Patrick R Posted February 22, 2015 Honestly, for me personally, it's more of a problem with minor public figures than anyone else. Like, I follow all the Thumbs and other developers on Twitter, so frequently their conversations with each other fill my feed and it can be hard to remember that they are talking with their friends, of which I am not one, because you listen to a group of friends talk for hundreds of hours they start to feel like your friends. So then Steve and Jake talk about a Dissolve article on a Billy Wilder movie they never heard of and I've seen it I wanna be like "Oo, I've seen it, I can add to this!" but probably I should just let them have their conversation. Which isn't what I did, instead I was like "Oo, I've seen it, I can add to this!" It works the other way too. Listeners of my podcast often butt into my tweets in kind of invasive ways, like when I was depressed one day and someone kept insisting that I shouldn't be because my podcast was great and if he had a podcast like that HE wouldn't be depressed, why can't I just realize how cool my life is, etc. Which is the worst kind of flattering. I just want to yell "WHO YOU, I DON' KNOW YOU". But I think as far as social spaces go, Twitter is still pretty young, so the etiquette is still being formed. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But a lot of that article isn't about the nuances of social interactions between strangers in public online spaces, it's just "Don't be a pest and try to double-check yourself all the time to catch yourself." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted February 22, 2015 Edit: Long before GG, I saw @rare_basement tweeting that she wished she could only see @s from people she followed and not randos. It'd be a good feature, and I'm surprised it hasn't made it into any clients. Is this not what you're talking about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Cider Posted February 22, 2015 RE: The jokes thing I love riffs and joking but the stuff being discussed here is usually a really unfunny repeat of whatever joke you made. What's even worse is when people specifically don't understand that I have a dry sense of humor and frequently use exaggerated rhetorical questions and people respond to me literally. Heh. I should really just copy paste replies I get to stuff sometimes. It's gotten better since this article though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nachimir Posted February 22, 2015 Is this not what you're talking about? Oh, yes! I didn't realise they'd implemented that, and I'm almost certain they hadn't at the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merus Posted February 23, 2015 I love riffs and joking but the stuff being discussed here is usually a really unfunny repeat of whatever joke you made. What's even worse is when people specifically don't understand that I have a dry sense of humor and frequently use exaggerated rhetorical questions and people respond to me literally. Heh. I should really just copy paste replies I get to stuff sometimes. It's gotten better since this article though. Yeah, there's a clear difference between riffing and just making the same joke again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marblize Posted February 23, 2015 Even riffing sometimes comes off as one-upmanship I think. As a pretty neurotic person, lately I only tweet at people who don't follow me if they're waxing about something really interesting and I think I have something actually valuable to contribute that's not an argument, and even then i usually qualify that I'm sorry if I'm butting in. Maybe this is overkill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah, there's a clear difference between riffing and just making the same joke again. There is, but it is also modeling the same kind of behavior that people do offline. That's the point I was trying to make, there are behaviors we engage in offline, amongst people we know, that don't translate online. But a combination of the pseudo-familiarity of the internet, particularly with social networks, and privilege lead to something like the joke repetition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juv3nal Posted February 23, 2015 Is this not what you're talking about? I believe that only hides the notifications, but you might still see them if you're going through your timeline, but I could be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Problem Machine Posted February 23, 2015 Man, it drives me craaazy when I make a joke, it gets no reaction, and then someone makes the same joke but a level more obvious and it gets a big laugh. I can only imagine it happens a lot more to funny ladies, since people aren't as primed to pick up on it. Man that would make me so mad, haha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted February 23, 2015 The joke thing is, as with all humor, really about getting a feeling of what's appropriate, how far you can go, how much has or hasn't been said... and as always, err on the side of caution. Worse is, I think, the 'imitating bad dudes' behavior. Of course I've also done this, but recently I've stopped because a.) it was too easy, b.) the line between actual harassment and faux harrassment is way too fine. As the article says, it's self-serving. And yes, don't do that stuff publicly. I mean, I will do a hilarious Hitler dress-up for a poker game with friends, and brag about it on the Idle Thumbs Forums Feminism Thread, but I wouldn't put that shit online. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonCole Posted February 23, 2015 I have a renewed outlook on jokes on Twitter due to the fact that one day I noticed a lot of people I follow tweeting at the community manager of a game company. Her name was familiar to me and I saw that she was into Japanese culture, so I was primed to follow her. When I attempted to, I realized that I was blocked by her. For a brief moment I considered the possibility that I landed on some blocklist, but was able to count that possibility out. Seeing as I have never before known of myself being blocked by someone I actually would want to tweet at, I looked through my tweet history for any mention of her previously. I noticed that a week before I made a joke to someone I follow emulating the stupidity of a GG person. I gather that my emulation seemed like genuine GG status to this third-party who blocked me offhand. In the moment I'm sure it seemed clever of me, but it's pretty clear in hindsight that I'd be the only person to really enjoy that joke. It's a pretty specific situation, but it just demonstrated to me that even a topical joke made to someone I'm moderately familiar with has opportunity to put someone off that's not even related to the conversation at hand. If it can have that effect on a third-party, the potential for a poorly worded or timed joke to put off someone I'm trying to be friendly with is real. So now I just look both ways before I joke, mostly to make sure that it's really worth doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Cider Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah, that's why satire when you're part of the group being satirized falls flat a lot - if I don't know you, you pretending to be someone harmful to me is very hard to distinguish. It's hard to reach that rhetorical distance that makes the joke funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted February 23, 2015 In case you weren't aware, the new version of Marvel's Thor is a woman. Naturally this has been met with lots of outcry about feminism ruining the character and other idiotic sentiments. The latest issue features these scenes So what does the new Thor do in response? She