I Had A Random Thought...

[eot]

I get so annoyed at Apple. Apparently OSX nowadays defaults to a setting where it autosaves any changes you make to an open file and doesn't prompt you to save them. Who the hell though that was a good idea? It saves the changes continuously even if you 'disable' it, and when it prompts you to save the changes at the end what it's actually doing is prompting you to restore an older version of the file (so if the program crashes the file is actually saved). Even worse, I went to demonstrate the issue for someone, made a COPY of a file, messed with it without saving, and OSX went ahead and not only altered the copy but the original as well. It even went so far as to change the file in the clipboard so I couldn't paste the original. Are you kidding me? Fuck you Apple.

[SuperBiasedMan]

I partially disagree

 

The "dragon rift" idea is a huge emotional point for the mother, as she gave up before really trying and Hiccup managed to succeed, making her pretty much the worst mother ever, yet her husband and son accept her back. That was the major emotional focus of the film, which was somewhat ruined by the magical dragon controlling guy showing up and the writers just feeling like they had to kill someone I guess.

That actually is something I was trying to get at in a roundabout way. When I say a mess I mean there were good pieces that didn't fit. There was worth in the film but it didn't come together to make a solid coherent story underneath it all so I think that overall the film doesn't work, like if you just haphazardly attached four quarters of different famous paintings, the corners might be nice but you probably wont make a good painting.

[Dewar]

Ah, I definitely agree with that then. That seems to be a problem with a lot of animated sequels. A lot of different cool ideas that either got left on the cutting room floor from the last movie or new ideas that new directors bring in all get combined together and don't really quite mesh. I suppose it's a problem with all sequels, just that animated films seem to almost always get at least one direct to DVD movie these days, I guess to try and extend the value of the assets?

[syntheticgerbil]

People were obviously hoping for Song of the Sea, I haven't even been able to see it yet so I really can't say if the film deserves it but I know the Disney ones didn't since Boxtrolls was better, even though there was still plenty of room to improve over that for the other two movies.

What?! How?! I'm eagerly waiting for a release in one of the theatres around here.

 

But yeah Oscars are always rigged for whatever Calarts trash has came out most recently, just only the Disney or Pixar Calarts trash. I think there was a thing released last year that showed that most of the judges don't even watch all of the films on the list anyway. They probably just see whatever crap that their kids drag them to and then vote on that.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Yeah, it's definitely a lot of that. Also it seems like a successful first film essentially guarantees a dependable box office return if you even make a passing effort at your next film so you'll throw some money onto a new one but you wont be as worried about it as a 'new IP'.

 

Plus you end up having a degree of baggage with having to continue what the first film established. Hiccup's girlfriend is essentially irrelevant in the second movie. His friends could have fulfilled the same role as her and their relationship was meaningless. But if they wrote her out in some way, that would require an actual plot motivation and screentime.

[SuperBiasedMan]

What?! How?! I'm eagerly waiting for a release in one of the theatres around here.

 

But yeah Oscars are always rigged for whatever Calarts trash has came out most recently, just only the Disney or Pixar Calarts trash. I think there was a thing released last year that showed that most of the judges don't even watch all of the films on the list anyway. They probably just see whatever crap that their kids drag them to and then vote on that.

 

It's apparently really hard to manage all that release stuff, so Cartoon Saloon has to figure out all sorts of deals and stuff that I know nothing about.

Also all the biggest awards are in mainland Europe and over there so it makes sense to push it out sooner in those areas.

[tegan]

But yeah Oscars are always rigged for whatever Calarts trash has came out most recently, just only the Disney or Pixar Calarts trash. I think there was a thing released last year that showed that most of the judges don't even watch all of the films on the list anyway. They probably just see whatever crap that their kids drag them to and then vote on that.

 

I posted about this last year a little; most of the Oscar judges were extremely dismissive and insulting toward the animated candidates, though thankfully most of the ones that were abstained from voting. Even so, it's still hardly beneficial for the most prolific award for animation to be decided by people whose attitudes toward the medium seem to vary from indifference to disdain.

[syntheticgerbil]

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that animation should not be a separate category, since it's not a genre, however I can totally understand why it is because we only make one type of animated film in the United States. So it's judging which one has the best fake bloopers during the credits with the inevitable fart joke.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Also if they were part of best film animated movies would never win and likely not be nominated.

[tegan]

Also if they were part of best film animated movies would never win and likely not be nominated.

 

They are part of Best Film! There have only ever been three nominees: Beauty and the Beast (which came so close to winning that they added the "Best Animated Film" category so that they wouldn't have to associate with the riffraff), Up, and Toy Story 3.

[SuperBiasedMan]

They are part of Best Film! There have only ever been three nominees: Beauty and the Beast (which came so close to winning that they added the "Best Animated Film" category so that they wouldn't have to associate with the riffraff), Up, and Toy Story 3.

I stand corrected! I knew that Beauty and the Beast was nominated and served as the impetus to make the category but I didn't know that Up and Toy Story still got nominations.

[syntheticgerbil]

If that's the case they should get rid of the animated category, that makes very little sense.

 

Also Up was such garbage. I'll never get it.

[Zeusthecat]

If that's the case they should get rid of the animated category, that makes very little sense.

 

Also Up was such garbage. I'll never get it.

 

Thank you for saying what I was thinking! For Up to be one of only 3 animated movies to make that category utterly baffles me. The whole second half of the movie makes no sense and is full of talking dogs flying miniature planes and a really old dude inexplicably zip-lining between aircraft. He had to use that chair thing to get down the stairs in his house at the beginning and yet he had the strength to do death defying aerial stunts.

