Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 51: The Return, Part 16

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I assume the electric shock zapped him out of it, similar to how the shock of passing over fried his being and put him into it. But the last shock was strong enough that it also knocked him into a short coma. I'm not creative enough, just going as simple as possible for the explanation here. I assume the whole coma thing was just another fakeout to end all fakeouts.


I'm really curious about MIKE now, more than before. Just what is he getting out of all this? He's been leading Dougie Coop around from wherever it is he exists by popping his red room waypoints into the real world. But to what end? Does he just want BOB back? Does he not know BOB was excised from Mr. C? And apparently he can also manufacture these "tulpas" with the seeds and some DNA? And can reach into reality from basically anywhere to exchange items (the owl ring and the hair). Of all the mysteries and transpirings in this series, MIKE's motivations, powers, and end goals are the most baffling for me.

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What is Mr. C doing? Did he attempt to 'return' someone with his dna to the lodge in his place?

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While I loved the scenes with Dale Cooper back, they only made me appreciate more the decision to keep him as Dougie this whole time. I was talking to my friends who don't watch the show today about Dougie before I watched the episode, and it really cemented to me how much I enjoyed his antics, and the way he gave the show an entirely different feel. I love Old Coop, and I love New Old Coop, but I don't think they could have sustained him for 18 episodes. I think Lynch and McLachlan realized that you just can't capture that performance in the same way again; it's always going to feel just a little bit off, and I think that would have become more clear and uncomfortable if this had been a show entirely about Normal Dale Cooper. Glad to still get a few hours with him though :)

 

I was disappointed that the theories about Mr. C raping Diane and likely also Audrey were confirmed. I don't know how I feel about it, necessarily. For the most part, the fact that Mr. C is evil has been expressed in this show through his mistreatment of women, from Darya to Diane. It's very uncomfortable. I mean, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. Still trying to reckon with myself how I feel about this, because generally I dislike stories that rely so heavily on themes of abuse and gratuitous violence. I will continue to read everyone's thoughts about this on our forum here, because I think there have been plenty of interesting discussions about this up until now. 

 

 I'm excited for next week, although I'll be sad, obviously, for the show to end. It's been quite a ride. And as always, I still have absolutely zero idea what is going to happen next. 

 

7 hours ago, helplesswhite said:

https://clyp.it/lacvyex1 i reversed the voice at the end of the credits, and i tried to make it as legible as i could but couldn't make much out.

 

I think it's saying "Threat Neutralized"?

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2 minutes ago, WickedCestus said:

I was disappointed that the theories about Mr. C raping Diane and likely also Audrey were confirmed. I don't know how I feel about it, necessarily. For the most part, the fact that Mr. C is evil has been expressed in this show through his mistreatment of women, from Darya to Diane. It's very uncomfortable. I mean, it's supposed to be uncomfortable. Still trying to reckon with myself how I feel about this, because generally I dislike stories that rely so heavily on themes of abuse and gratuitous violence. I will continue to read everyone's thoughts about this on our forum here, because I think there have been plenty of interesting discussions about this up until now.

 

I feel largely the same. My one thought is that there could be something interesting there if the acknowledge Bad Coop as part of Cooper. His actions expressions of Cooper's desires that he would normally hold in check, if he was not let loose as Mr. C has been for 25 years.

 

If it is just bad man does bad things to vulnerable women, see how bad he is, I'll be quite disappointed. Especially because the real horror of Laura's murder was how much the surreal was tied to real life horror that people actually go through. If Mr. C's actions are viewed through a lens of what a 'good man' could do, or something more poignant than that. I've only been thinking about this today but I'm sure Frost and Lynch have had thoughts for a long time.

 

Very much looking forward to the finale.

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15 minutes ago, marblize said:

What is Mr. C doing? Did he attempt to 'return' someone with his dna to the lodge in his place?

 

We know he wants the other Cooper dead from all the hired goons he sent after him, so he must also know it's Highlander rules and there can be only one.

 

Other than that, following some leads into his own mysteries it seems. I'm not sure what the coordinates from three separate sources are for beyond something to do with the experiment? He does say early in the series that the thing on the card is what he wants. Then there's the glass box which could not contain it and all that.