punches him in the face and breaks his jaw for "saying 'feminist' like it's a four letter word". Oh, and also a robbery or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Cider Posted February 23, 2015 I could always rail on the idea of feminism or women being acceptable when they embody typically masculine ideas of performance (using violence to solve issues) but part of me absolutely would love to break the jaw of some dude mouthing off to me. However, can someone explain to me what kind of villain this guy is, he just looks like a giant dark brute and that archetype tends to not sit right with me usually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reyturner Posted February 23, 2015 I'm pretty sure that's the Absorbing Man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argobot Posted February 23, 2015 I don't ever read comics, so maybe I'm not accustomed to the style, but is the dialogue usually that on the nose? It comes of as really silly and childish to me. I'm all for more inclusion in all media, but I really can't stand it when a commercial entity does the least amount of work (gender swap!) and waits expectantly for a pat on the back for being so progressive. You can say 'Thor is a woman' all you want, but you better have something to actually back that up with. Thor is a woman but she does everything just like a man so if you squint you cant really tell the difference, is just lazy and boring. Edit: I want to add that I know comics are generally targeted at younger people, even though plenty of adults read them. When I say that the dialogue is childish, I don't mean that it's written so that a child will understand it, I mean that it has a very immature outlook of feminism/gender that I think even most children would have a better understanding of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted February 23, 2015 I don't ever read comics, so maybe I'm not accustomed to the style, but is the dialogue usually that on the nose? It comes of as really silly and childish to me. I'm all for more inclusion in all media, but I really can't stand it when a commercial entity does the least amount of work (gender swap!) and waits expectantly for a pat on the back for being so progressive. You can say 'Thor is a woman' all you want, but you better have something to actually back that up with. Thor is a woman but she does everything just like a man so if you squint you cant really tell the difference, is just lazy and boring. Edit: I want to add that I know comics are generally targeted at younger people, even though plenty of adults read them. When I say that the dialogue is childish, I don't mean that it's written so that a child will understand it, I mean that it has a very immature outlook of feminism/gender that I think even most children would have a better understanding of. Yes, most comics are that on-the-nose. I enjoy the occasion when they manage a more subtle joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted February 23, 2015 I'm pretty sure that's the Absorbing Man. This is correct. I don't ever read comics, so maybe I'm not accustomed to the style, but is the dialogue usually that on the nose? It comes of as really silly and childish to me. I'm all for more inclusion in all media, but I really can't stand it when a commercial entity does the least amount of work (gender swap!) and waits expectantly for a pat on the back for being so progressive. You can say 'Thor is a woman' all you want, but you better have something to actually back that up with. Thor is a woman but she does everything just like a man so if you squint you cant really tell the difference, is just lazy and boring. The new series just started (those panels were taken from issue number 5) so it's hard to say how the character being a woman will change things. It hasn't even yet been revealed who she really is or what happened to the old Thor. In this specific instance, they were very much trying to be on the nose and responding to criticism over the decision. To get into it a little more nerdily, it's worth noting that Thor is mainly identified by the hammer Mjolnir. The hammer carries an enchantment that only allows the worthy to wield it. Something happened to the old Thor that made him unworthy (at this point its still unknown what) and its picked up by a mystery woman. The reason this could be important is that Thor isn't just a character, in a way it's an ideal, one that's gender blind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apple Cider Posted February 23, 2015 I can definitely see what you're saying Argo - I mean, have feminists even explicitly appeared in Thor, ever? So calling her a feminist reads very "the author is coming through in the words" a little too strong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reyturner Posted February 23, 2015 Mainstream Super Hero comics are a lot like professional wrestling. Where they used to be super defensive about being real and gritty and serious, they've now gotten to the point where they're not trying to be anything but what they are, and are embracing the historically corny awkward style. They've also started speaking directly to their tuned in audience, with references to comic blogs, real world business stuff, irl controversies, etc. Weird meta nods like this are super common. I doubt this was the culmination of any big story arc, as much as a couple panel meta gag who's primary purpose is setting up the "real" story of the issue. The writer, Jason Aaron, doesn't really seem to have a history of activist writing; he's just Comics Writer McWhiteguy. In his own words, he isn't really aiming to make a point with this, beyond mocking reactionaries complaining about feminism ruining comics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperBiasedMan Posted February 23, 2015 Surface level good token representation is so irritating, it's essentially just for good PR these days. If you want to be optimistic, it's good that social justice is a viable market, but it's not worthwhile to see a Marvel comic gender swap a single character and make no other changes. Why not gender swap a bunch so that the gender numbers are actually more accurate to real life. Then rewrite some characters and give them interesting arcs that aren't sexist but maybe pertain to not being a dude? Oh right, for all the reasons that that's counterproductive to their entire business as well as the fact that they don't actually care to make a real effort at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted February 23, 2015 Thor in particular is an interesting story because it could be told with anyone in the "new Thor" roll. The first Thor movie had a bit about him not being worthy to lift the hammer anymore, and I think it's happened a few times in the character's past, though I don't think anyone has specifically become Thor, rather than just lifting the hammer and using it briefly in his stead. In some ways it's good that the "this could be any character" slot was filled by a woman this time, regardless of the reasoning. It's irritating if it's done for the press, but if it happens enough it becomes a habit I guess? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argobot Posted February 23, 2015 I just don't like the idea of supporting feminism being boiled down to what you buy, but maybe I'm over exaggerating how dire the situation is. Everything is a commodity, even values. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick R Posted February 23, 2015 Yes! Intersectionality! So important (as Patricia Arquette probably knows right about now)! Feminism achieved through capitalism is very problematic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
