Feminism

[SecretAsianMan]

Man I love Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal (the comic, not actual cereal.  Although that's good too)

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Hey can you resize that comic lol it's freaking huge~

[Professor Video Games]

It's man-sized.

[James]

SMBC is one of the very few web comics I enjoy at all. It's pretty great.

[Smart Jason]

 

Admittedly, there's a certain part of me that can't help but feel a swell of euphoric disbelief at seeing a Persona property adorn every badge at E3. Put that aside, however, and what a sad, ironic image this is.

[Mangela Lansbury]

Experience the evolution (of everything but the latent sexism in the video games industry)

[Apple Cider]

Honestly, Persona has never struck me as an overly aggressive series (but I barely know about it) in terms of oversexualing women, especially since aren't all the characters teens? That outfit barely even registers as objectionable to me at this point, given that it doesn't even have an upskirt, her hand is covering her boobs, and she's actually dressed somewhat appropriately for a dance club. 

[Gaizokubanou]

You are right, but I still can't quite shake off that sense of funny-irony like staring at a price tag on Communist Manifesto.

[Smart Jason]

Honestly, Persona has never struck me as an overly aggressive series (but I barely know about it) in terms of oversexualing women, especially since aren't all the characters teens? That outfit barely even registers as objectionable to me at this point, given that it doesn't even have an upskirt, her hand is covering her boobs, and she's actually dressed somewhat appropriately for a dance club. 

 

Brianna Wu made a salient point (although accompanied by apologist replies interpreting the end of her S-Link arc as permissively reconciling with her sexualization) by saying that this flies in the face of Rise's character, whose struggle in Persona 4 consists of her abandoning fame because she wasn't comfortable with how she was being portrayed as a teen idol.

 

Same as when newer Persona materials display Naoto embracing her femininity in super bombastic ways just because Japanese producers think she's ripe when (while interpreting her as trans, same as interpreting Kanji as gay, is likely a misread) she was still a more nuanced study of gender than games do.

[Apple Cider]

Oh yeah, it's kinda darkly hilarious.

[syntheticgerbil]

Seems to be a combination in an art direction change and a love for money. There's this too: http://www.destructoid.com/i-m-not-happy-with-the-persona-4-dancing-all-night-swimsuit-dlc-291079.phtml

[Mangela Lansbury]

Honestly, Persona has never struck me as an overly aggressive series (but I barely know about it) in terms of oversexualing women, especially since aren't all the characters teens? That outfit barely even registers as objectionable to me at this point, given that it doesn't even have an upskirt, her hand is covering her boobs, and she's actually dressed somewhat appropriately for a dance club. 

 

All the characters are teens, and it handles some things well buuuuuuut it's also very anime and very JRPG and comes with a lot of that baggage -- you have your gratuitous hot springs and beach scenes, your swimsuits and french maid outfits, all the -dere types put there for male fantasies, all that's required to get with a girl is be interested in her... Persona 4 had some weird sexualization of one of its underage characters ("I'm going to get naked on live TV, so keep watching!")...

 

It's no more aggressive than anything else in the generic anime high school setting, but that's not really saying much.

[Apple Cider]

Yeah, I suppose. Look, I'm not even disagreeing with you guys. I think I've just passed through so much fucking shit in gaming by this point that I've become the unaffected person I've never wanted to become. 

[richardco]

Smart Jason, on 17 Jun 2015 - 19:36, said:

Brianna Wu made a salient point (although accompanied by apologist replies interpreting the end of her S-Link arc as permissively reconciling with her sexualization) by saying that this flies in the face of Rise's character, whose struggle in Persona 4 consists of her abandoning fame because she wasn't comfortable with how she was being portrayed as a teen idol.

Same as when newer Persona materials display Naoto embracing her femininity in super bombastic ways just because Japanese producers think she's ripe when (while interpreting her as trans, same as interpreting Kanji as gay, is likely a misread) she was still a more nuanced study of gender than games do.

I'm never quite sure of the consensus on Rise's arc in Persona 4. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, Bri and the apologists both have it backwards. I certainly had a different take on it before I read the wikipedia article on Japanese idols.

Idols in Japan are supposed to be these virginal creatures that aren't even allowed to have significant others, and Rise's shadow self was born because her job made her feel ashamed of her sexuality. (As an aside, I find Rise's accepting of her shadow to be one of the most emotional moments in the game, and I cry a little every time.) Rise's entire arc is about her being uncomfortable with how she's portrayed, but it's the purity aspect that she's uncomfortable with.

So from a character standpoint, it's not weird that Rise would want to dress provocatively, it's weird that she'd want to go back to a profession that would paint her as a symbol of purity. I can't remember how they reconcile this in the game. I think she wants to become an idol again for her fans.

