Feminism

[Bjorn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL7_LetEm-ez8YH4XGJPdSXgg1oTMZ0n5T&v=qVO3sNcJ7A8&feature=player_embedded

[Bjorn]

Fascinating piece on the war against venereal disease in WW2, in which the military turned its propaganda wing towards soldiers' health and in so doing, elevated women to an equal or greater threat to America than either Japan or Germany.

[Apple Cider]

I'm impressed by that level of equivocation.

[Twig]

This morning, I heard someone who has previously said, "We don't need feminism. If you don't like it, don't buy it," go off on a rant about how Twilight and similar is ruining women because it makes them expect something out of men that isn't reasonable.

 

UUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Argobot]

I read The Love Affairs of Nathanial P by Adelle Waldman this weekend. This book had a lot of fanfare when it came out in 2013, and I must admit that this book deserves a lot of the praise it received. It's the first book from this generation that I think does a really excellent job of capturing what relationships and the interaction between men and women feel like (sadly limited to a heterosexual perspective). I'm desperate to get men to read this book, both because I think it would be incredibly value and because I want to know if it tracks with their own personal experiences. I probably shouldn't be posting this in the feminist thread, but I'm using the excuse that it is, if not a feminist book, certainly a book about women and society.

 

Here's a review from the New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/love-actually

 

Really recommend it to anyone who might be interested in the subject!

[Gwardinen]

I'm in the market for a new book, this sounds interesting enough to give a shot to.

[Apple Cider]

I think it's definitely germane to the feminist thread if there's value in the book from a feminist perspective I will have to see if I can pick this up. 

[Reyturner]

Based on the review I doubt I'd relate to this character's experience at all but, as far as I'm concerned, that's a reason in itself to read a book. 

[Argobot]

At the beginning of December, I was diagnosed with an early stage breast cancer.* Yesterday, the chemotherapy I am on finally made my hair fall out, so I shaved my head. On top of all that, I am engaged. Both these experiences are making me reevaluate my idea of femininity and what "being a woman" means. I already knew that a lot of the more stereotypical parts of being an engaged straight woman didn't appeal to me (no diamond ring, no here comes the brides, no plans to change my name, etc), but what I didn't know was how much some of that stuff I would find appealing. Meanwhile, dealing with a cancer that is affecting such a female part of my body, and knowing that by the time I get married it will be with a newly reconstructed body, has led to a lot of questioning. Will I still consider myself a woman if I get a double mastectomy? If I lose my hair? (Answered this one last night: yes) If I can't breastfeed my children?

 

The children question looms large for me, both in regards to marriage and the cancer. I always knew I wanted a kid, but I didn't realize how strongly until I was confronted with the possibility that it might not happen. What does it say about me as a future partner and mother if I needed fertility treatment (that was incredibly successful, I should say) to preserve my reproductive ability?

 

I know that I still am a woman because that's how I choose to identify, but since I was born in the biological body that most fits me, I've never had to think about what being a woman means. It's kind of a nice benefit of all this bullshit and my hope is that I will come out the other side with a better appreciation and sympathy for those who struggle with this question their entire lives and not just in a temporary way like I am.

 

*If you follow me on Twitter, you probably are already aware of the diagnosis. I don't want to turn this into a thing. All things considered, I'm doing really well. Still in grad school, still running, still reading a ton, etc. I'm posting this here because I trust this forum, and this particular part of the forum, to not treat me any differently. I still think that Chait piece was mostly correct and hope that all of you who disagreed would continue to disagree with the same vigor and honesty. I know that sick people can make the healthy uncomfortable, so I will try to limit my references to the cancer. Thoughts of womanhood and femaleness have been pretty constant and I thought this would be a good place to share.

[Ben X]

Fuck, that's rough. Thanks for sharing, it's very interesting. And congrats on the engagement!

[SecretAsianMan]

Also for what it's worth, I think those pictures you tweeted after you shaved make you look badass.  You reminded me of Ridley from the Alien movies.

[Bjorn]

Argobot, I hope the treatments continue to go well, and you get better soon.  You're an awesome person, and I'm sure you'll continue being awesome, even if your body does go through changes. 

 

And thank you for sharing your thoughts about it in the context of this thread.  In the last couple of years, I've had two friends go through hysterectomies, and they talked about how that made them feel about their womanhood/female identity, but I've never really seen someone speak about the experience of breast cancer and how that made them feel (I know there are quite a few women who have written about that, just nothing I've ever gone and read). 

[syntheticgerbil]

Sorry to hear all of that Sarah. I hope the cancer just ends up being a small blip on a much longer lifetime.

[Apple Cider]

I can't empathize with you directly, Sara, as I haven't gotten cancer myself but my mother struggled with early stage breast cancer herself and due to it being the late 80s, had to get a radical mastectomy to one of her breasts. She got a fake boob prosthetic since I think it was still kinda early in the days of offering constructive surgery and I know she struggled with that same awareness. But she was already a mom and married so I think it's a bit different. Mostly I am just saying this because I think your thoughts are important and I wish you well on your continued health and recovery. 

 

I'm a cis woman but I still have those kinds of thoughts regularly - I'm unmarried and don't want kids and have recently found out in the last couple of years that I cannot actually have kids by any easy stretch of the imagination. It's an odd intersection of infertility and actual desires running parallel vs. being at odds with eachother but the reason I'm infertile or rather, incapable of being pregnant is because I have a chronic illness that fucks with my hormones, meaning I exhibit many things that make me look less feminine - extra body hair, gaining weight in more "masculine" places (like my stomach) and facial hair. It's not super noticeable but it's enough that you can tell I have a bit of a beard. IT's definitely shaken me up a tiny bit, even as a really hardcore feminist. It took me even a long time to get over the whole "not shaving my legs" thing.  On the flipside to this, it has made me more aware that EVEN IF I do not conform to feminine visual appearances, because I am cis, I almost never am misgendered and it's never at a level that trans women have to deal with, so it's in that way shown me what kind of privilege I have as a cis woman.

 

anyways, all of that rambling just to say that I understand what you're going through at least in a little way. (Also I was super punk as a teen and shaved off all my hair regularly - it's fairly liberating! But now I have grown my hair out very long because as a fat woman, I feel like I would look "bad" if it was short, so in that way, some of that stuff still kicks around in here.)

[feelthedarkness]

Yo, I've seen the posting on twitter, and say that I subscribe to the sort of unscientific theory that attitude plays a role in healing, and that your attitude has been nothing short of heroic. I truly hope things continue to go smooth and quickly.

 

Also, you'll never see me commenting on women's appearances on forums or what have you, so forgiveness, but you look badass now.

[Argobot]

anyways, all of that rambling just to say that I understand what you're going through at least in a little way. (Also I was super punk as a teen and shaved off all my hair regularly - it's fairly liberating! But now I have grown my hair out very long because as a fat woman, I feel like I would look "bad" if it was short, so in that way, some of that stuff still kicks around in here.)

 

Yeah, hair is a fascinating issue. I had pretty short hair for awhile and was misidentified as a man on a few occasions, which always amused me more than anything. I'm curious to see what the reaction is now.

[Apple Cider]

Tip from me to you that they don't tell you - put sunscreen particularly in your part-line. It's the first place you will get a bad sunburn.

[Gormongous]

Thanks for sharing that with us here, Argobot. I'm glad you felt you could. My grandmother had early-stage breast cancer late in her life, and even though she didn't lose a breast in the course of treatment, it was a major factor in her redefining her identity in a way that wasn't centered on her femininity. Maybe that's somewhat easier to do when you're in your early seventies, but reading your comments still made me think of it.

 

Anyway, I certainly won't treat you any differently, which unfortunately seems to involve disagreeing with you regularly even though I value your opinions a lot, and I'm sure that cancer will just be A Thing that Happened soon enough, until which point we're all here to support you.

