Existing user? Posted June 20, 2017 Regarding what happened between Diane and Bad Coop, I had the same read as Jake: he visited her house shortly after emerging from the black lodge did something bad which made her hate him. We don't know what it is… but sexual assault is a pretty natural assumption given "your house" at "night". Now I find myself wondering, surprisingly for the first time, who/what Bad Coop really is. My original assumption about Bad Coop was that he was simply a vessel for Bob. But I also had the contradictory thought that Coop might be brain dead because he's missing his other half, suggesting that he'll only return to normal when Bob relinquishes Bad Coop and the two Coops become one. This notion was encouraged by observing that Bad Coop seemed weakened after Coop/Dougie's return to the world – they aren't both supposed to be outside the black lodge at the same time, so each is lessened by the existence of the other. Now I'm not sure Bad Coop really is weakened, but that was my initial read of his weird slowed down voice. Of course if Bad Coop really is a part of Cooper, and the Cooper-Bob alliance can be compared to Leland-Bob, that casts the implied incident with Diane in an even darker light. If Bad Coop is just a vessel for Bob, his crimes are horrid but lack the psychological resonance of the original Laura Palmer mystery. It's just a story about a monster. If Bad Coop is the demonically empowered id of Cooper, his crimes are both far more disturbing and perhaps more psychologically meaningful, in the tradition of the original show. But is it also a shallower retread of familiar Twin Peaks themes? I think it's much too early to say. If this is a 18-hour movie, we're just at the end of act I. Better to stay in the dream and feel how it all comes together… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eraserhead72 Posted June 20, 2017 About that scene where the jet flies along and the windows appear to white out in a sequence. It struck me as very odd... and deliberate. So i took a screencapture and messed with the levels and, from what i can tell, it looks like the windows have been digitally erased. And not particularly neatly. I did this with a bunch of different frames and its the same. Scrappy rub outs. More numbers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColonelForbin Posted June 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, JPL said: I went back and watched the Diane + Bad Coop exchange again, and just from that it seems pretty ambiguous what happened during their last meeting. On the one hand, it seems like if she'd been assaulted that night Diane would be more visibly upset to hear him talk about it now. On the other hand it's clear that Diane is very good at steeling herself and maybe she brought it up deliberately to test more than simply his identity. When Bad Coop says "I'll never forget that night" it seems more like he's repeating a sentiment left over from Good Coop's brain, than relishing a memory of something nasty he did. My money's on her last meeting being with Good Coop, just before he was sent to Twin Peaks, and maybe they connected emotionally but left it unresolved, and she's had 25+ years of zero closure. Thats pretty close to my read on it, maybe even Cooper and Diane were in a relationship before everything happened, Diane had to deal with the double whammy of losing her job, and being betrayed/having her heart broken by this man she thought she knew. She never got closure on their relationship and now holds spiteful feelings towards cooper and the FBI as a whole in result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodfella Posted June 21, 2017 This week I really, really loved Janey. Wasn't sure about her at first but she's so great. Her exasperated, determined march and the way she explained what happened during the attack to the police. Naomi Watts is fantastic. I've seen loads of talk about Cooper raping Diane and that didn't even occur to me at all when I was watching it. Don't know why people are jumping to that. I'll have to watch it again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Persistence of 3 Posted June 21, 2017 I'm wondering if Janey-E is Cooper/Dougie's guardian angel figure? Has this been commented upon? The guardian angel played a prominent role for Laura Palmer in FWWM and I'm feeling like we're seeing that dynamic again. Janey-E is always there to bail Cooper/Dougie out. Her every scene (even the one with the low-lifes in the park) is Janey-E doing something to help Cooper/Dougie along --be it tying his tie, getting him to work or getting him out of a jam with others. The tricky part is how Lynch depicts guardian angels. For Laura, they appeared as the literal archetype of the form. While for Cooper/Dougie it appears to be a figurative representation of the form. In both cases (Laura and Cooper), a vulnerable character is aided by one whose apparent role is to safely guide their charge through a perilous transition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blu3_r0s3 Posted June 21, 2017 Hey all! I have been working on some fan 'sound design' to complement the soundtrack: David Lynch/Peaks S3 mix (Phantasmagoric Nightmare Fuel) by me Some notes: Curated this over about a year. Some of the songs are show-based (already on the soundtracks for the shows or "Fire Walk With Me"), and some are what I would use on the show if I was doing Sound Design. Feel free to share. If you are on Spotify, these are cool: Roadhouse-themed Audrey Horne themed Laura Palmer themed (by me, built for shuffle) Enjoy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joewintergreen Posted June 21, 2017 Here is my stupid all-in fanwank suspicion: the corpse of Laura Palmer as found in the pilot is actually Laura's doppelganger. Laura herself is in one or another lodge. This is why Coop has to Find Laura. Or maybe the Laura we were seeing in the lodge is the doppelganger or something. I dunno, man. I think a Laura doppelganger thing might happen is what I'm