Deus Ex 3

[Brannigan]

Well, thanks to whoever recommended mines. I had six of seven of them by the time I got to the first boss, and after I'd hit him with all the explosive barrels in the room, I managed to take him down with two or three frag mines. It was pretty satisfying, but it's annoying to know that I'll be facing two more frustrating encounters like these.

Sorry for repeating stuff that's probably been discussed earlier, but I try to avoid whatever spoilers I can. Will the next two bosses be equally frustrating, or worse? Is there something I should keep in mind, like a certain weapon or type of mine to ensure victory? Are there any exploits I will be able to use? I seriously will not think twice about cheating my way through these super-lame encounters.

First is easiest. However, keep a revolver around and mod it with explosive rounds for easy wins. Keep mines around too.

[a purple future]

no way, i thought first was the hardest. later on you have more augs/better weapons. 2nd is a pushover, 3rd is easy if you're smart, and 4th is more of a puzzle than a fight.

[elmuerte]

4th!? I thought there were only 3?

[Sno]

4th!? I thought there were only 3?

There basically is only 3, the 4th one hardly counts.

[Brannigan]

no way, i thought first was the hardest. later on you have more augs/better weapons. 2nd is a pushover, 3rd is easy if you're smart, and 4th is more of a puzzle than a fight.

2nd is super shitty if you don't get dermal armor for the electricity immunity.

[Sno]

2nd is super shitty if you don't get dermal armor for the electricity immunity.

That only kicks in if you're recklessly destroying the area you're fighting in.

Smart vision really helps though, being able to see robot legs lady through the active camo.

[Brannigan]

That only kicks in if you're recklessly destroying the area you're fighting in.

Smart vision really helps though, being able to see robot legs lady through the active camo.

I kept accidentally blowing up the generators or whatever

[Gwardinen]

I've heard that the Typhoon aug takes most of the health of even bosses if used at close range (particularly as I think you can upgrade its damage), so that may be a way to make fights easier too. I'm considering trying to push my way to getting it and the anti-electricity aug before the second boss. Hopefully I'm not about to run into the second boss already.

[a purple future]

yeah you can take out pretty much any boss on the hardest difficulty with 2-3 typhoons, provided you have the ammo. for best results, use an EMP first

[miffy495]

I never got the typhoon and managed to get through all three of them after some swearing and a bunch of reloads. I actually beat the second one on the first try though, as the anti-electricity skin thing means that you can stun her repeatedly simply by shooting generators which no longer effects you. I blew up a generator as she walked by, she got fried, and I unloaded a bunch of heavy rifle fire into her face. Repeat two more times and she was dead without even hitting me. The third guy on the other hand, I wish I'd had typhoon for.

TLDR; maybe don't worry about getting typhoon before the second boss, as the anti-electricity skin makes it easy enough to handle the her without too much sweat.

[Murdoc]

Well finally beat it... probably should have just stopped at that third boss. Not to say the end was bad, just...

From the moment I started that big mission Hengsha, it was just action, action, action. I was running out of ammo, getting a ton of credits I really couldn't use, etc... It was just tiring to get to the end.

I liked the beginning, loved each hub the first time around, it just felt like a well paced game with a story of unlocking a mystery while a huge world changing social debate was going on that was slowly escalating. It was about the characters and was really neat.

Then, like a lot of games, I'm now a test tube evolution of mankind fighting the illuminati and saving the world. Again, all fine, but it seems like the character part of it just takes a back seat, it's all action, and about the fate of the world.

Granted I may have missed some stuff or glazed over bits but it felt like the pace of everything just went from 0-100 and they ignored everything leading up to finding what's-her-face.

Just kind of disappointing and kept getting cheesier as it went along; even though I liked the game a lot, just that last 1/8th of it was typical none-sense and didn't give me much of a satisfying closure on what was going on(any of the endings either).

Also, is it just me or in a world of robots and cyborgs the most amazing thing was a pretty competent AI presenting the news? They kind of glossed over that part of it, because compared to anything else in the world, that's pretty god damn amazing, especially when we compare it to the other similar tech in the game(the security robots, the computers, I think someone mentioned the use of SCSI drives still being used, etc...)

Just seemed weird to me that was the more/incredible bit about the universe and it wasn't really recognized outside a couple lines of dialogue.

I really liked Jensen too, if anything when they make more of these, get the same voice actor back, shame he didn't really have any sort of arc and just became the guy that saves the day by the end.

