BioShock Infinite

[Gormongous]

I'm not going to look up the original quotes because I will tell you, I honestly don't care enough about this issue to do so. That said, I seem to recall Levine/Irrational saying that Infinite wouldn't build on Rapture's story. Both the inclusion of Rapture in Infinite and in this DLC seem to keep true to that message, because they're not iterating or continuing that plot as much as they are referencing it and making light of the parallel stories. I think it remains to be seen how "canon" this DLC will be in the story of Rapture.

 

I'd rather think Ken Levine just changed his mind, rather than some weaselly "Infinite won't build on the story of Rapture. Rapture will only be a location you visit and part of the reason behind a couple major plot elements and the setting for a DLC spin-off."

[sclpls]

I don't think a combat arena to play with those mechanics is that bad. I can easily see people being disappointed that it isn't the DLC content they wanted. I enjoyed the combat, but I also agree that the combat's intersection with the story got a bit muddled. 

 

I didn't grab Dunwall City Trials until the Steam Sale.

 

I agree with this. There's an interesting article up at Polygon that features a discussion with the level designer, and reading his thoughts about the sort of trade-offs that took place in designing combat in the game was really interesting. That's why I love Bioshock Infinite despite whatever flaws exist in the game - they tried out a lot of new ideas, and I appreciate that sort of experimentation. Of course the problem with experimentation is not everything ends up working out.

 

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/30/4570112/bioshock-infinite-clash-in-the-clouds-DLC

[JonCole]

ith the Clash in the Clouds DLC Irrational just takes a huge shit on them and the game.

 

Thanks for letting me know that Irrational just took a huge shit on me. I don't think I would have noticed if not for your help. Seriously though, you should probably calm down.

 

 

I'd rather think Ken Levine just changed his mind, rather than some weaselly "Infinite won't build on the story of Rapture. Rapture will only be a location you visit and part of the reason behind a couple major plot elements and the setting for a DLC spin-off."

 

I don't really think it matters either way. I'm just saying that if you insist that a developer keeps every promise or else they're BETRAYING you, there's still a bit of wiggle room for Levine. I don't personally believe that, because I don't think a game developer necessarily needs to watch every word they say - that's a job for PR, and if we give dev's too hard a time for stuff like this we might not get as many developer interviews.

[Nappi]

However, the bigger news is that the second and third DLC packs will form a two-part detective story set in Rapture.

Called Burial at Sea, it will star Booker and Elizabeth as private investigator and femme fatale respectively, and you will get to play as both of them.

 

I don't care about the Bioshock universe or continuity in the slightest, so I'm really looking forward to this!

[Roswell47]

Thanks for letting me know that Irrational just took a huge shit on me. I don't think I would have noticed if not for your help. Seriously though, you should probably calm down.

 

Your snarky passive-aggressiveness doesn't help you at all. Also is this you?:

 

I can't be passionate about my own opinions and ethics when it comes to artistic integrity and the creative process of making games? No I just need to shut up and be happy that video game development is still hugely about turning a profit.

[Twig]

This is wacky and so I love it. Fuck all y'alls!

[melmer]

I wonder if booker will end up fucking his 'spoiler' just like in that movie 'spoiler'

"You can call me... Elizabeth"

what dose that scene suggest to you? Isn't the femme fatal normally a love interest

What if bookers memory is all wiped and shit or it is an alternate reality where he hasn't met her yet.

God, image if there was a moment in this game where you are following Elizabeth and Booker say to himself in his mubbled internal monologue "that's a sweet piece of ass"

I'm just saying, that would be an interesting and unexpected turn and I've had too much vino

[melmer]

Fucked up

[chummer]

Your snarky passive-aggressiveness doesn't help you at all. Also is this you?:

Hey, I remember that vocalist:

 

[Argobot]

What if Elizabeth is actually

 

Elizabeth's mother???

[youmeyou]

[Twig]

For people who actually believe Infinite had a good story/writing; With the Clash in the Clouds DLC Irrational just takes a huge shit on them and the game.

Wait, hold on, what. You're saying that because a game developer decided to release content that is all about the gameplay, that invalidates everything they did prior? What the fuck? I need further explanation because as it stands this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

 

EDIT: Just watched the trailer for Burial at Sea. Oh man, I'm sold. Yes please. Gimme now.

[dium]

I can't be passionate about my own opinions and ethics when it comes to artistic integrity and the creative process of making games? No I just need to shut up and be happy that video game development is still hugely about turning a profit.

 

I don't think anyone is telling you to shut up. What you're experiencing here is people disagreeing with you and since you already addressed people who disagree with you directly ("for people who actually believe infinite had a good story") and dismissively (see previous quote) you might get some defensive responses (surprise).

 

I guess I'm slightly interested in what your opinions are regarding artistic integrity and what exactly Irrational did wrong in the case of Infinite. Was it that they said something untrue in a press release once? Or is having parallel universes as a plot device such an egregiously bad decision in your opinion that you consider it a breach of integrity? I'm pretty sure I disagree with you either way but I'd like to know what specifically I'm disagreeing with.

[Brannigan]

It's not that you can't be passionate about opinions, it's that you're going full "more like suckbox 360!!!1!" in a place where that generally doesn't happen. So you're probably going to get some sassy responses, and even then there really hasn't been much of anything in that way.  It also sounded like you didn't actually play the game, so that's weird.  I think we all enjoyed the game on some level, despite whatever flaws may have irked us or not.

[Lu]

 can't be passionate about my own opinions and ethics when it comes to artistic integrity and the creative process of making games? No I just need to shut up and be happy that video game development is still hugely about turning a profit.

 

 

I'm rather curious why you think it's taking a shit on the people that liked the story/writing part, because I really don't understand that. What opinions and ethics?

[malkav11]

I assume that the DLC is going back to Rapture (but hey, at least a pre-collapse Rapture) because a lot of the design legwork is already done and you don't have to come up with an entire new setting the equal of Rapture and Columbia just for an addon. Much as I'd rather they did go somewhere new. I'm a little annoyed as a Season Pass holder (albeit bought with the $20 preorder credit I had from GMG) that one of the three DLCs I was promised isn't a story DLC at all but just a score attack thingy, though.

[Roswell47]

I don't think anyone is telling you to shut up. What you're experiencing here is people disagreeing with you and since you already addressed people who disagree with you directly ("for people who actually believe infinite had a good story") and dismissively (see previous quote) you might get some defensive responses (surprise).

 

I guess I'm slightly interested in what your opinions are regarding artistic integrity and what exactly Irrational did wrong in the case of Infinite. Was it that they said something untrue in a press release once? Or is having parallel universes as a plot device such an egregiously bad decision in your opinion that you consider it a breach of integrity? I'm pretty sure I disagree with you either way but I'd like to know what specifically I'm disagreeing with.

 

Well that one guy telling me to calm down. My text reads very loud and abrasive apparently.

 

My opinion about Infinite is that the ending is extremely lazy from a writing standpoint (almost like a deus ex machina) and it just reeks of "Now we can do whatever we want with DLC because IT DOESN'T MATTER! The Take-Two shareholders are gonna LOVE us!"

 

 

I'm rather curious why you think it's taking a shit on the people that liked the story/writing part, because I really don't understand that.

 

With the Clash in the Clouds DLC they might as well make a skyhook racing game. It's like if Amnesia had DLC that was all first person platforming.

[Badfinger]

With the Clash in the Clouds DLC they might as well make a skyhook racing game. It's like if Amnesia had DLC that was all first person platforming.

 

Did you play Dishonored?

 

Did you play Dunwall City Trials?

 

Did you play the Knife of Dunwall?

 

Do those pieces of content both need to do the same thing to be appealing?

[Roswell47]

Did you play Dishonored?

 

Did you play Dunwall City Trials?

 

Did you play the Knife of Dunwall?

 

Do those pieces of content both need to do the same thing to be appealing?

 

Yes.

 

No.

 

No.

 

What has appeal to do with what I'm talking about? The only thought behind CitC is money. "How can we make some quick cash without spending a lot of time or effort? Let's do horde mode from Gears of War!" It's like they are copping onto the idea that their game is an unfocused pretense.

[Badfinger]

My point was maybe you shouldn't sound so personally offended that the dev team is making a game mode that appeals to the people who really like Infinite's combat and want the version where they get it injected straight to their veins. Appeal has a lot to do with it.

 

They're even doing story diehards a favor and splitting it into a separate piece of content you never need to buy, look at, or think about. I find it very analogous to Dunwall City Trials/Knife of Dunwall which is why I mentioned it.

 

I also find it similar to Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, which was handwaved off by a lot of players and then turned out to be fucking rad. I'm pretty sure I'm less than 3 hours into the single player campain on ME3 but have played the multiplayer for 100 hours. Guess what, ain't no lore in horde mode.

 

Horde mode is awesome.

[Roswell47]

I'm not offended. I'm sad and annoyed that a AAA developer I thought was maybe not mostly about turning a profit turned out to be just that.

 

I don't think either read or understood my opinion on artistic integrity or both.

 

I thought the MP was just as stupid in ME3. I don't give a shit about lore.

 

Video games (culture).

[feelthedarkness]

I agree with Badfinger here. I think they also might be playing around with their combat mechanics in a setting that compliments only that. A lot of effort went into developing the weapons, and vigors, gear, etc... So I see a logic in them just playing around with that stuff, putting it through it's paces without having to consider narrative, which many felt was often in conflict with the mechanics. Especially in light of the hints that they are working on a narrative focused expansion.

 

"Turning a profit" is also keeping hundreds of people employed, housed, and fed. This is one of the least exploitative ways they could do it.

[Thrik]

I don't really see CotC as selling out, even if it's not something that personally appeals to me. I see it as like the time trial arena DLC that was released for Mirror's Edge: a simplified experience that completely forgets about the story and canon, and just focuses on the pure gameplay mechanics that make the game fun. Dishonored's Dunwall City Trials DLC was a very appropriate equivalent to bring up, as it's much the same thing.

 

It seems to be becoming an increasingly common thing for games to have one DLC akin to the above, and one or more that continue the narrative and canon of the world in some way. Clearly there's an audience for both or they wouldn't be made or bought, and I can very easily see how one might enjoy a distilled gameplay DLC and be willing to pay for it even if, again, it's not my cup of tea.

 

I certainly don't see it as selling out. In fact, to my mind one of the huge advantages of optional DLC is that various types of extra content can be offered without it affecting the core game. For example, a small part of the development team might have had some crazy idea for some awesome gun/traversal gameplay that they couldn't quite make work in the central game, but by being freed of the requirement that it make sense or appeal to everybody they can just go nuts.

 

That's a good thing, no? Even if there is the risk not everyone will like every DLC. If anything, the safe, easy, sell-out route would be making the DLC exactly in the same vein as the original game, thus eliminating the risk that it might not appeal to everyone.

 

If you can't understand or tolerate that, I guess this is just something that's going to annoy you for many years to come.

[Badfinger]

I didn't say you were offended, I said you sounded offended. I'm doing my best to define my perspective, and not put words in your mouth.

 

Video Games from an AAA developer are a for-profit venture. They have to be motivated by that, but the way they make a profit is by providing a product that can be profitable. That can be exciting and new and innovative!

 

Making Money != Creatively Bankrupt

 

 

Maybe I'm not getting your point? After your last reply it also sounds like you're saying "I'm not personally interested, so it's bad and a waste of time"

[Twig]

I'll never understand the anger some GAMERS have about developers making money.

 

This is dumb.

 

This is real dumb.

 

There's a huge difference between this and exploitative free to play mobile games. Direct your anger where it should be directed. Yeesh.