 

It seems as though he was just using Richard as bait in case that location was a trap. The fake Diane possibly seemed to be hoping he would have taken the bait himself as she was visibly distraught by his message afterward indicating he was fine. So perhaps she was in cahoots with Jeffries after all to take him down? Or were her coordinates the final set, the non-trap from Ruth's arm also pointing to somewhere near Twin Peaks? Who did he get all the coordinates from again? Just Diane and Ray and Jeffries? Or someone else in there? It's all kind of a blur right now.

 

Also, if he had not run into Richard shortly before that, would he have checked it out himself? Could have eventually grabbed Jerry who was nearby, I suppose.

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17 minutes ago, pyide said:

I'm really curious about MIKE now, more than before. Just what is he getting out of all this? He's been leading Dougie Coop around from wherever it is he exists by popping his red room waypoints into the real world. But to what end? Does he just want BOB back? Does he not know BOB was excised from Mr. C? And apparently he can also manufacture these "tulpas" with the seeds and some DNA? And can reach into reality from basically anywhere to exchange items (the owl ring and the hair). Of all the mysteries and transpirings in this series, MIKE's motivations, powers, and end goals are the most baffling for me.

 

In Season 2 when Coop interviews Mike, Mike says that he took off his arm but remained close to the vessel of Phillip Gerard for "one single purpose," that being to stop Bob. That of course doesn't answer all the questions, but at least goes to Mike's motivations. 

 

As for Bob being excised from Mr. C., it's important to remember that isn't actually clear, even though it's the common conclusion based on the scene from Part 8 when the Woodsmen appear after Ray shoots Coop. I'm not so sure Bob isn't still in there. I lean toward the idea the Woodsmen were just doing some kind of Block Lodge first aid on Mr. C rather than removing Bob. After all, Bob needs a vessel too, and I doubt he could find a better one than Cooper's evil twin. I know the theory that Bob is now in Sarah Palmer is popular too, but I think she's got something different inside her. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, SuperBiasedMan said:

 

I feel largely the same. My one thought is that there could be something interesting there if the acknowledge Bad Coop as part of Cooper. His actions expressions of Cooper's desires that he would normally hold in check, if he was not let loose as Mr. C has been for 25 years.

 

If it is just bad man does bad things to vulnerable women, see how bad he is, I'll be quite disappointed. Especially because the real horror of Laura's murder was how much the surreal was tied to real life horror that people actually go through. If Mr. C's actions are viewed through a lens of what a 'good man' could do, or something more poignant than that. I've only been thinking about this today but I'm sure Frost and Lynch have had thoughts for a long time.

 

Very much looking forward to the finale.

Well said. I'm a little scared that Bad Coop rapes and "traps" women in the convenience store and replaces them with tulpas or holds them in some infinitely repeating dream life or both (like we may have a tulpa Audrey hanging out in Twin Peaks that we haven't met yet?). The reason I'm "scared" of this is because it suggests to me an interdimensional travel utility to sexual violence similar to something like The Legend of the Overfiend, which would really coarsen and diminish the Laura Palmer storyline, as you say, taking it out of the realm of the everyday traumas that people endure and making it a superhero adventure story that literally runs on the debasement of women. 

 

*Edit* This is the second time on this thread I've proposed a speculative possibility for the show and then worried about how problematic it would be if it existed, which it doesn't, as of now. I don't know why I'm doing this. Sorry. 

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1 hour ago, The Great Went said:

Well said. I'm a little scared that Bad Coop rapes and "traps" women in the convenience store and replaces them with tulpas or holds them in some infinitely repeating dream life or both (like we may have a tulpa Audrey hanging out in Twin Peaks that we haven't met yet?). The reason I'm "scared" of this is because it suggests to me an interdimensional travel utility to sexual violence similar to something like The Legend of the Overfiend, which would really coarsen and diminish the Laura Palmer storyline, as you say, taking it out of the realm of the everyday traumas that people endure and making it a superhero adventure story that literally runs on the debasement of women.

Fair concern to have, but isn't into possible that, just as the supernatural elements of the original series (and FWWM moreso) served and enhanced the realness of the trauma of incest and child abuse, the Diane tulpa is a supernatural representation of how sexual assault leaves behind a damaged victim, a shell of ones pre assault self. 

 

On a wildly different note, I got a satisfying laugh out of Bushnell saying he had the Mitchems on "speed dial."

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Oh man! That was fuckin great! I made involuntary noises throughout. 

 

If that Diane was a creation of Doppeldale why would she offer the helpful information that Janey was her sister and she was in Vegas with Dougie? Did he actually rape her?