[Sno]

Well finally beat it... probably should have just stopped at that third boss. Not to say the end was bad, just...

From the moment I started that big mission Hengsha, it was just action, action, action. I was running out of ammo, getting a ton of credits I really couldn't use, etc... It was just tiring to get to the end.

I don't know what you mean action, action, action. You can still stealth through all those late-game parts. I mean, sure... It builds a lot of momentum and pressure to just finish the game, i guess.

I liked the beginning, loved each hub the first time around, it just felt like a well paced game with a story of unlocking a mystery while a huge world changing social debate was going on that was slowly escalating. It was about the characters and was really neat.

Then, like a lot of games, I'm now a test tube evolution of mankind fighting the illuminati and saving the world. Again, all fine, but it seems like the character part of it just takes a back seat, it's all action, and about the fate of the world.

Granted I may have missed some stuff or glazed over bits but it felt like the pace of everything just went from 0-100 and they ignored everything leading up to finding what's-her-face.

The end of the game goes to some pretty ridiculous places, but it definitely ties into the rest of the story thematically. There was a very spoilery RPS piece that i think does a good job of making an argument for that.

Also, is it just me or in a world of robots and cyborgs the most amazing thing was a pretty competent AI presenting the news? They kind of glossed over that part of it, because compared to anything else in the world, that's pretty god damn amazing, especially when we compare it to the other similar tech in the game(the security robots, the computers, I think someone mentioned the use of SCSI drives still being used, etc...)

Just seemed weird to me that was the more/incredible bit about the universe and it wasn't really recognized outside a couple lines of dialogue.

Not the fact that they built an impossibly immense mega structure over part of Shanghai in just over a decade? What about the the giant hole in the ocean? In general, i think the world they've presented is too close to the present to be especially believable. They try really hard to suggest that augmented people have created an explosion of creativity and engineering, the whole neo-renaissance theme of the game. By that token, augmentation hasn't just made people stronger, it's made them smarter. So maybe the existence of advanced AI, in and of itself, isn't meant to be that shocking in 2027.

Data mining AI's are also more or less in line with things the Illuminati do in the original game, but that is a game set in a much more believable 2052. (The 2052 presented in the original Deus Ex also comes across as being actually significantly less advanced than the 2027 of Human Revolution.)

I really liked Jensen too, if anything when they make more of these, get the same voice actor back, shame he didn't really have any sort of arc and just became the guy that saves the day by the end.

I think the way the story develops, he's kind of on the way towards something of an arc, but the big climax prevents him from having any closure on his shit. So yeah, Jensen kind of gets screwed by the narrative. He's intentionally a bit of a cypher though. Monotone voice so the player can project their own emotions on him and all. It's something Ion Storm did with JC in the first game too. (I think JC actually ends up feeling like he has an arc, though.)

There's definitely at least room for another game, if they want to lead into the original Deus Ex more concretely, and it's fairly obvious what it would involve.

[a purple future]

There's definitely at least room for another game, if they want to lead into the original Deus Ex more concretely, and it's fairly obvious what it would involve.

that part's not really a spoiler unless you've never played the first game, and statute of limitations is up on that one. so yeah, obviously it would be the move from cyborg-people to nanotechnology and i think they could do a legitimately interesting thing with it. although it's probably better they didn't, and avoid a potential Invisible War 2

[Sno]

that part's not really a spoiler unless you've never played the first game, and statute of limitations is up on that one. so yeah, obviously it would be the move from cyborg-people to nanotechnology and i think they could do a legitimately interesting thing with it. although it's probably better they didn't, and avoid a potential Invisible War 2

I was thinking more along the lines of it being about Bob Page turning against the Illuminati and founding MJ12, while setting into motion the things that define the plot of the original Deus Ex. (The Gray Death and the Dentons.)

The post-credits stinger in Human Revolution definitely supports this.

[Murdoc]

I don't know what you mean action, action, action. You can still stealth through all those late-game parts. I mean, sure... It builds a lot of momentum and pressure to just finish the game, i guess.

I mean its all combat zones with little to no break starting from that one mission until the end

So maybe the existence of advanced AI, in and of itself, isn't meant to be that shocking in 2027.

)

I'm not saying that I couldn't believe in the tech by 2027, but by the standards of the universe they created. It seemed out of place when compared to similar technologies presented in their fiction.

I think the way the story develops, he's kind of on the way towards something of an arc, but the big climax prevents him from having any closure on his shit. So yeah, Jensen kind of gets screwed by the narrative.