[Argobot]

Tip from me to you that they don't tell you - put sunscreen particularly in your part-line. It's the first place you will get a bad sunburn.

I don't have a part, but I do have a widow's peak that I wasn't aware of

 

https://twitter.com/sarahargodale/status/567775629199843330

[Bjorn]

You do in fact look quite badass!

[Apple Cider]

I think something that doesn't help is often how breast cancer awareness campaigns have gone into the "save the boobies" realm - as if the breasts are an essential part of a body, particularly a woman's body, that needs to be preserved over health and well-being. That sort of stuff bothers me a ton, especially seeing what kind of positive outlook my mom had, even in spite of losing a whole breast. It's crass and it essentializes a part of a woman's body to breasts, and casts a sexual value to it over women being well. 

[Argobot]

Yeah, that is something that has always bothered me. I find that there is something unsettling about the attention we pay to this disease. It's true that breast cancer is the most common cancer for women, but it still feels like it receives undue attention relative to others kinds of cancer because it has to do with such a sexualized part of the female body. Compare that the cervical cancer, which is much worse than breast cancer, but gets far less media attention because you can't as overtly sexualize it (or infantilize it by slapping a pink ribbon on a yogurt lid and call it a day).

 

(The irony is that I am now benefiting from all that lopsided attention)

[Apple Cider]

Yeah, I absolutely agree. For one thing, generally anything urological or gynecological is really underreported, -represented and -researched. It's great breast cancer has gotten a ton of money (truly, I am grateful) but honestly if we wanted to revolutionize cancer, focusing heavily on prevention/early detection vs. treatment, particularly for low income citizens would be great. Same with socialized medicine but yeah. I've been sort of watching Twitter convos unfold over the past 2 years too about these giant medical gulfs that their bodies or ailments fall into whether it is a lack of care for trans and non-binary individuals or things like lack of access to reproductive care. Or even things like PCOS, endometriosis being relatively overlooked, anemia or internal bleeding being missed because doctors still do not do comprehensive work regarding menstruation. This goes for cervical cancer as well - while there are easy ways to detect it, with PAP smears and stuff, it's hard to get routine check-ups for low income people when we regularly shut down clinics because they also do abortions, or generally just require such a high cost of care for them. 

 

It frustrates me a lot because cervical and uterine cancers are really scary and go unnoticed very easily. Same goes for uterine cysts as well. I wasn't diagnosed with PCOS despite exhibiting numerous signs for most of my teen years until I started menstruating for several months at a clip straight. 

[Argobot]

For as opinionated as some people in this country are on women's reproductive organs, we certainly have failed to do enough to medically support them, especially if they belong to low income women. Like I mentioned, I had to go through a round of IVF treatment before starting my chemo, as way to help protect my fertility. I have health insurance, but the fertility procedure was not covered. Most insurance companies see IVF as elective, even in the case of cancer patients, and will not pay for it. My medication was free because there are a bunch of nonprofits that will donate the drugs to cancer patients, but my surgery was a $5000 out-of-pocket expense. More than that, actually, because we paid extra to have the embryos grow out for a few days prior to freezing, which increases the chances of freezing an embryo that will later become a viable pregnancy. My fertility doctor told me that a lot of patients never call her back once they here the expense of saving fertility. I'm lucky that I have access to the resources to afford this procedures and have options, but I know that there are plenty of women who do not. It's unfathomable that we live in a country that idolizes mothers and motherhood, while at the same time doing as little as possible to actually aid or protect future or current mothers.

[Apple Cider]

Because the useful bit, as cynical as this sounds, is fulfilling that role, versus actually caring about mothers as people? If that makes sense. I wouldn't even say babies are valuable, unless they are white, basically. A lot of it is ideological props. Motherhood as an idea is important, but being a mother with all of that material reality is not. Hence why they want to shut down abortion clinics but then get mad when more babies are born and require things like medicare and welfare! Whoa!

 

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, the lack of support financially for anything regarding this stuff is haunting. Is Viagra covered by insurance?