Jake

Dota Today 1: QOP Top and POTM Bottom

Recommended Posts

"When I'm not making and playing the Dota, I'm listening to Dota Today." - Gabe Newell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You seem like a complete asshole.

Yyyyeah, he's not the cone coming off as an asshole here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These patch notes are crazy! Hope we get some talk about these, even just for heroes you guys use a lot. I think AA aghs ulti is amazing, but a lot of it is great!

Edit: I missed the e-mail for questions, what is it again?

And omni's!

I think the address is [email protected].

Man, I wish I had a playable Internet connection:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah Omni's is baller.

 

But as I said in the DOTA 2 thread... EARTH SPIRIT. I CAN'T WAIT.

 

Also now we have three threads across which Dota can be discussed and it makes me feel scared. U:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really enjoyed the cast! It's fun hearing the enthusiasm. I enjoyed your post Corelli, it's fun to hear people with both sides of perspective talk about this stuff.

 

Looking forward to going to dota.giantbomb.net for more continuing DOTA coverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed your post Corelli, it's fun to hear people with both sides of perspective talk about this stuff.

Thanks! They're different games and I really like both of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really liked reading your thoughts Corelli, but I do have things to say about the hero design:

 

(some of this might go into an lords directed email later but whatever)

 

This ends up being the biggest deciding factor in LoMas for me, particularly in the case of LoL. 

 

First, the meta stuff. League does this thing where you can attribute points and money outside of a game into boosts and abilities that help you inside the game, which I find extremely strange. Flash (the LoL equiv. of a blinkdagger) and Heal are spells that anybody playing any hero can use. Switching between roles also means switching out your jungling build for a top lane build. It's a quality unique to LoL that I absolutely do not care for whatsoever, simply because I don't think it adds anything substantial to the game other than to differentiate it from Dota I guess. Nothing about it seems skillful and some of it even feels insignificant, like having slightly more (like 4.5) ability power at max level, in a game where AP tends to reach the hundreds.

 

 

In terms of sheer numbers, League has a lot of extremely interesting, varied heroes. but like most of you I absolutely hate the thematic clusterfuck that is the league roster. While Zac and Annie are great heroes, one is a green blob that whips around the map cartoonishly and little-girl-who-is-paradoxically-violent is not a clever or original idea. The recent

 looks great, really, but just is the dumbest thing ever! Gunslinger vs a scarecrow and dragon hand guy vs some human people and a little girl with a magic teddy bear. not to mention how nearly every female hero in the game has an exposed middrift and huge tits in at least one of their many skins.

 

Pudge is a really good example of a hero who is consistent both thematically and design-wise. It's sort of like what Chris Remo was saying about how Tetris or Halo enemies sort of represent the execution of a simplistic, specific idea. All of Pudge's abilities work splendidly together - hook, stink and eat. Eat to immobilize, hook to move people around, stink to do crowd control. Do all three to completely wreck shop. All of Pudge's abilities are built around the idea of control, the ability to manipulate others. This is also reflected the aesthetic of a huge frightening monster man with guts hanging out, someone that you wouldn't want to be near, ever. His closest counterpart in LoL, Blitzcrank, is jack shit compared to him. 

 

That's not to say that LoL doesn't have any of those really elemental-feeling heroes. Syndra is just sort of vague magic lady thematically, but her abilities game-wise are really coherent, all involving this constant juggling act with her magical spheres. However there are a lot of heroes in LoL that seem to just be:

 

Q - do damage

W - do more damage in a circle

E - passively do damage

R - do a lot of damage

 

There really is way too much to say about this, so I'll stop there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gunslinger vs a scarecrow and dragon hand guy vs some human people and a little girl with a magic teddy bear.

I mean Dota is the same thing. "Take a bunch of random fantasy shit and THROW IT ALL IN A POT. Boil, stir, presto! Dota."

 

Ditto on the midriff/tits thing. Dota has significantly fewer female heroes, which is probably why League seems much more egregious about it. Also I guess Dota is more restrained in terms of bust-size. But plenty of cleavage to go around. Drow, Windrunner, Queen of Pain, Mirana, Vengeful (even though she's more ethereal about it), Templar Assassin, CRYSTAL MAIDEN WEARING FURS WHAT, Lina.

 

Exceptions besides the straight-up-monster ladies: Phantom Assassin, and Luna (who makes up for it with a skin-tight leather outfit), Death Prophet?

 

Monster-ish: Enchantress (bare midriff despite being deertaur thing), Medusa, Naga, and Broodmother (but well, dat ass, right?!).

 

That's pretty much all of the females, I think?

 

Yeah I just looked through the list of heroes and dumped the females in various groups. I am horrible. ):

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say that Dota 2's random fantasy mishmash is generally more stylistically consistent then LoL, though, at least as far as character design goes. Dota 2 is all blended together, where as League still has half-dissolved pieces floating around in the pot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean Dota is the same thing. "Take a bunch of random fantasy shit and THROW IT ALL IN A POT. Boil, stir, presto! Dota."