My brother had the reading that when Diane said that he sensed her fear and smiled and his face changed she saw bobs face. Which is probably an obvious reading but I missed it.

 

And I wonder what Richard and Doppeldale talk about on the car journey. Did they have the radio on or did they just spend the whole trip in excruciating silence?

 

 

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Just wanted to add that I absolutely loved Eddie Vedder's musical performance. His voice is so warm and comforting, and hearing him sing as Audrey cautiously walked into the bar was oddly affecting in a way I can't quite articulate.

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Sorry if anyone has already pointed this out, but when Diane says that Cooper leaned in to kiss her she holds up her hand to mime where his head was. Albert did almost the exact same thing after doing Laura's autopsy when he was explaining how her killer leaned in to kiss her.

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The way Sonny Jim said "No! You're my Dad! You're my Dad!" after Coop let it slip that he isn't really Dougie reminded me a lot of the sample at the beginning of Motherless Bastard by The Books. The song always reminded me of The Straight Story, so I wonder if Lynch has heard it? It's admittedly a bit of a deep cut. 

 

 

Also,  while Cooper telling them "I'll walk through that red door and be there for good" was in reference to Dougie's return, it felt like foreshadowing that Cooper will have to go back to the Lodge and will never be able to return to the real world again. 

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I think the only way this finale could disappoint me is if they answer everything. What made Twin Peaks such a wonderful experience for me was all of the questions surrounding the lodge and lore. It felt internally consistent but in a way that I was never going to really figure out. And the scariest things are the unknowable things. Leave a little bit of mystery and I'll be happy. If we get anything approaching what Lynch did with the end of season 2, I'll be over the goddamn moon.

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This is was a damn good episode! :D Cooper <3 And I loved the way the old twin peaks music felt like it was coming back with him. Now I just want him in a room with Gordon Cole and/or Twin Peaks folk. And I too love how everyone more or less just rolled with it.

 

My only gripe with this episode is the bit about Chantal being 'on the rag' with the implication that her subsequent dumb actions are partially the result of that. Exhibit #33305 of shitty representation of women in this season. The rest of that scene was amazing though. The lazy conversation between Chantal and Hutch, the slow escalation of odd visitors to the house, the FBI and the murder-van across from each other watching the house, the random neighbor guy who I thought was just gonna be murdered but who has a gun, etc... It was a lovely blend of old twin peaks looniness with the darker tone of the new season.

 

The scene with BadCoop and Richard was great, but what was especially great was Jerry and the "bad binoculars!" I was afraid BadCoop would notice him there or that he'd go up to them and get himself killed, but it turned out amazing instead.

 

I wonder what Coop's thinking he needs to go to Twin Peaks for. Seems like he might know something we don't and expect his doppelganger to be going there, or something. Or he's just going back because that's his place and he's not really Dougie.

 

Speaking of, I agree that he's having a 'new Dougie' made to slot back into Janey E and Sonny Jim's life, but that seems messed up to me, I gotta say. Making a new person to take over somebody else's life isn't really any better than taking it over yourself, if not even worse. I hope Mike can somehow restore the original Dougie, at least partially, since it's the same gold seed ball thing.

 

I almost-kinda-sorta called manufactured Diane (though I thought doppelganger rather than manufactured), so yay for that. I can buy the real Diane being Naido, but at this point I could even buy her being turned into some random object in the Sheriff's office, ala Josie, although the only notable objects I can think of are the chocolate bunnies and I still don't think it's about the bunny. Anyway, I'm not a fan of the rape backstory, but the actress and the editors did a phenomenal job of showing that slow disintegration into the uncanny. Way unsettling.

 

Incidentally, I feel like we haven't given enough credit to the hilarious amount of beeping equipment in the office with Gordon Cole et al. It's like a sublte background parody of cop shows with how much beeping and blinking lights for no reason is  going on in the background of so many of these episodes.

 

And Audrey dancing! I'm glad she's apparently in lodge-land or dream-land or both and not actually in that terrible hell marriage. And that dance and music was a nice throwback while at the same time being really unsettling, although I hadn't zoned out on the music as much as I might have since I remembered how the last episode ended.

 

I don't think all the Roadhouse scenes are Audrey-land even if only because of James and Iron Fist being thrown in the jail which we know is real (... or do we? Dun dun dun), but it'll certainly be fun to try and parse out which ones might be otherworldly during a rewatch. I really like the regular sign vs upside-down sign in a puddle theory. Or maybe the whole world has been sort of consumed by this stuff since season 2, and the Roadhouse is lodge-y but also still accessible to people. Maybe most of Twin Peaks is real and every other location in the show is in lodge-land. Maybe I should go get some sleep.

 

I still wanna know what happened to the Ghostwood development project, and to Catherine.

 

Also looking forward to seeing how Sarah Palmer/?mother? is gonna collide with everything else.

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On 8/27/2017 at 8:32 PM, UnpopularTrousers said:

Did anyone catch those hints of the old coop when Dougie got out of bed, spoke to his family, and then said he was in the FBI? I know we say this every week, but I think next week Cooper is finally gonna wake up!!!1!!1!!

 

This amused me very much. 

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Wow, the smile on Audrey's face when she was dancing was worth a lot, maybe my favorite part of the whole episode.

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There's an alternate universe where the ":-) ALL" text Mr. C sends Diane has an emoji in it. 

 

Whenever I saw that my first thought was the turn of phrase "all smiles" backwards. 

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14 hours ago, WickedCestus said:

I think it's saying "Threat Neutralized"?

 

:-) All.

 

So many great moments in this - and just two hours to wrap the season up?! It's going to be packed.

 

One moment I loved that I haven't seen mentioned was when Diane said that Coop had kissed her once before. I love that little human callback to their prior relationship, something that the real Coop probably realised was a mistake.

 

Also, perhaps I'm being a big dummy, but where has this Diane=Naido theory come from? Is it just from Naido backwards? Are people expecting Fleetwood Mac in the Roadhouse?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dartmonkey said:

Also, perhaps I'm being a big dummy, but where has this Diane=Naido theory come from? Is it just from Naido backwards? Are people expecting Fleetwood Mac in the Roadhouse?

 

Because she said "I’m in the sheriff’s station. I’m in the sheriff’s station! I sent him those coordinates. I’m in the sheriff’s station because—because I’m not me," and turned out to be a tulpa shortly after.

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If anyone in Twin Peaks jail is Diane, then I would go with bleeding repeater, the drunk guy.  It would help me accept Dougie more if being pulled into the lodge did some communication scrambling.

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So when Andy went on a field trip to the Fireman's realm, he saw a vision (presumably a glimpse of the future) of him and Lucy standing somewhere in the sheriff's department. This must have been shown to him for a reason.

 

Diane says she's in the sheriff's department. Lucy is a secretary...Diane was a secretary. 

 

Are Lucy and Diane somehow connected in a weird, Twin Peaksy way? 

 

I know this is patently absurd. I can't back this up. The answer is "no" (probably?) But this is what the new season has reduced me to. Contemplating the absurd. Seeing significance where it probably isn't. But is it? Significant? Lynch is seriously messing with my perception of events. The TP Rewatch podcast needs to continue after next week as a sort of group therapy for those of us struggling to piece our sense of reality back together.

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22 hours ago, Crunchnoisy said:

 

Holy Crappers.   (and I think Jake has hit something.  If that's not the case, it darn well should be! re: the Roadhouse reflection)

 

edit: I quoted the wrong post!  Um. Duh.

Well I got really excited by this and I went through all of the scenes. I can't see any sort of pattern. I believe I have just wasted 30 minutes of my life!

+ = Direct shot of sign

- = Puddle
 

1 + chromatics (lyrics mention stranger in a dream. James is cool scene.)

3 – folk country thing

4 + 3 keyboard ladies

5 – Dark Blues (Richard Horne assaults a woman)

6 + Lady plays electric guitar

7 + Guy Sweeps to organ blues (Jaques talks about whores)

8 ? The NIN (introduction from MC)

9 – DJ/Keyboard Broads same clothes as before (itchy armpit lady talks to her friend about flipping burgers)

10 + Spanish lady from Mulholland Drive

11 no bar (Dougie eats pie to piano man in restaurant)

12 + chromatics same cloths (guy talks about almost getting hit by car, and a bunch of names are dropped)

13 + James (sings his cool song while what’s her name cries)

14 + Terrible lady sings stupid song about Wild Wild West (two girls have conversation about Billy)

15 A + Sharp Dressed Man (James’ friend punches dudes)
     B + Terrible Obsidian Song (girl gets put on floor and crawls)

16 +  Eddie Vedder/Audrey’s Dance (guy smashes bottle/Audrey “wakes up”)

Please excuse my retarded descriptions I was trying to find a pattern but I don't see it.

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