 

I just hate when movies start out with a somewhat realistic premise, build it for a little while, and then throw talking dogs and stupid shit like that into it. Also, how is his childhood idol somehow younger and more nimble looking than he is? That dude had to have been 30 years older than him at least which would have made him what, 110?

[Patrick R]

Up is by far my favorite Pixar movie. I strongly disagree that it starts off with a somewhat realistic premise.

[Zeusthecat]

Up is by far my favorite Pixar movie. I strongly disagree that it starts off with a somewhat realistic premise.

 

It's not perfect at the beginning but it's a hell of a lot more grounded in reality than the second half where there are talking dogs and a magical dude who stopped aging at 60.

 

Plus, didn't someone actually try this with a small house once as an experiment?

 

Yes, yes they did

 

[Merus]

I imagine the subtitle of Up is The Benefits Of Exercise.

[tegan]

There's a lot of really interesting stuff on the Up Blu-Ray about the intentions and the process behind it. Muntz is basically kept alive and relatively spry by sheer tenacity; he refuses to die until he finds the bird. The original ending had him get lost in the labyrinth of the "twisty rocks," with the implication that he'll be obsessively hunting shadows in the mist forever. Another ending had him get caught on more balloons at the end and, instead of falling to his death, he just floated away screaming, never to be seen again.* I have a hard time watching it now because it's so disjointed and doesn't make a cohesive whole, but I recognize that most individual scenes from Up are all pretty great and admire their original aspirations.

 

*he's still the billionth Disney villain to fall to his death, but this would have been the second instance of one dying by falling up.

[syntheticgerbil]

Thank you for saying what I was thinking! For Up to be one of only 3 animated movies to make that category utterly baffles me. The whole second half of the movie makes no sense and is full of talking dogs flying miniature planes and a really old dude inexplicably zip-lining between aircraft. He had to use that chair thing to get down the stairs in his house at the beginning and yet he had the strength to do death defying aerial stunts.

 

I just hate when movies start out with a somewhat realistic premise, build it for a little while, and then throw talking dogs and stupid shit like that into it. Also, how is his childhood idol somehow younger and more nimble looking than he is? That dude had to have been 30 years older than him at least which would have made him what, 110?

That's exactly how I feel, the emotional hand that an adult might appreciate was played right off right off the bat and then you end up with a bunch of junk that is too stupid for children and everyone else.

 

To me Up is sort of a perfect testament to the California circle jerk and everything that's wrong with U.S. animation now. It's all packaged in this neat formula that is created for the sole purpose of making something for all ages to enjoy. You can't have anything too scary as that would scare kids who are too young, you can't have anything too talky or grounded as that will bore every kid, and you can't have any kind of action outside of the obligatory chase sequence and light comedic violence and/or a dance sequence ending the movie (as Dreamworks does).

 

I guess The Iron Giant and whatever Dreamworks was attempting in the 90s failed financially and also marked the final end of an era in the 80s where we had a lot of animated films with more dark or heavy sequences that were thrilling to me as a kid whether it was a bad movie or not. Also the beauty of The Iron Giant is it's written and directed as more of a grounded live action film (also has swearing not intentionally cut), and is not afraid of using fantastical elements when necessary, which is something animation can be great at instead of spending 80 minutes focusing on talking fish with their fish problems or something.

 

But I also dislike pretty much every Pixar movie besides the first Toy Story and aspects of the Brad Bird stuff, so I guess that may say something.

[Patrick R]

I bought a ticket for a movie about a cranky old man who says "farewell jerks" and fucks off in a flying balloon house, so I was not disappointed when it turned out to be fantastical and not rooted in darkness (though, at the same time, not untouched by it). 

 

Also, Up makes me cry like a baby in two separate scenes every time I see it. Ratatouille is more interesting and beautiful, but Up turns me into a soggy sobbing heap.

[N1njaSquirrel]

*he's still the billionth Disney villain to fall to his death, but this would have been the second instance of one dying by falling up.

 

Wouldn't he die by falling when the balloon he's riding on pops as it reaches the stratosphere?

[tegan]

Wouldn't he die by falling when the balloon he's riding on pops as it reaches the stratosphere?

 

Probably! The important thing is that it gets Muntz out of the way without making any of the characters responsible for his death, which is why so many Disney villains die by falling.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Gravity is the real Disney villain.

I liked Up because the bird was hilarious.

[SuperBiasedMan]

I like how the hero can't kill the villain but they must still always die. I've been hearing lately that children's media contains a lot more deaths than other media (whether on screen or just informed eg. My parents died when I was little)

[tegan]

I like how the hero can't kill the villain but they must still always die. I've been hearing lately that children's media contains a lot more deaths than other media (whether on screen or just informed eg. My parents died when I was little)

 

The only animated Disney films I can think of in which both parents of the protagonist are confirmed to be alive throughout the entire movie are 101 Dalmations, Peter Pan, Mulan, Tangled, The Incredibles, and Brave (and Mary Poppins if you want to count that). Killing them off is a convenient way to keep them out of the protagonist's hair so that they can grow and learn lessons for themselves without having their parents willingly abandon them. It's a lazily overused trope.

[SecretAsianMan]

The only animated Disney films I can think of in which both parents of the protagonist are confirmed to be alive throughout the entire movie are 101 Dalmations, Peter Pan, Mulan, Tangled, The Incredibles, and Brave (and Mary Poppins if you want to count that). Killing them off is a convenient way to keep them out of the protagonist's hair so that they can grow and learn lessons for themselves without having their parents willingly abandon them. It's a lazily overused trope.

 

Sleeping Beauty's parents don't die