Yeah totally agree, it felt like he was going somewhere, but it seemed t be stopped short.

There will be other games, the market spoke on that already, whether its a follow up within the same timeframe as this, something more of a middle ground between the two games, or a sequel/prequel... they have solid mechanics and engine to work with now so all they have to do is come up with a decent narrative. Id like to see a more robust and polished Human Revolution, in any of the fictions time lines.

edit: there was stuff in the post credits? going to have to go back and watch.

[Brannigan]

wow, after today's patch I can run the game with everything to max buttery smooth.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'm guessing (hoping) that toblix is playing this on PC.

Even on a PC they tie save-games to your Windows Live account... at least they do on some games (e.g. Fallout 3).

As for bosses, isn't there some YouTube guides just get past them? At this point they don't even sound like part of the "proper" game, just something you have to tolerate in order to progress.

[Sno]

Human Revolution isn't a GFW game, but it does have Steam achievements, which is probably what he was talking about.

And i really, really believe the bosses as an issue has been overblown. Just keep a few grenades/mines on you and you're fine. You shouldn't be ignoring the grenades/mines anyways, certain types are even valuable in stealthy and/or non-lethal playthroughs.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Human Revolution isn't a GFW game, but it does have Steam achievements, which is probably what he was talking about.

Oh. That's a shame. I was planning to play on the Steam version and I don't particularly care about Steam Achievements.

[Brannigan]

It surprises me that anyone cares about achievements

[Lu]

I never asked for any of this.

[Brannigan]

I never asked for any of this.

and I thought I was being funny when I punched him after talking to him.

[miffy495]

And i really, really believe the bosses as an issue has been overblown. Just keep a few grenades/mines on you and you're fine. You shouldn't be ignoring the grenades/mines anyways, certain types are even valuable in stealthy and/or non-lethal playthroughs.

If people are playing the game the way the game tells them they can (choose to go through however you want!) and are giving up on it altogether as a result of these boss fights, they are not being overblown. Whether you personally had problems with them or not is irrelevant. The fact is, this is a thing that has tainted otherwise glowing impressions of the game (mine, most reviewers) and caused a very large group of people to rage-quit the game outright. Your response is "these people have been playing it wrong. Just use grenades and mines" when the whole point of the game is "THERE IS NO WAY TO PLAY IT WRONG!"

I very rarely use grenades in any game ever (thanks in large part to never having figured out the curve in the original Half Life games and giving up on trying to find a use for them), and DX3 is the first time I've ever used a mine in a game. That's just not how I play things, even things that have a huge emphasis on combat. If I can play through the Modern Warfare games on normal difficulty without throwing a grenade, and never feel like rage-quitting, I should be able to do so in Deus fucking Ex. That this game, of all games, is punishing me for this is definitely an issue, and a very big one considering the promise of it and that the rest of the game allows you to play the way you wish. So yeah, it is a huge issue. No matter what your opinion of the game is and no matter if you've personally had difficulty, these fights are ruining the game for a lot of players who otherwise would have absolutely and unreservedly loved it.

[juv3nal]

If people are playing the game the way the game tells them they can (choose to go through however you want!) and are giving up on it altogether as a result of these boss fights, they are not being overblown.

But folks are always going on and on about how they want their choices in games to have consequences. If you spec all-stealth/hacking/nonlethal then the consequence of that is the possibility that there will be combat that is unavoidable and that you will be ill equipped for it. Which is not to say the boss encounters are well designed or that their difficulty is properly tuned, but just the fact that the game occasionally forces you to play in a way contrary to what you would have chosen does not strike me as inherently a bad design decision.

[JonCole]

But folks are always going on and on about how they want their choices in games to have consequences. If you spec all-stealth/hacking/nonlethal then the consequence of that is the possibility that there will be combat that is unavoidable and that you will be ill equipped for it. Which is not to say the boss encounters are well designed or that their difficulty is properly tuned, but just the fact that the game occasionally forces you to play in a way contrary to what you would have chosen does not strike me as inherently a bad design decision.

Yeah, this is where I fall on this issue. There wasn't a single point in this game where I felt it was signaling "I promise you that you'll never get into a fight ever". If I was trying to bring down "the powers that be", I kind of expect that they'd try to hunt me down every now and then with something more substantial than some guards.

Maybe bosses aren't the most mechanically sound element in Deus Ex, but you can't possibly convince me that there shouldn't be encounters where you have to fight.