The Great Went Posted August 28, 2017 (D) I half expected Diane to "die" in front of the Blue Rose Gang the way Josie did at the Great Northern before she ended up in a wooden drawer pull. Diane looked really thin and was acting kind of similar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marblize Posted August 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Great Went said: that makes Diane's whole orientalist costuming thing waaaaay more problematic. ' Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AynBland Posted August 28, 2017 Oh and the part where Janey-E asks, "Dougie, are you sure this is a good idea?" and Coop answers, "It's a good idea," it sounds just like an old DougieCoop response where he repeats the last few words somebody said. So good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Went Posted August 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, marblize said: Why? I guess because we would have a white actor playing a character "derived" from a character played by an asian actor, and the highly stylized exoticizing treatment of traditional Eastern style/decor/fashion with regard to the white character is not just meant to indicate a personal interest in arcana of Asian culture, but meant to signify an underlying authentic Eastern identity. I say problematic in the sense that it generates a lot of problems and red flags in the politics of representation, not necessarily in the sense that it is "wrong" or "bad." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mentalgongfu Posted August 28, 2017 53 minutes ago, The Great Went said: This episode was wonderful. Diane acting like a sassy .gif in the red room was really something else. Also -- Wait just a goddamn minute -- If Naido is the real Diane... (A) Why don't the guys from the FBI recognize she's not really Diane or did they never see her before? (B) that makes Diane's whole orientalist costuming thing waaaaay more problematic. ' Edit: (C) It also makes it seem legit that Naido is also Judy, and even that the character could still be the sister to Josie, problematic racial depiction and all. Yes, great episode. I appreciated Dale's return all the more for the long wait. And we wouldn't have had all this wonderful adventure if he had come back in the beginning. I like the idea of Naido being the real Diane, but I'm not sure how the mechanics would work. Maybe her time in the Other Place has changed her appearance? "Naido" backwards is O dian. May mean nothing. I don't know about her being Judy too, however. 3 names seems a little much. More random first thoughts: Still wondering what to make of the 1 remaining set of coordinates DoppleCoop had, plus the one not-Diane sent right before she tried to shoot the Blue Rose team. The Mitchums ARE gangsters with hearts of gold. Dale was drinking coffee in the limo, without much ceremony. Didn't even say "damn fine." Maybe it just wasn't that good. I predict before the finale ends he will devour some of Norma's cherry pie with much fanfare. We didn't get to see the message Dale left for Gordon Cole... presumably sending him to Twin Peaks? Richard's death was unsurprising after DoppleCoop called him "bright," but I kind of feel he deserved even worse. Maybe not... He belongs on the group W bench down in Whitehall Street at least with Arlo and all the other mean, nasty, ugly-looking mother-rapers and father-stabbers. What about Becky, after Steven's rant last week? How's Becky? How's Becky? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argobot Posted August 28, 2017 What an episode!! I cheered when Cooper came back and then teared up at Audrey's Dance. Well worth the wait. A few quick thoughts: - The reveal that Audrey was in a fake Roadhouse means that we know have to question the reality of every Roadhouse scene, right? That would explain why the website run by Matthew Lillard's character had an audio track of all the Roadhouse bands up to that point. It's all been in the Black Lodge (?) or some other place. - All the extras swaying to Audrey's Dance was great. - Will Richard Horne reappear?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winnipeg Fats Posted August 28, 2017 Part of me can't help but fear that Twin Peaks the Return is going to end St. Elsewhere style with Audrey being "The Dreamer" from that ancient phrase from Cole's dream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mentalgongfu Posted August 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, Argobot said: What an episode!! I cheered when Cooper came back and then teared up at Audrey's Dance. Well worth the wait. A few quick thoughts: - The reveal that Audrey was in a fake Roadhouse means that we know have to question the reality of every Roadhouse scene, right? That would explain why the website run by Matthew Lillard's character had an audio track of all the Roadhouse bands up to that point. It's all been in the Black Lodge (?) or some other place. - All the extras swaying to Audrey's Dance was great. - Will Richard Horne reappear?? Maybe some of them? But a lot of the Roadhouse scenes tie into what we take in the show to be reality, like our green-gloved friend winding up in jail. And Billy's existence. Not to mention James' perpetual coolness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marblize Posted August 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, The Great Went said: I guess because we would have a white actor playing a character "derived" from a character played by an asian actor, and the highly stylized exoticizing treatment of traditional Eastern style/decor/fashion with regard to the white character is not just meant to indicate a personal interest in arcana of Asian culture, but meant to signify an underlying authentic Eastern identity. I say problematic in the sense that it generates a lot of problems and red flags in the politics of representation, not necessarily in the sense that it is "wrong" or "bad." Right, I just am not sure if having a character simply fetishize that stuff without it being commented on is necessarily less problematic, especially since we don't have the details yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Went Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, marblize said: Right, I just am not sure if having a character simply fetishize that stuff without it being commented on is necessarily less problematic, especially since we don't have the details yet. Fair enough, I'm not really in a position to quantify degrees of problematicness. It's also not like the original run didn't already have a white lady dressed up as a fat asian guy with an outsized cartoon accent for like 7 episodes. And anyway, Fake Diane is probably just based on an Original Diane who is also Laura Dern but wearing a different wig. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolzig Posted August 28, 2017 I have had a lot of issues with Twin Peaks, especially in the S3 first episodes, but it's all coming together so nicely. This was an extremely damn good episode. I was so close to shouting YES YES YES in that wrestling meme style when Dale Cooper said to Bushnell " I am the FBI". My dog thought I was nuts, and I almost woke up my wife and daughter when the clock was 5AM at that point. Also Jim Belushi's face when he was drinking that Bloody Mary, so awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marblize Posted August 28, 2017 30 minutes ago, Argobot said: - The reveal that Audrey was in a fake Roadhouse means that we know have to question the reality of every Roadhouse scene, right? That would explain why the website run by Matthew Lillard's character had an audio track of all the Roadhouse bands up to that point. It's all been in the Black Lodge (?) or some other place. This is fucking awesome. It's wild to me that a track title from the original run's official sountrack was verbalized, lol. Kind of means we have to question the reality of the whole s3 show-world, even if maybe not quite literally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregalor Posted August 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, Winnipeg Fats said: Part of me can't help but fear that Twin Peaks the Return is going to end St. Elsewhere style with Audrey being "The Dreamer" from that ancient phrase from Cole's dream. I can't envision a series so dead-set on subverting television ending on something so cliche, a universally reviled trope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marblize Posted August 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Great Went said: Fair enough, I'm not really in a position to quantify degrees of problematicness. It's also not like the original run didn't already have a white lady dressed up as a fat asian guy with an outsized cartoon accent for like 7 episodes. And anyway, Fake Diane is probably just based on an Original Diane who is also Laura Dern but wearing a different wig. I mean the Sheriff's Station line lends the theory a lot of credence. I just wonder, if she was a psychic projection given form, whether some incredibly crude signifiers of her actual identity might logically work their way in depending on who projected her, (though her actual form's whiteness would certainly take some 'splainin [essence of the David Lynch Blonde??]) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ihavefivehat Posted August 28, 2017 I feel like the roadhouse is a place where the lodge bleeds into reality. I don't know why Audrey woke up screaming in a white room but it doesn't seem exactly like a coma, because she 'woke up' staring directly into a mirror. It feels more like a hallucination, but I don't know what that means. Maybe she's gone insane? But I have a feeling it's something less easy to pin down. I'm so happy that the roadhouse scenes got weird and conspicuously artificial and then imploded because they bothered me when I thought it was just David Lynch showing us some bands he liked. (Although it still is partially that.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolzig Posted August 28, 2017 I thought it was cool that Eddie Vedder was introduced in the show as Edward Louis Severson III and then credited in credits as Eddie Vedder. Does anyone know, does he use his real name ever normally or is he just known as Eddie Vedder? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ihavefivehat Posted August 28, 2017 Oh and my first reaction to the Diane thing was to assume that Cooper killed her and replaced her with a tulpa to do his bidding, body snatchers style. I'm not sure I believe that Diane is Naido since the other tulpa, Dougie, looked exactly like his original. But who knows. It was pretty horrible to watch someone remember that they've been raped and killed and then realize they're not a real person. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GregsVice Posted August 28, 2017 Oh my god, Cooper is back and is bringing the old Twin Peaks with him. -The demise of Chantal and Hutch was utterly amazing. There's just a powder keg waiting to explode around the Jones household with the Mitchum's, the FBI, and the hitmen, but then just some random dude in the area is the reason it all goes south. Amazing. -I was so shocked when Audrey appeared normally at the Roadhouse, but then... Audrey's dance. -I hope Richard Horne got to find out who Mother is (Assuming he went to the mauve zone) "Goodbye my son." lol -Many great musical cues in this episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crunchnoisy Posted August 28, 2017 Spectacular. I AM THE FBI. Even the "rape" revelation was good, because it was not quite... "He Raped Me!" I sagged in disappointment. Really, that's as layered as this is going to get? But wait! TULPA. Red Room. "Someone manufactured you!" That's the layers I was hoping for! Did Mr. C rape her, or was the Tulpa just saying that because that was the easy conclusion that both the FBI characters and the audience were expecting... enough to get our guard down so she can shoot us all. But no, she was manufactured by Mr. C, which means... we can't trust anything she ever said, including "He Raped Me." Well, well played. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mentalgongfu Posted August 28, 2017 Gee, no surprise someone with such a thoughtful and insightful moniker has contributed such constructive posts since joining the forum moments ago. Sheesh. 1) Diane revealing she was raped was NOT treated casually in that scene, whatever you think of Lynch's career. 2) You can argue against the above, and that is all well and good and fair game, even though I think it's dumb. But your second post is just called "being an asshole." Discuss, argue, whatever, but don't start the insult train moving full speed ahead because you apparently detest Lynch and anyone who enjoys or appreciates his work. Derailing with insults is not cool. It has never been cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crunchnoisy Posted August 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lynch is a Misogynist said: Good to see the Lynch apology train is moving full speed ahead. The revelation that not one but two women were raped in this episode was disgusting in how casually it was treated. Lynch has treated women incredibly poorly his entire career and to hand wave away this latest transgression by saying "Maybe she's lying, brilliant!" is pathetic. It's not pathetic. It's a difference of opinion. Twin Peaks' existence was literally born out of the abuse, rape, and murder of one woman. Lynch has always tread deep into this subject matter. That's not an apology, that's just the way it is. It's icky. There's quite a bit of Lynch that's icky, I think he is misogynistic sometimes. And yes, I mean sometimes. But there's no reason to tolerate it. You should not watch it. It is odd that people would keep watching his oeuvre expecting him to change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpectreCollie Posted August 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Argobot said: - The reveal that Audrey was in a fake Roadhouse means that we know have to question the reality of every Roadhouse scene, right? That would explain why the website run by Matthew Lillard's character had an audio track of all the Roadhouse bands up to that point. It's all been in the Black Lodge (?) or some other place. - All the extras swaying to Audrey's Dance was great. - Will Richard Horne reappear?? I suppose it's not necessarily the case, since the Roadhouse we've been seeing and the Roadhouse where Audrey's Dance happened could be two different places. If she is in a coma or something, then she could be dreaming about the Roadhouse in this episode. Especially since almost all of the characters who've appeared there and in what I assume is the "real world" have been Richard Horne, Shelly, and James, all of whom are people Audrey would know. (I'm assuming she knows Freddie as a Universal Archetype of the Cockney Iron Fist, even if she'd never met him in person). (Oh yeah, and Chad, too. Never mind). I don't believe that, since most of the scenes in the Roadhouse have seemed weird and other-worldly, while Twin Peaks "proper" has been surprisingly normal this season. Apart from the bizarre scene that Bobby saw in the stopped car with the sick girl, it's been fairly light on the weirdness and super-elevated melodrama. And Audrey's Dance just filled me with dread like nothing I've seen in a long while. Whatever is going on with her story, I can't imagine any version that isn't my worst nightmare. Even with monsters chewing faces and strange women suddenly appearing in dark motel doorways and faces getting pulled off to reveal blackness, the most horrifying thing for me has been the scenes with Audrey and the sense that something is very wrong and it's possible that she's been going through this for decades. Also: good call to Jake and Chris for pointing out Dougie's reaction to spending time with Sonny Jim. Y'all noticed that it read like he was reacting to a family life that he'd missed out, but to be honest I'd thought that was a reach. This ep all but confirms it, and it's a pretty sad story when you realize that he's lost 25 years of his life in the Black Lodge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie Posted August 28, 2017 This episode had all the INTENSE feels. Sadly I can't articulate myself very well. But, David Lynch's direction is so overpowering that I'm barely bothered by the shortcomings. It was teased for so long now that Richard is Mr. C's son that you got used to the thought. Still dislike the implication (how behavior is preordained by genetics). That Diane was raped by Mr. C...well, how Diane was portrayed in this scene made it truly heart-wrenching and didn't give off a perverse joy at the gruesomeness of this development in the slightest. So, that scene had me feel really strongly with her, especially when I thought back at how she behaved through the season. And then all the other shit that was going on with her! Crazy! A lot to chew on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chumm Posted August 28, 2017 LOVED how everyone just went right along with Coop speaking in full sentences (commenting on but not being shocked by it). The Mitchums agreeing to immediately fuel up the jet and head to Spokane was just *kisses fingers* Audrey coma is weird because she must have gotten out of her old coma, had a baby, and got back into one? Maybe being with Bad Coop did something to her in the way that him "being" with Diane did. Angry accountant was appropriately weird but having a machine pistol in the trunk, I dunno. Chantal's "What if I am?!" was so perfectly delivered, I was delighted. BAD BINOCULARS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kolzig Posted August 28, 2017 Remember Richard and Linda. Well Richard is now dead(?) and Linda is nowhere to be seen still. Also where's Becky? There are so many open questions that it's going to be a truly wild ride next week with the two hour end to this all. It's going to be a hard week to wait for those final episodes. Also Mark Frost's Final Dossier is getting closer to be released. Jerry is in good shape for an old man, he ran like 7-8 episodes ago out from the woods and he kept running like Forrest Gump until today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites