Justin Leego Posted December 31, 2013 Well said. It does seem like some positive feedback-loop is haunting us; roughly, "Which game this year reminds us most of the GOTY of yesteryears?" Next year we'll be discussing the GHOTY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hermie Posted January 1, 2014 What if it's not a question of objective vs. subjective criticism, but rather the editoral/written voice of IGN vs. Greg Miller?When I write for different outlets, I adapt my writing style. A review in The Guardian the paper newspaper, a review on their website, and a review on a personal blog will all be different, even if they're written by the same person about the same game. This doesn't necessarily have to do with catering to different audiences, but rather the tone, voice, style of the selected medium. We've shown in the last 60 pages of this thread that we are keenly aware of the voice IGN has as an editorial outlet. Is it then so strange that Greg Miller!IGN Editor choses a different GOTY than Greg Miller!Personal Self? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted January 1, 2014 What if it's not a question of objective vs. subjective criticism, but rather the editoral/written voice of IGN vs. Greg Miller? When I write for different outlets, I adapt my writing style. A review in The Guardian the paper newspaper, a review on their website, and a review on a personal blog will all be different, even if they're written by the same person about the same game. This doesn't necessarily have to do with catering to different audiences, but rather the tone, voice, style of the selected medium. We've shown in the last 60 pages of this thread that we are keenly aware of the voice IGN has as an editorial outlet. Is it then so strange that Greg Miller!IGN Editor choses a different GOTY than Greg Miller!Personal Self? I agree, but what I'm detecting is that GOTY is apparently so set in stone on a personal level that changing your pick based on style/voice results in some great compromise of personal integrity. I don't really buy that, because as you said IGN has a clear editorial voice when you see the same bombast in every positive review on the site regardless of editor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmbossy Posted January 1, 2014 What if it's not a question of objective vs. subjective criticism, but rather the editoral/written voice of IGN vs. Greg Miller? An editorial voice should account for presentation, not so much for actual opinion. What it comes down to is the question of "what is Goty?". If unfiltered you think one game is the best of the year, and in your job your view changes than what does giving a GOTY even mean? If/when I win a GOTY I would immediately question the award of it, what aspect of my creation is being celebrated? In the case of Naughty Dog, are they to celebrate that their game is better than any other game when not scrutinized (Polish of the year?)? They are then, if not that, giving the award to their fans and their staff. EDIT: Hungover atm, if illegible i'll rewrite later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted January 1, 2014 An editorial voice should account for presentation, not so much for actual opinion. What it comes down to is the question of "what is Goty?". If unfiltered you think one game is the best of the year, and in your job your view changes than what does giving a GOTY even mean? If/when I win a GOTY I would immediately question the award of it, what aspect of my creation is being celebrated? In the case of Naughty Dog, are they to celebrate that their game is better than any other game when not scrutinized (Polish of the year?)? They are then, if not that, giving the award to their fans and their staff. "What is GOTY?" is a meaningless question. Greg said that The Last of Us is his IGN pick, and the IGN awards are "Best of 2013". He said his Giant Bomb pick is Gone Home, which he said was his "favorite game of 2013". He's talking about two different things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmbossy Posted January 1, 2014 So IGN's "Best of 2013" personally I see as being meaningless. What is it awarding if not the staff's favourite games of the year? If Miller isn't voting his favourite then what is he voting for? Edit: To note-- Gone Home is NOMINATED for ign's game of the year; what does that fucking represent? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 1, 2014 Edit: To note-- Gone Home is NOMINATED for ign's game of the year; what does that fucking represent?It represents the fact that IGN is the sort of place that needs to tip its hat to a game like Gone Home but give the GOTY to a game like The Last of Us. I think we all know that IGN is this kind of site and that lots of sites are these kinds of sites because gamer culture is a certain sort of culture and people frequent certain sorts of sights to hear certain sorts of things. If IGN were giving Gone Home and games like it the GOTY it wouldn't be in the position it is now, and some other site would spring up to give The Last of Us the GOTY and capture the readership of people who, for various reasons, want a game like The Last of Us to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmbossy Posted January 1, 2014 Man tycho, you have a real knack for inspiring cynicism Now I hate IGN and their fans... Right, so for personal digression (and because I don't think i'm intellectually capable of leading this conversation) I do agree with JonCole, in that I think separating your professional opinion with your personal one isn't the true offense here (at least that's what I irrefutably agreed with from his arguments). Personally, it comes down to a distaste for the structure of IGN and their accolades being meaningless to me. It's upsetting that they see it necessary to tailor their collective opinions, but I guess there are financial reasons to continue this process. To me GOTY's do have a place in gaming; They are akin to my view on the Oscars, given by respected members of our industry as recognition for greater achievement (at least, that's what I pretend the Oscars are for). This is only a process I can participate in when I respect those industry members, which as outlined, do not include IGN or their staffers. my GOTY goes to BioShock Infinite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clyde Posted January 1, 2014 my GOTY goes to BioShock Infinite Why not look for those who also choose BioShock Infinite as their game of the year and then put them on your reading list? That's what IGN fans do, that's what most everyone does. There is some value to bolstering the mouth of a perspective you share. It allows cultures to develop ideas and then share the ideology they have grown for comparison and consideration with other communities that have done the same with different collective perspectives. I view GOTY picks as banners for recruitment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted January 1, 2014 While they're talking about slightly different things, I'm going to point to . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 2, 2014 Apropos of the GOTY discussion, look what happened when PC Gamer picked Spelunky as their GOTY. Keep in mind that PC Gamer is more niche than IGN.com because PC gaming is already the nicheier, nerdier side of gaming (at least non-casual PC gaming) and Spelunky is a hardcore highly polished platformer with no pretensions to socially conscious narrativity or anything like that (it's even a little racist!) so it's not like they picked Gone Home or some other "non-game" that addresses a topic like lesbians which people love to hate. (If you want to see blowback from PC Gamer praising Gone Home, you can see what people said about picking Gone Home as the narrative game of the year.) Check out the comments on the article: they include things like "...wat"; "they must have meant "Indie Game of the Year 2013" surely..."; "PC Gamer is a joke..that's wat."; "April Fools is in 4 months PC Gamer..."; "Wait, game of the year? The whole year? All of it?? In all ~365 days of 2013 this was the best thing that happened in PC gaming???"; "A fucking sidescroller with completely unoriginal concepts, flash game graphics, and terrible artwork. Great. fucking great. PC gamers have turned into a bunch of fucking hipsters." and so on. That's what you get when you pick Spelunky as your GOTY - you alienate a huge swathe of people who are expecting Bioshock Infinite to win, because Bioshock Infinite is the sort of game that wins GOTYs from places like PC Gamer, and Spelunky is just an indie game. That's where we're at. IGN.com, PC Gamer, and all other media outlets have specific audiences that expect specific things. There's no objective best game for anyone to pick: all there is are games that individual journalists like, games that people expect to win GOTYs, and the choice between the two when they don't match up. It can all be summed up in another comment on that Spelunky GOTY article: Ive been getting some pretty strange vibes from PCG for a while now and though I loved it for a while, this 'Like stuff because it is different' or 'divisive games are the best' attitude is really pushing me away. I hope 2014 will be better. People are so sure they know what games are GOTY material that they can only see a win for Spelunky as some sort of betrayal. PC Gamer no longer stands for what they thought it stood for: perhaps they will no longer bother reading PC Gamer if it keeps acting like this. I leave you with this gem (another quote from that page): Does anybody know some really legit gamecritic? I've been searching for a while now and no luck so far. IGN is bunch of amateurs. some of the staff started playing games when x360 came out, what a joke. Gametrailers are sellouts, PC Gamer clearly doesn't care about objectivity neither. Any hints would be honestly appretiated! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadHat Posted January 2, 2014 Spelunky was divisive? Edit: The only GOTY picks that matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenLuke Posted January 2, 2014 It's worth noting that an articles comment section doesn't really tell you what the majority of it's readers thought, only what a certain subset that felt strongly enough and felt the need to have their opinions heard. It's not really a good barometer for, well, anything, besides the particular subset of people that post in comments sections I guess. The average reader isn't really looking at top ten lists or whatever for a valuation at their own opinion, more out of idle curiosity; "Hey what did gaming site X think" and so soon. Maybe I'm trying too hard not to be cynical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tegan Posted January 2, 2014 I think it's pretty much expected that comments sections are hives of scum and villainy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 2, 2014 I feel like people who just want the most popular game to win GOTY.cx already have a ranking. It's called the annual sales chart. They just need to come to grips with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmuerte Posted January 2, 2014 PC gaming is niche!? A market that is larger than either console market segment is niche? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reyturner Posted January 2, 2014 It is in a population that cares deeply and vociferously about IGN's GOTY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 2, 2014 PC gaming is niche!? A market that is larger than either console market segment is niche?I said non-casual PC gaming. Sales for something like Call of Duty are way lower on PC than on consoles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 2, 2014 So... all this talk about objective game reviews may have caused me to do something silly yesterday evening. Specifically, I may have purchased a domain name and hosting space and then created a website... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted January 2, 2014 Thing that caught my ear because of this conversation: Watching Part 1 of Polygon's Besties GOTY, heard Justin McElroy say that Link to the Past is the best game of all time and Oblivion is his favorite game of all time. A man after my own heart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted January 2, 2014 So... all this talk about objective game reviews may have caused me to do something silly yesterday evening. Specifically, I may have purchased a domain name and hosting space and then created a website... That will be useful for linking to in future blog comment arguments! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feelthedarkness Posted January 2, 2014 So... all this talk about objective game reviews may have caused me to do something silly yesterday evening. Specifically, I may have purchased a domain name and hosting space and then created a website... amazing! How will you feel is this catches on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted January 2, 2014 It sure as shit is catching on with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TychoCelchuuu Posted January 2, 2014 amazing! How will you feel is this catches on?Good about my Google ad revenue, bad about humanity. So, overall a wash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