sayin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DinerGirl22 Posted June 21, 2017 Hi! New poster here. I decided to listen to the podcast while rewatching all of the episodes, and FWWM, as it seemed appropriate I have so enjoyed all the discussion. In this episode, one of the things that I really haven't been able to stop pondering is the end diner scene. I was completely oblivious to all the goings on, except for the ominous music that kept steadily creeping under the song. My friend then pointed out to me that the customers/position of people in the scene completely changes after the "Billy" incident. You can see the people at the bar completely change, and also Heidi totally changes positions. Also, when I went back to watch the scene, I noticed a blue car, with luggage (??) drive back and forth several times in that one scene. Something ominous is definitely taking place...just thought I would bring it up here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joewintergreen Posted June 21, 2017 Also, I thought it was interesting the way Hawk describes the situation with Laura and Leland: "I'm sure it was Leland who hid these pages, he found them and realised that she knew". Knew what? Are Hawk and Truman both aware of the Bob/Leland thing more than I thought? And of the way she experienced that, which was iirc not being aware that it was Leland doing the thing until late in proceedings? Maybe I've just forgotten a lot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedCestus Posted June 21, 2017 This is probably an odd time to bring this up, but I was just thinking about the scene in FWWM where Cooper sees the second Coop in the security camera footage. We've seen that the Lodge can facilitate time-travel to an extent, with Annie showing up in Laura's bed and Briggs' body appearing 25 years later without aging, so it seems possible that Evil Coop somehow appeared before the events of the original show and...did something? Maybe it has something to do with Phillip Jeffries, who enters the office soon after? Or with Coop's last meeting with Diane? I'm absolutely grasping randomly at straws here, but that scene, which seemed to be setting up plot points for the sequel movies that never got made, fits a little too well into everything that's going on right now, and it makes me curious if it's going to become relevant. (I hope I'm remembering the scene correctly and not completely making this all up lol) 28 minutes ago, Lacabra said: Also, I thought it was interesting the way Hawk describes the situation with Laura and Leland: "I'm sure it was Leland who hid these pages, he found them and realised that she knew". Knew what? Are Hawk and Truman both aware of the Bob/Leland thing more than I thought? And of the way she experienced that, which was iirc not being aware that it was Leland doing the thing until late in proceedings? Maybe I've just forgotten a lot The audience only knows that Laura saw Leland as Bob because it was explicitly shown in FWWM. Basically everything that happens in FWWM is unknown to the police, other than what is indirectly hinted at by Laura's death and Leland's semi-confession, so yeah, it's totally weird that Hawk would immediately understand this evidence on those terms. Let's just chalk this up to Hawk's amazing spiritual intuition, shall we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joewintergreen Posted June 21, 2017 What happens in the scene you're talking about in FWWM with two coops (sort of) is Coop is (weirdly) staring at a security camera, going into the surveillance room to look at the feed (an empty hallway), going back out to stare at the camera, repeating this a few times, and one of the time he goes back into the surveillance room he's looking at a live feed from the hallway, but he's still in it, staring at the camera (!?!?!?) and Phillip walks past him. It is whack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thenexus6 Posted June 21, 2017 The amount of characters explaining the plot from the original season(s) annoyed me in this episode, ie Hawk, Truman, Ben Horne. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedCestus Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lacabra said: What happens in the scene you're talking about in FWWM with two coops (sort of) is Coop is (weirdly) staring at a security camera, going into the surveillance room to look at the feed (an empty hallway), going back out to stare at the camera, repeating this a few times, and one of the time he goes back into the surveillance room he's looking at a live feed from the hallway, but he's still in it, staring at the camera (!?!?!?) and Phillip walks past him. It is whack. Ohhh, I mis-remembered it as a second Coop walking past. I guess this scene can more simply just be explained by Jeffries' presence as a Lodge guy causing weird electronic interference, rather than my insane time-travelling-bad-coop theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joewintergreen Posted June 21, 2017 I mean, it's pretty weird electrical interference to like, composite two actually-happened shots seamlessly in there together...but yeah, who the fuck knows with that stuff. Here is the part. Weird overlapping of parallel realities?!?! Just weirdness for the sake of it?!?! wait i think I just solved it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperBiasedMan Posted June 21, 2017 On the podcast you guys mentioned the weird difference between the original rewatch and now recording along with the current series. Would you have any interest in doing a rewatch of the return, a couple years down the line? If you feel good about the return after it ends, it could be interesting to get that rewatch approach for this series too. Especially with how spread out but connected this whole series is shaping up to be. I know it's 18 more episodes for you to record, but if you'd entertain the idea at all, I'd be 100% on board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antikewl Posted June 21, 2017 12 hours ago, Eraserhead72 said: About that scene where the jet flies along and