Feminism

[Twig]

In other news, Dota blargh. ):

 

Here's how Phantom Assassin used to look

 

 

Then they made her face more Stereotypically Pretty

 

(left is new, right is old)

 

Now they released an Arcana today (basically a reskin cosmetic item that you can equip to make drastic changes) http://www.dota2.com/store/itemdetails/20684?r=cb

 

 

I don't like it. I don't like how she went from rad sweet assassin lady to check out my hips. Especially when Dota already has enough of those.

 

There's nothing deep or meaningful to talk about here - typical video game industry bullshit - but it's annoying. I mostly just wanted to vent a little. Especially when I for some reason decided to read the Dota 2 subreddit because new update info today for the next hero and find a thread where everyone's like BBUBUBUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH SEXY and ugh fuck.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Even the bonus chat emoticon you get is a lazy reiteration of a stupid trope.

 

[Cleinhun]

Especially when I for some reason decided to read the Dota 2 subreddit because new update info today for the next hero and find a thread where everyone's like BBUBUBUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH SEXY and ugh fuck.

Yeah, that reddit thread was worse than I thought it would be. Like, there are a few people pointing out that the set has plenty of cool changes, and would still look good if they hadn't taken all her clothes off for some reason, but then all the responses are "it gave me a boner tho so it's k". 

[Twig]

Yeah that's what's the worst about it. I like everything about it besides that shit.

 

Luckily it doesn't look nearly as bad from the proper top-down perspective. Which makes it even more baffling. \:

 

Even the bonus chat emoticon you get is a lazy reiteration of a stupid trope.

 

I don't get it, sorry.

[BusbyBerkeley]

Yeah, that reddit thread was worse than I thought it would be. Like, there are a few people pointing out that the set has plenty of cool changes, and would still look good if they hadn't taken all her clothes off for some reason, but then all the responses are "it gave me a boner tho so it's k". 

 

Yeah, that's why I don't play Dota anymore.

[Cyborg771]

I don't get it, sorry.

 

Yeah,  me either. Did the link break or something?

[Bjorn]

More and more women are coming forward with stories about assault and rape from Bill Cosby.  But Don Lemon on CNN had the jaw dropping audacity to suggest to one of Cosby's accusers that:

 

Lemon: You know, there are way not to perform oral sex if you didn't want to do it.

Tarshis: Oh, I was kind of stoned at the time, and quite honestly, that didn't even enter my mind. Now I wish it would have.

Lemon: Right. Meaning the using of the teeth, right?

 

Message being, you got raped because you weren't willing to bite a guy's dick off? I mean, I'm all for self-defense, but that's some serious shit to expect of someone. Plus what kind of danger is a woman who has been drugged putting herself into if she bites the dick of the guy who was willing to drug and rape her.

[Erkki]

I love that this thread has existed for as long as it has. I think I was a feminist pretty much from the start, maybe because the way I was raised, but I was also rather sexist. This thread has given me a better understanding of what sexism and feminism are and also an ability to argue about why sexism is bad. I sometimes even have fun arguing against the sexist or anti-feminist things some of my co-workers say/share on facebook occasionally. They are smart people so I think each time when they stop arguing further (usually by not responding any more), they have realized that they can't make a further argument without seeming like a total dick, and I hope that takes them closer to having a better understanding of sexism and realizing what feminism is actually.

[itsamoose]

I sometimes even have fun arguing against the sexist or anti-feminist things some of my co-workers say/share on facebook occasionally. They are smart people so I think each time when they stop arguing further (usually by not responding any more), they have realized that they can't make a further argument without seeming like a total dick, and I hope that takes them closer to having a better understanding of sexism and realizing what feminism is actually.

 

My room mate went on an anti feminism rant last night with a similar result, largely thanks to things I've learned reading this thread.  I feel like every time I discuss feminism or women's issues of any kind with my male friends someone gets angry and ends up spewing some incredibly sexist shit, then immediately gets that deer-in-the-headlights look, or spends the rest of the night explaining how sexist they aren't.

[Erkki]

I was arguing with 3 dudes on my team yesterday, but they wouldn't give up this time. One revealed himself as totally anti-feminist, not believing equal rights are possible. Don't know how to convince him...

[Bolegium]

So we can slingshot a probe to land on a comet 10 years after launch, we can eradicate smallpox, increase the healthy lifespan of most humans by decades, wage centuries of wars that cost millions of dollars and lives, but equal rights for women is impossible and we shouldn't even bother trying?

If life itself can't convince him, i don't know what will.

[James]

Even if it were impossible (which seems ridiculous, but whatever), wouldn't it be worth making every effort to at least bring us closer to equality? Kind of like how we'll probably never completely eradicate murder, but it's still absolutely worth trying the best we can to to get as close to that ideal as possible. A goal doesn't have to be achievable in the absolute in order to be worth moving towards.

[Erkki]

He actually said that some essential gender differences make them flock to different interests, and that this makes equality impossible, and that equal rights usually is about equality.

 

I guess I could have found an argument against this, such as the environment all around us gently pushing girls and boys to different interests instead of it being inherent. But at the heat of the moment there were so many things being said I missed that opportunity. But anyway, he seems like a guy who believes in absolutes. When I suggested that fighting for womens issues is better than ignoring everyone's issues, he called it discriminatory. He also denies the male privilege (as is his privilege), and likes to set up strawmen, like women not wanting equality in martial arts or something.

 

I feel kind of bad that I didn't continue the argument in the office today (he was in the office briefly, usually works remotely), but I don't want to get into those things while working as my office time needs to be rather well used since I tend to minimize it due to other activities. He also didn't bring any of it up until he had to say goodbye so I thought I'd just let it be.

[Problem Machine]

The broad fallacy underlying a lot of discriminatory thought is the conflation of properties of the group with properties of the individual. Even if we take it as given that women have different aptitudes from men, and that those aptitudes are somehow coincidentally perfectly mapped to our societal prejudices, that still doesn't mean anything when it comes to an individual woman and an individual man. Because variances within the group are far broader than any statistical trends, judging an individual based upon the statistical properties of the group, unless it's a truly overwhelming and obvious trend to the point that it becomes tautological with the grouping itself (ie the trend for 'black people' to have dark skins), is both unethical and illogical.

 

Men as a group are statistically physically stronger than women, but some women are stronger than some men. If heavy lifting needs to be done, perhaps we should consider the healthy bodybuilder woman before the sickly young man who struggles to keep his weight up.

 

Arguing against the premise of those statistical variances is also valuable, don't get me wrong -- but hardly necessary as a premise to dismantle the idea of discrimination.

[JonCole]

San Francisco dude was stabbed nine times for confronting man catcalling his girlfriend - http://sfist.com/2014/11/18/the_practice_of_catcallings_been.php

 

He has a GoFundMe to help pay for hospital bills, I'll pitch a few bucks for a folk feminist hero - http://www.gofundme.com/hit31k

[Twig]

I just saw this on Facebook in a conversation involving like ten people, only one of whom I know (who thankfully was the voice of reason, although I think he worded his original post - that started the conversation - in a way that was easily misunderstood by the others - idiots - to mean something it didn't).

 

 

your average women does not view things as data points and samples. You will get no where arguing with woman from a position of logic like this when her feelings are involved. Woman are all about feelings, and how things make them feel. You can be 100% right from a logical perspective, but it matters not if she feels hurt, or feels negative about the topic. Not all woman are this way of coarse, but at least 1 standard deviation on either side of the average are. The shirt made a bunch of woman feel (fill in the blank with negative feeling), and after that you can damn well bet we are all going to be hearing about it. I think the different ways that men and woman tend to think and communicate compliment each other.

 

What the fuck.

[itsamoose]

My room mate does that thing where he uses "woman" instead of "women" when talking about women as a group too.  I can never figure out how someone posts something like that and either doesn't recognize the error, or realize that it makes them sound like a caveman.

[Twig]

I actually engaged with the guy and then he blocked me on Facebook. Presumably because I pointed out that he was saying some sexist shit. Fortunately I don't have any idea who he is, so no loss on my part. But fuck me.

 

This is what I said to him that triggered the block. There's some anger in the for sure because I wasn't exaggerating. I was shaking. It was uncomfortable as hell. I'm still reeling a little.

 

 

Oh, I read the whole thing. And then I read it over several more times looking for hints of intentional irony. It's incredibly bigoted. You can't drop a bunch of sexism on the table and then make it okay by saying "oh but NOT ALL WOMEN".

 

I'm almost physically shaking with anger right now. I guess I'm a woman because I'm getting all EMOTIONAL about this shit. What you said is disgusting. I'm not going to respond past this, but you really need to think about everything you just said. Think about what it would feel like for a woman to read that.

 

Empathy is an important element of being a human being. Please, keep that in mind going forward with your life. Have a nice day.

 

I don't think I said anything outrageous there, but if it looks like I did, please tell me?

[BobbyBesar]

Well, if you replace "women" with "people", that whole screed is roughly accurate.

[Bjorn]

That seems like a pretty even tempered response given the nonsensical bile he was spewing. 

[Cyborg771]

I mean I can see why somebody wouldn't want to have their position challenged. You weren't outrageous; it was a reasonable response to an unreasonable position, but if somebody said that in response to anything I said (and believed) I would be upset too. Beyond having supernatural patience for bullshit there isn't really a good way to engage with people like that.

[SecretAsianMan]

"Feminist hacker Barbie doesn't need your goddamned help, Steven and Brian" may be my favorite article headline in a long while.

[Bjorn]

That's awesome!

[Gwardinen]

Some of those images are great. That said, I indent with tabs. Is that a bad thing now? 

[Twig]

Tabs are for squares.