of random giant images to make this post worthwhile:

 

 

[Steve]

Oh yeah, for reference, here's a preview that Emily Morganti wrote up on Adventuregamers which specifically comes at it from the perspective of someone who's into YA fiction: http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/24761

[mikemariano]

Thanks, Steve!

W.R. 3/2/23

Initials of the ghost you play as from Gone Home confirmed.

[SecretAsianMan]

I was hoping that even though you weren't going to be at PAX, you'd still be around for a Thumbs meetup.  Good to know that can still happen!  Thanks Steve!

[Gormongous]

So why does the internet at large berate him for it, instead of trying to rationally educate?

 

This is my last comment on the topic, because elmuerte's right that we're talking about a sweet ghost-hunting/haunting simulator, but no one's obliged to suffer assholes. No matter what I say, no matter my intentions, I will never begrudge someone to throw up their hands, tell me to go fuck myself, and walk away. I mean, it would distress the fuck out of me, but still. The burden of education is entirely on the offender and not the offended, though sometimes the latter are selfless enough to put in the time.

 

Hey Steve (if you're still reading this thread), whose handwriting is that on the envelope and on the letter? Is it too "inside baseball" to ask? I'm always curious how one would art-direct handwriting, since it's so distinctive and so hard to fake.