LostInTheMovies Posted June 22, 2017 I've heard a theory that is holding the warden's dog and showed him the leg as a warning, ala Blue Velvet! Whatever's going on with Mr. Strawberry, I will not *at all* be surprised if Lynch found a three-legged dog and it's going to be making an appearance soon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gailbraithe Posted June 22, 2017 Hi there Twin Peaks Rewatch people! This is my first post. I just discovered the podcast in the days after the debut episode, and of the six or seven TP podcasts I've listened to, Chris and Jake are my favorites and seem to enjoy the show on the same level I do. I am an OG TP fan -- I first really discovered David Lynch in 1989, while I was in the 8th grade, when two friends convinced me to watch Blue Velvet by citing Dune (one of my all time favorite movies) as another Lynch project. We were all so obsessed with the movie we actually shot our own completely terrible 40 minute sequel (with a completely unrelated plot and characters...) on VHS, and so naturally when Twin Peaks was announced we went completely insane. It is my favorite TV show of all time, and Lynch remains one of my top 3 directors of all time (the other two being the Coen Bros. and Peter Greenaway, but I will never tell anyone the order because I still don't know myself). So, intros out of the way, here's why I signed up: There are a lot of people speculating to the effect that Evil Cooper raped Diane or that Good Cooper had an affair with Diane. I have a lot of problems with these theories . I'd like to walk you through my reasoning and suggest an alternative theory that actually explains all of the facts as we know them. Here's what we know: Diane has cut her ties to the FBI and has an antagonistic attitude towards Gordon Cole and his minions. Despite this antagonism, Diane is willing to drop everything and fly with Cole to South Dakota to interview Cooper. Diane is clearly aware of the nature of Cole's work re: the Blue Rose cases. Something happened the last time Dale and Diane saw each other, which was at Diane's house. Diane recognized that Evil Cooper is not Cooper more or less the second she saw him. 1) The "Evil Cooper raped Diane" theory makes little sense to me, as it would suggest that Diane had met the Evil Cooper before, but if that were the case, then why would she be so visibly shaken by her encounter with Evil Cooper? Given how easily she recognized that this Cooper is not the Cooper she knew -- and how she makes it clear that it isn't just the passage of time or the change in appearance that is different, but rather his absence of a soul -- it seems utterly implausible that she had not only met Evil Cooper before, but been raped by him. Some people have responded to this criticism by suggesting that Evil Cooper may have been better at impersonating Good Cooper immediately after he left the Black Lodge, and then somehow lost the ability to impersonate him over the years, but I find this highly implausible. There's nothing to suggest it, and Evil Cooper even has to fake a serious head wound just to throw Sheriff Truman and Doc Heyward off his scent. I find it extremely hard to believe that Diane would drop everything and fly to South Dakota with Cole, who she clearly doesn't like, to help with Cooper if the last time she saw Cooper he had raped her. The only possible explanation I can see for Diane to go see Cooper in prison if Cooper raped her would be to confront her attacker and gloat over his imprisonment, but the scene between them doesn't have that tone. There's no anger in Diane when she confronts Cooper, only dread. Furthermore she is clearly devastated by the interaction with Evil Cooper because she has realized his heart (soul) is missing, and I find it difficult to believe that would be shocking to her if she had been raped by him. The "Evil Cooper raped Diane" theory is completely full of holes. It fails to explain Diane's reaction to seeing Evil Cooper, it fails to explain Diane's antagonism towards Cole and the FBI, and it fails to explain why Diane would be willing to help Cole regarding Cooper. The entire theory seems to rest on the belief that Twin Peaks is a Show About Rape, and that everything in the show must somehow connect back to rape and sexual violence. 2) The next theory I see floating around is that Dale and Diane had a romantic/sexual encounter before he left for Twin Peaks, and this is what she is referring to when she eludes to the last time they saw each other. However, this theory also suffers from several major problems. Dale Cooper is a genuinely good person, who is kind, compassionate and forthright. It is hard to imagine Dale being the love 'em and leave 'em sort, yet that is precisely what we have to accept if we assume that Dale and Diane had sex before Dale came to Twin Peaks. Let's go back to Season 2, Episode 1, when Dale is lying on the floor of his hotel room and dying (as far as he knows) from a gutshot and makes a dying confession to Diane. This is not the confession of a man speaking to a woman he loves in a romantic way. In fact, there is one line that makes this a cruel and mean-spirited confession if we start with the assumption that Dale and Diane have had a sexual relationship: Quote "I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman whom I had genuine affection for." Now, I believe that if you listen to Cooper's many notes to Diane over the course of the original series, it is clear that Cooper has genuine affection for Diane. He speaks to her as one would to a close and dear friend, sharing his fears, his dreams, his innermost thoughts. Diane is also a beautiful woman. It would take a truly misogynistic neckbeard to deny that Laura Dern is an attractive woman. Thus if Cooper had a sexual relationship with Diane, then he would have "made love to a beautiful woman for whom he had genuine affection." So to then list making love to a woman for whom he has genuine affection as one of the things he regrets having never done in a dying confession to Diane would be unimaginably cruel and thoughtless -- traits we would never associate with Dale Cooper. Let's pretend he had died on that hotel room floor, his last message to Diane would be "Hey Diane, remember when we had sex? Yeah, I either had no affection for you or I think you're unattractive. Burn!" That seems unimaginably cruel for Dale Cooper. Additionally, Cooper is clearly free of romantic entanglements when he arrives in Twin Peaks. This is made obvious from his interactions with both Audrey Horne and Annie Blackburn. Again, Cooper does not seem like the sort of man who would causally use a good friend for sex, and we have to assume that if Dale and Diane hooked-up immediately before Dale was sent to Twin Peaks, then Dale would have deflected Audrey's