Twin Peaks Rewatch 51: The Return, Part 16

[utilityfrog]

Loved this episode. Scattered thoughts:

• I'm not sure if I buy the "Diane is Naido" theory yet, though I do agree the idea is pretty tempting. But remember in part 3 Cooper met Naido in the mauve zone and didn't seem to recognise her at all. And the other tulpas and doppelgangers we know of look identical to their progenitors (baring differences in hair colour and body weight as with Dougie). So I think the real Diane looks like Laura Dern as well.
• Interesting that Mr C seems to have been using certain code words not only to compel TulpaDiane to take certain actions but also to cause her to remember events that she had previously forgotten. After she receives Mr C's text in this episode she remembers something that disturbs her greatly. This may be the events of the night when Mr C visited her or maybe her true nature as a Tulpa.
• I think it's up in the air at this point if Diane and Janey-E are actually sisters. That may have just been a ruse to get Cole and co. to go to Vegas. Although I also suppose it's possible that they are sisters and Mr C used that existing relationship as a means to find an appropriate location to plant Dougie.
• Mr C seems to really not give a shit about the fate of Richard LOL.
• Given Jerry's location, Mr C is now within several days walking distance from Twin Peaks.
• RealCoop seems to know all sorts of lodge lore, including the function of The Ring and the use of seeds to create Tulpas. So he doesn't seem to have been staring vacantly into space for 25 years.
• On Audrey's situation, I don't think we can say definitively what's going on at this point. I don't think she's in a mental asylum; the brief glimpse we get of her looking at the mirror doesn't at all look like a naturalistic depiction of a normal place, it's completely white-ed out. More importantly, we hear electrical crackling on the soundtrack, which strongly suggests lodgey stuff.

[Captain Fram]

I can't deal with how good this show is. I just got done with this episode and am pacing around the house all giddy-like. Twin Peaks is a goddamned miracle. 

[JPL]

"Two birds one stone" - is Linda going to climb up onto that same rock and be electro-disintegrated?

[axis1500]

So, can we surmise that Charlie was a hallucination and doesn't actually exist? The way it cuts from him to Audrey staring at her reflection....

 

 

Also, it sounds like at the very end of the episode, after the credits roll and reverse Audrey's Theme plays, there's backwards speech?

[unimural]

6 hours ago, Winnipeg Fats said:

Part of me can't help but fear that Twin Peaks the Return is going to end St. Elsewhere style with Audrey being "The Dreamer" from that ancient phrase from Cole's dream.

 

When Audrey and Charlie appeared at the Roadhouse I thought that this means that either none of The Return is literally a dream, or that all of it is. I too am somewhat fearful that the ending might go in that direction.

 

At the very least I share @Argobot's question about the nature of all the Roadhouse scenes. Previously I've kind of considered them as a window to the world outside the main storyline.

 

A wonderful episode, even if the break-neck pace was almost too much.

 

Wasn't the sound Bushnell heard the same Ben and Bev heard at the Great Northern?

[JPL]

The entire roadhouse being a construct in Audrey's mind seems too far-fetched, but I did wonder the same thing. Maybe only the music numbers that are introduced by the MC are in her mind? I forget exactly which ones are and aren't. It would explain some of the unconnected dialog of some incidental characters.

Amusing but probably not actually relevant: "The" NIN and Eddie Vedder are both acts that Audrey could theoretically have known about if she had entered a coma in 1989.

[Gamebeast23456]

Can someone capture a "I AM the FBI" gif pretty please? 

 

This episode, besides a few minor quibbles, was excellent and really nice payoff for the fans. I hesitate to label it fan-service-y, because I've always thought that term implied a level of unearned payoff, whereas we absolutely earned this one. 

 

Let's jot out some negatives before I barrel into breathless praise: 

 

- I thought the Diane revelation was pretty bad. The leadup to the actual Blue Rose confession was very disorienting and intense (it felt super Lost Highway with it's use of blaring non-diagetic music) but the actual content of it was just flat and not good. I think it was only more undercut by Diane being a Tulpa orb woman doppelganger thing. 

 

- I have an ongoing background process in my head where I cross-check what I've seen with any ideas at deeper meaning, or comment on "the human condition". I think a lot of Lynch's work does this. It's often about fairly simple conflicts being projected onto dream worlds full of deeper meaning. I haven't felt a deeper meaning in this season. I am impressed with the poignancy of some scenes, and the overall thrust of the season is fascinating and entertaining, but I hope I walk away with some feeling of learning something about Lynch's view of life or my own, because I think that is what he has usually given me. 