The Naoto stuff on the other hand really does feel out of character. By the end of Persona 4, Rise has said that she wants to go back to being an idol. Naoto is really never comfortable being viewed as a woman. But the way that Naoto's gender identity and Kanji's sexuality (respectively) are so strangely portrayed that I really have no idea what the writers were going for. It sounds like maybe they had an idea of homosexuality and what it means to be transgender, but they didn't know as much as they should to write a gay character and a trans character.

The Kanji stuff is particularly egregious because they couch being a gay man in fear of women. Like oh, Kanji's not gay, he's just scared of girls! That's really fucked up. 

Still it was really nice to at least see a game try to broach those subjects, and especially with such lovable characters. Especially in the PS2 era!

[Merus]

It's sort of a shame that Persona Team get points for trying, but that they also get points for clearly trying in a way that most other developers don't. Catherine had similar problems - god it fucked up, but it's about recognisably human situations that no-one makes games about.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Catherine makes more sense as a game if you imagine the whole game being made by people who identify with the Protagonist (Vincent) and not the women.

[BobbyBesar]

Re: Persona 4, I think reading Kanji as gay and Naoto as trans only make sense until you complete their storylines. Kanji works better as a critique of toxic masculinity, and Naoto as institutional sexism. They simply happen to converge on some of the same themes that a gay / trans character would.

 

I interpreted Rise's arc to be less about sexualization per se, and more about agency and having control over her own identity.

 

Catherine makes more sense as a game if you imagine the whole game being made by people who identify with the Protagonist (Vincent) and not the women.

 

Yeah, Catherine is a fairly straightforward adolescent dude-bro doesn't want to grow up story, which is a well worn archetype. It doesn't have a lot of interest in the women other than as props.

[clyde]

It's sort of a shame that Persona Team get points for trying, but that they also get points for clearly trying in a way that most other developers don't. Catherine had similar problems - god it fucked up, but it's about recognisably human situations that no-one makes games about.

This is called "good art".

I haven't played Persona 4 or Catherine. I love it when artists take risks like trying to talk about sacred things, if they also take clear criticism about how they fell short.

[osmosisch]

Re: Persona 4, I think reading Kanji as gay and Naoto as trans only make sense until you complete their storylines. Kanji works better as a critique of toxic masculinity, and Naoto as institutional sexism. They simply happen to converge on some of the same themes that a gay / trans character would.

 

I interpreted Rise's arc to be less about sexualization per se, and more about agency and having control over her own identity.

This has been my interpretation as well, for what it's worth.

[richardco]

Re: Persona 4, I think reading Kanji as gay and Naoto as trans only make sense until you complete their storylines. Kanji works better as a critique of toxic masculinity, and Naoto as institutional sexism. They simply happen to converge on some of the same themes that a gay / trans character would.

 

I interpreted Rise's arc to be less about sexualization per se, and more about agency and having control over her own identity.

 

 

Yeah, Catherine is a fairly straightforward adolescent dude-bro doesn't want to grow up story, which is a well worn archetype. It doesn't have a lot of interest in the women other than as props.

 

That's a take that I like, because I really want it to be that they just didn't completely fumble. I'll keep it in mind the next time I play through the game.

[Deadpan]

I went into Persona 4 way late (Vita, yusss) and it really was a bit weird seeing how those characters were really written opposite all the "such progressive arcs" hype I'd caught before.

 

Kanji works out pretty okay I think since using an interest in activities that aren't considered traditionally masculine to mark him as gay would have also been weird, and then his plotline actually ends up being about how those assumptions are garbage instead. There's some bad stuff in there for sure, but it barely registered for me opposite Yosuke's constant gross comments towards him I guess.

 

I'm struggling to find a favorable read of Naoto's story though personally, especially given how you need to push her towards less ambiguous and more clearly feminine presentation if you want to romance her, which feels like such a gross, controlling relationship.

[clyde]

A review of men's fashion during E3 press-conferences. Summary: not very interesting.

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/let-consider-menswear-e3/?utm_content=buffer54a8e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Bjorn]

Was looking at Resident Evil games on Steam, and noticed the Lady Hunk DLC on Revelations:

 

Even as a lady, HUNK is still able to handle heavy weaponry with ease.

 

The main difference in the characters is that HUNK has pants, and Lady HUNK doesn't.

 

Go go video games. 

[Reyturner]

A review of men's fashion during E3 press-conferences. Summary: not very interesting.

http://killscreendaily.com/articles/let-consider-menswear-e3/?utm_content=buffer54a8e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I'm struggling to develop an appreciation for the value people place in fashion and aesthetics, of not an appreciation for fashion and aesthetics themselves, but fashion snark will only ever read as pointless, superficial and mean spirited. Especially when it's just shooting fish in a barrel like this.

What's the follow up, the people of Walmart?

[SuperBiasedMan]

Isn't the idea that the snark is meant to be punching up and highlighting the privileged homogeny of the industry? Not so much that the lack of fashion itself is a source of derision.