 

Yeah I guess that's kind of bullshit on my part. I think what I mean is that at least all the splash art for Dota looks like it was done by the same person, under some sort of established style guide. The cellshaded quality of LoL's champion models also accentuate how out of place they all look.

 

EDIT: What Ben said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah that I can definitely agree with. League is very... all over the place in terms of style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a bit off-topic, but while we're on the topic of incongruous female character design in Dota 2, does anyone know how Valve has managed to keep using a character that is the protagonist of another company's massive anime/manga/light novel franchise? I mean, the new version of Lina dropped her last name, but three of her four spells are still exactly the same.

 

It weirds me out a little every time I see her in action. I don't know if Valve would take too kindly to a TV show with a silent, crowbar-wielding goatee dude named Gordon in its cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New podcast makes me happy. Loving the Dota. Hope you guys get some guests in future episodes. Knowing how many game developers/journalists play dota I'm sure it wouldn't be hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't have any hard commits but I think Mr. Shoemaker from that other website will be on after E3. Probably a couple of TTG guys. I'd love to get Merlini on; possibly some folks from the polycount/item community; any suggestions are definitely welcome!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These patch notes are crazy! Hope we get some talk about these, even just for heroes you guys use a lot. I think AA aghs ulti is amazing, but a lot of it is great!

 

Edit: I missed the e-mail for questions, what is it again?

 

One thing thats really standout about dota compared to almost any other game is Icefrogs balance ideals. Whereas other games almost universally balance by using small, incremental number tweaks The Frog balances laterally, throwing more crazy shit in. Its really refreshing, and reminds me of an older school (ie. games like Diablo2 or Broodwar) where things were 'balanced' by the devs by letting systems of sufficient complexity balance themselves.

 

Broodwar would go through phases where one race would be dominating, and a month later things would be back on par - not because of feverish, overbearing tweaking by blizzard, but simply because the game was so mechanically dense that something would be discovered, and it kept the game from getting stale at the pro level.

 

Or in Diablo 2's case: it was okay that things where broken, that there were a million affixes of questionable usefulness, and that 99% of players had no idea how any of the deeper, obfuscated, mechanics worked. It didn't matter because it was interesting. (one of diablo 3's biggest failings (after the RMAH) was homogenizing items into utter blandness, an issue they've taken pains to remedy with the new legendarys, but they've still rather missed the point).

 

dota patches are still fun to read after all these years. Necrolytes aghs upgrade makes heros unable to buy back for that death (hilarious), suicide with a bloodstone, empty bottles make couriers slower, etc. All balance changes to under/overpowered things that add even more depth to the game.

 

One of my favorite balance changes was a while back to Shadowfiend. He's wasn't terrible by any stretch, but definitely not in the top tier. How could we buff him a bit, Icefrog?

   -Shadowfiend now explodes on death

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean Dota is the same thing. "Take a bunch of random fantasy shit and THROW IT ALL IN A POT. Boil, stir, presto! Dota."

 

Ditto on the midriff/tits thing. Dota has significantly fewer female heroes, which is probably why League seems much more egregious about it. Also I guess Dota is more restrained in terms of bust-size. But plenty of cleavage to go around. Drow, Windrunner, Queen of Pain, Mirana, Vengeful (even though she's more ethereal about it), Templar Assassin, CRYSTAL MAIDEN WEARING FURS WHAT, Lina.

 

Exceptions besides the straight-up-monster ladies: Phantom Assassin, and Luna (who makes up for it with a skin-tight leather outfit), Death Prophet?

 

Monster-ish: Enchantress (bare midriff despite being deertaur thing), Medusa, Naga, and Broodmother (but well, dat ass, right?!).

 

That's pretty much all of the females, I think?

 

Yeah I just looked through the list of heroes and dumped the females in various groups. I am horrible. ):

 

You forgot my #1 gal, Spectre.  They're also making Legion Commander be a female, which I don't really like just because I'm so used to him being this dude with the big mustache going around dueling bros.

 

f1334218175.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did forget about Spectre! I'M SORRY.

 

I like that they're finally making a strength-based female hero. Hah.

 

On the other hand, I love me a dorf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also in horrible thoughts, realizing windrunner wasn't top heavy at all and thinking "wow, progessive"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't have any hard commits but I think Mr. Shoemaker from that other website will be on after E3. Probably a couple of TTG guys. I'd love to get Merlini on; possibly some folks from the polycount/item community; any suggestions are definitely welcome!

I'd also love you to get Merlini on. That guy's rad. He's one of the few streamers who actively tries to teach while he's playing. "This is why I'm doing X, Y, or Z." Decent caster, too.

 

Also in horrible thoughts, realizing windrunner wasn't top heavy at all and thinking "wow, progessive"

I uh every time I play as her, I'm confused when she's so flatchested. And then I laugh at myself for being an awkward human being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started the episode, but since Jake is not on this podcast I doubt anyone is going to pronounce the title as "Dota T'Dota," which is how my brain immediately said it.

 

I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Dotato Day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now