 

Of course, I like much more than I dislike. 

 

- Everything with Hutch and Chantell was weirdly poignant. There's a version of these characters that are just weird, silent hitmen (kind of like Ike The Spike) but instead we got these weirdly charming characters who just escape sociopathy by their own relationship. I love their undoing being a classic Lynch theme - the darker heart and twisted pathologies of suburbia. 

 

-The return of Cooper is just beautiful. The melding of the original wide-eyed, empathetic Cooper from the original run with this soul who has endured so much, but still seems fundementally good in his ultimate orientation and care for other humans, is truly that shit I show up for. 

 

-Mr. C's setup of Richard Horne is really crushing. Richard certainly is a fuckup, and his victims deserve far more sympathy than him, but the rippling effects of abuse and neglect (themes I have enjoyed and mulled over this season) really set him up for a tragic, outrageous fall. The utter deadness of Mr. C's "Goodbye my son" was terrifyingly. 

 

- I really enjoy the fact that Lynch seems to recognize the dulling effect the Roadhouse concerts have had on viewers. I was totally hoisted once everything went all topsy turvey on us. Poor, poor Audrey. 

 

I'm on the verge of true rambling, but I just have to concur with everyone who loved this episode. God it's good we have two episodes with Cooper left. 

 

 

[utilityfrog]

Something I just realised: the Rancho Rosa logo at the beginning had a blue background. Blue -> blue rose -> Tulpa -> Diane.

[mostlystring]

25 minutes ago, JPL said:

Amusing but probably not actually relevant: "The" NIN and Eddie Vedder are both acts that Audrey could theoretically have known about if she had entered a coma in 1989.

Not really. Head Like A Hole came out in 1990, and Ten wasn't released until late '91. 

[Tjoffsan]

51 minutes ago, Gamebeast23456 said:

Can someone capture a "I AM the FBI" gif pretty please? 

 

[Ash_NR]

Listening to the Rewatch Podcast along with my very watch of Twin Peaks has given me a greater appreciation of music and sound design in film & tv ( and games too). I remember Jake and Chris remarking on the blurring of diegetic and non-diegetic music (just a linky of a definition for people that might not of heard of the term) in the original run of Twin Peaks. Specifically they talked incredulously about the jukebox having Audrey's Dance on it. I thought it was super interesting at the time, I just considered the weirdness to be one of Lynch's "things".

 

So what is Audrey's Dance? What does being "the dreamer" mean? I loved Audrey in the original seasons, but I found her being drawn into the main plot by Windom Earle to be a ridiculous conceit. Why is she a player in the weirdness of The Return?

 

Someone give me these answers, please!

[Jake]

1 hour ago, JPL said:

The entire roadhouse being a construct in Audrey's mind seems too far-fetched, but I did wonder the same thing. Maybe only the music numbers that are introduced by the MC are in her mind? I forget exactly which ones are and aren't. It would explain some of the unconnected dialog of some incidental characters.

Amusing but probably not actually relevant: "The" NIN and Eddie Vedder are both acts that Audrey could theoretically have known about if she had entered a coma in 1989.

Those wrong band names could be a legit indicator actually?

 

Also maybe: Roadhouse scenes when the sign was shown directly, versus scenes when the sign is upside down reflected in a puddle?

[forstm]

7 hours ago, ihavefivehat said:

Oh and my first reaction to the Diane thing was to assume that Cooper killed her and replaced her with a tulpa to do his bidding, body snatchers style. I'm not sure I believe that Diane is Naido since the other tulpa, Dougie, looked exactly like his original. But who knows. It was pretty horrible to watch someone remember that they've been raped and killed and then realize they're not a real person.

There is no way Naido is Diane. Gordon and Albert obviously have known Diane before since she worked for the FBI the whole time. She would have personel records and background checks. It is just way too far fetched.

 

If nothing else it will be interesting to find out if we ever get to know what happened to the real Diane. I'm guessing they don't explain if Coop killed her before making a tulpa of her. Or if she is trapped in a lodge and we get to see her again.

 

 

[helplesswhite]

https://clyp.it/lacvyex1 i reversed the voice at the end of the credits, and i tried to make it as legible as i could but couldn't make much out.
 

10 minutes ago, Jake said:

Those wrong band names could be a legit indicator actually?

 

Also maybe: Roadhouse scenes when the sign was shown directly, versus scenes when the sign is upside down reflected in a puddle?

Holy piss

[alexfpiercey]

 

In case people hadn't seen this. Apparently it's credited as the same actress?

[Argobot]

19 minutes ago, Jake said:

Those wrong band names could be a legit indicator actually?

 

Also maybe: Roadhouse scenes when the sign was shown directly, versus scenes when the sign is upside down reflected in a puddle?

Yeah, I don't think all Roadhouse scene were "fake" but now I suspect more than zero of them have been in Audrey's brain.

[mikemariano]

9 hours ago, Argobot said:

The reveal that Audrey was in a fake Roadhouse means that we know have to question the reality of every Roadhouse scene, right?

 

I don't want to live in a reality where James isn't cool.

[tabacco]

9 hours ago, Lynch is a Misogynist said:

 

Brilliant deduction, what gave it away? Cooper handing Mike his hair after asking him if he still had the seed and expressly asking him to "make another"?

 

If you can't contribute constructively to the discussion, please find yourself another forum. You won't be warned again.

 

Edit: oh nevermind it was that feelintoblivion guy again. Banned again.

[Crunchnoisy]

1 hour ago, helplesswhite said:

https://clyp.it/lacvyex1 i reversed the voice at the end of the credits, and i tried to make it as legible as i could but couldn't make much out.
 

Holy piss

 

Holy Crappers.   (and I think Jake has hit something.  If that's not the case, it darn well should be! re: the Roadhouse reflection)

 

edit: I quoted the wrong post!  Um. Duh.

[Schnapple]

10 hours ago, AynBland said:

Oh and the part where Janey-E asks, "Dougie, are you sure this is a good idea?"

and Coop answers, "It's a good idea,"

 

Plus it works as a throwback to S2E1 where Cooper removes himself from the hospital after being shot. 

 

Back when S2E1 went down, and in subsequent rewatchings, I would think "No! You fool! You've been shot! Let the doctors do their job!"

 

This episode I was like "Yes! You're fine! Get the fuck out of there and get back to Twin Peaks!"

[gabe2017]

3 hours ago, JPL said:

The entire roadhouse being a construct in Audrey's mind seems too far-fetched, but I did wonder the same thing. Maybe only the music numbers that are introduced by the MC are in her mind? I forget exactly which ones are and aren't.

I was thinking this same thing. But the MC introduces the ZZ Top music (with the gauge thingy), the same scene where James and Green Glove One Punch get in a fight and end up in jail...Maybe the lighting is a clue, seemed to be more natural lighting at times and then other times a more purple hue?

[JPL]

3 hours ago, mostlystring said:

Not really. Head Like A Hole came out in 1990, and Ten wasn't released until late '91. 

Pretty Hate Machine was 89, but fall 89 and I think S2 has been proven to take place in early 89, and I forgot that Temple of the Dog / Pearl Jam formed in 90, so yeah it's just a smidge too early for her to have been aware of those acts. (Also young Audrey didn't really seem like an industrial or early grunge fan?)

[Arianna]

20 minutes ago, JPL said:

Pretty Hate Machine was 89, but fall 89 and I think S2 has been proven to take place in early 89, and I forgot that Temple of the Dog / Pearl Jam formed in 90, so yeah it's just a smidge too early for her to have been aware of those acts. (Also young Audrey didn't really seem like an industrial or early grunge fan?)

Young Audrey only liked soundtrack jazz. She even got it placed in all the jukeboxes around town.

[pokysharpy]

10 hours ago, Kolzig said:

I thought it was cool that Eddie Vedder was introduced in the show as Edward Louis Severson III and then credited in credits as Eddie Vedder.

 

Does anyone know, does he use his real name ever normally or is he just known as Eddie Vedder?

 

Edward Louis Severson III is his birth name. His parents divorced when he was a small child, but his mom remarried and he was raised believing his step dad was his actual biological father.  He went by "Edward Mueller" (step dad's last name) until his late teens and when his mom and step dad divorced and he learned the truth - that his "dad" wasn't his biological father.

So from there he took his mom's maiden name and has been Eddie Vedder ever since!

[One Thing]

In case anyone else wishes Lynch pinned down the idea of the tulpa more precisely before making it central to the show's mythos, there's an excellent Podcast on the topic here:

http://monstertalk.skeptic.com/slenderman-and-tulpas

It seems as though he's working with a bastardised version of an already Westernised rendition of a Tibetan Buddhist concept. So this is perhaps of limited help when it comes to understanding the logic of tulpas on the show. But it's nonetheless interesting and sets the Monica Bellucci dream in a new light.

And don't worry, the Slenderman thing is just a point of entry to the dicussion of tulpas as a cultural text.