the windows appear to white out in a sequence. It struck me as very odd... and deliberate. So i took a screencapture and messed with the levels and, from what i can tell, it looks like the windows have been digitally erased. And not particularly neatly. I did this with a bunch of different frames and its the same. Scrappy rub outs. More numbers! Of course someone is doing this: http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/theories/flickering-airplane-windows-code/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 21, 2017 3 hours ago, DinerGirl22 said: <snip> My friend then pointed out to me that the customers/position of people in the scene completely changes after the "Billy" incident. You can see the people at the bar completely change, and also Heidi totally changes positions. <chop> Woah! Can't believe I missed that, although I did register something jarring about the cut. So much weird to speculate on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hans Bosch Posted June 21, 2017 First off, thanks for an awesome podcast! I agree with your points about recap culture, and how this show does not really fit with the easy capsule reviews and instant analysis that has became so common today. I find myself knee-deep in that culture - as soon as a TV show is over, I want to go online to see what others thought about it and read everyone's wild theories. This is not always the best way to appreciate these shows. I feel like my experience watching Westworld was somewhat diminished by various fan theories. By the time the show came to an end, and many of those theories were proved true, there was not much left for the show to reveal to me. Once all the twists had been guessed weeks before, the final episodes felt a little hollow. When Twin Peaks came back, I resolved to avoid all reviews and discussion of the series until it was over, and just let it wash over me. Any fan theories I had would be my own, and any twists would be pleasant surprise. That resolve lasted less than 24 hours. This new season of Twin Peaks has been so wonderfully weird, I wanted to share the experience with other people. While there are likely twists and plot details that discussion boards might guess weeks in advance, this is not a show like Lost where the twists is all there is. Right now, at episode seven, I have almost no idea where the season is going to progress, beyond a few half-formed ideas, and that's fine. As with Dr Jacoby's gold-plated shovels (where not a single person guessed how that little story thread would end) I feel confident that all the analysis and discussion in the world will not predict exactly what's going on in the show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Persistence of 3 Posted June 21, 2017 RE: the Phillip Jefferies scene in FWWM I feel like the key to that scene is in the opening lines. Cooper approaches Gordon Cole's desk and rather earnestly says (as if to remind Cole) that it's "10:10am on February 16th". On it's face the opening to this scene plays like several others in the movie --with a pointed and obvious establishing note. Another outrageous example of this is a cut to Leo and Shelly in thier home as Leo shouts, "This is where we live Shelly". On one hand it's a funny and quirky economy that Lynch employs throughout FWWM to establish various scenes but what if it's also a mis-direct? Because on the other hand, with the Jefferies scene here's a moment that seems to suggest that Cooper --and even Cole-- have been anticipating 10:10am on February 16th. Now that it's here, the thing they suspected --or perhaps knew-- would happen, is happening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas Posted June 21, 2017 Hey, sorry I haven't read the whole thread yet but: Has anybody connected Dougie's scrawling on his reports to the figures drawn in Owl cave? They look kinda similar in style and both have a connection to the Black Lodge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatGuyOverThere Posted June 22, 2017 18 hours ago, DinerGirl22 said: Hi! New poster here. I decided to listen to the podcast while rewatching all of the episodes, and FWWM, as it seemed appropriate I have so enjoyed all the discussion. In this episode, one of the things that I really haven't been able to stop pondering is the end diner scene. I was completely oblivious to all the goings on, except for the ominous music that kept steadily creeping under the song. My friend then pointed out to me that the customers/position of people in the scene completely changes after the "Billy" incident. You can see the people at the bar completely change, and also Heidi totally changes positions. Also, when I went back to watch the scene, I noticed a blue car, with luggage (??) drive back and forth several times in that one scene. Something ominous is definitely taking place...just thought I would bring it up here! This is really intriguing. I think we're going to get a time-travel reveal in the next ep! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phlogiston4lyfe Posted June 22, 2017 Regarding the window code from that welcometotwinpeaks link above, it's not a pseudobinary that only goes up to 21, and not that but run through rot13 or a Caesar cipher. It's also not encoded braille. So, uh, there's that. (I got real bored while watching Cabaret...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
registradus Posted June 22, 2017 Am I the only person that thought Mr Strawberry was the warden's dog? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 22, 2017 Was there any hint on why Doppelcoop might have wanted to send dog legs to his dangerous associates? It seemed like he was saying that he had informed his people of whatever the warden was up to, and that if he came to harm, then so would the warden, but splitting up a dog to do it seems like unnecessary work. I suppose there might be some ritualistic thing going on, or possibly just a grisly way to link these people for the sake of a future investigation... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