attentions with a simple "Audrey, I can't return your affections, I'm already involved in a relationship. I'm sorry." Finally, if Diane's bitterness was over Dale loving and leaving her, this would not sufficiently explain her clear antipathy to Cole and the FBI. Why would she blame Cole and his crew or the FBI for Dale being a cad and a heel? It's clear that Diane has quit the FBI and wants nothing to do with Cole and the gang, so any theory must naturally account for this fact. 3) However, I do have a theory that explains all the facts: Dale and Diane are very good platonic friends, an extension of their professional relationship. They have genuine affection for each other, but do not have any romantic interest in each other. They have never had a sexual encounter. Diane is aware of the nature of Cole's work re: the Blue Rose cases. Diane may, in fact, have been the original Tammy Preston, serving a similar role in Cole's group. Like all of Cole's agents, Diane had a strong sense of loyalty to Cole and his mission, but this changed following the disappearance of Agent Phillip Jefferies, Windham Earle's psychotic break and confinement in a psychiatric facility, and then the disappearance of Agent Chester Desmond. Diane began to develop concerns over Cole and his obsession with the Blue Rose cases, coming to believe that Cole was willing to endanger and sacrifice his own agents in pursuit of a greater understanding of the Blue Rose cases. She began to lose her faith in Cole. Shortly before Dale left for Twin Peaks, Diane asked Dale to meet her at her home. There she confided her doubts in Cole to Dale, and her fear that he would suffer the same fate as Jefferies and Desmond. Dale, whose loyalty to Cole was rock solid, brushed off Diane's concerns. They fought about it, and Diane extracted a promise from Dale that he would not do anything stupid or dangerous -- that he would not allow himself to become another victim of Cole's obsession. Dale was subsequently lost to the Black Lodge, another victim of the Blue Rose case. This caused Diane to break with the FBI and with Cole. It explains Diane's antagonism towards Cole, his minions and the FBI: She blames Cole for Cooper vanishing, and has come to see Cole as a kind of cult leader, recklessly endangering the agents under his command to feed his obsession with the Blue Rose case, and blames Cole's minions and the FBI for empowering him. She feels hurt and betrayed by Cooper, who promised her he would keep himself safe, hence her reaction of "Good!" when she finds out Dale is in a federal prison, but she still cares for Cooper and is concerned for his well-being, which is why she agrees to help Cole despite her reservations. Her real antipathy is towards Cole, which is why we get "Fuck you, Gordon!" and "Fuck you, Albert!" and even "Fuck you, Tammy!" (This fuck you didn't seem to be a result of anything Preston did, except being Cole's lackey). Her real resentment is towards Cole, but this spills over in resentment towards those agents who are still loyal to Cole and enable his obsession (i.e. Albert and Tammy). However, once she realizes Cooper is different, she also realizes that Cole is likely Cooper's only hope, which is why her attitude towards him shifts so dramatically. She doesn't want to tell Cole about "that night" because "Well, Gordon, I told Dale I think you're a dangerous lunatic and that your obsession was going to get him killed or worse, which is exactly what happened, but now I need your help." So instead she says they'll have a talk, and follows it up with what? "Cheers to the FBI," said with no small amount of scorn, Because as much as she hates the FBI, she knows they're Dale's only hope. So that's my theory. What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gailbraithe Posted June 22, 2017 23 hours ago, DinerGirl22 said: Hi! New poster here. I decided to listen to the podcast while rewatching all of the episodes, and FWWM, as it seemed appropriate I have so enjoyed all the discussion. In this episode, one of the things that I really haven't been able to stop pondering is the end diner scene. I was completely oblivious to all the goings on, except for the ominous music that kept steadily creeping under the song. My friend then pointed out to me that the customers/position of people in the scene completely changes after the "Billy" incident. You can see the people at the bar completely change, and also Heidi totally changes positions. Also, when I went back to watch the scene, I noticed a blue car, with luggage (??) drive back and forth several times in that one scene. Something ominous is definitely taking place...just thought I would bring it up here! Hi DinerGirl! I don't think anything ominous is happening in this scene. I think it's just an issue of using non-professional actors and the vagaries of filmmaking. The final scene in the RR Diner consists of six shots: Here's a list of the shots: Shot Type of Shot A Stock Diner Footage B Scripted Scene C Norma Insert Shot D Scripted Scene E Norma Insert Shot F Stock Diner Footage Shots B and D were probably shot at the same time, with two camera rolling (one at the end of each aisle). This footage was not long enough to fill the necessary time, so it was padded out with the stock diner footage. The stock diner footage was shot at an entirely different time -- maybe even different day -- as the scene footage. The Norma insert shots were also probably shot at an entirely different time, and then cut into the scene to hide the cuts from the scripted scene footage to the stock footage. The extras change between the Stock Footage and the Scripted Scene Footage because they were shot at entirely different times, and it was impossible to get the same extras back, and some of them moved around. Most of these extras are just local non-professionals, probably weren't even paid. This is a pretty boring explanation for the vanishing extras, but it's probably a more likely explanation than time travel or multiple co-existing dimensions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 22, 2017 The 'stock footage' at F shares several of the same crowd members, in the same costume, as 'scripted scene' B - particularly at the counter itself, although the tables change around a bit. @Gailbraithe - not sure I buy it, but I don't think we know enough yet to be sure... In particular, I didn't get the impression that Doppelcoop was faking a head wound - I think he was actively trying to put one over on Albert and Gordon, but having trouble being convincing. For the moment I am assuming that this was because Goodcoop had just entered the world, and this was messing with Doppelcoop's mojo in some sense, although it may be that his mojo is only affected when attempting to impersonate Goodcoop now that he has returned. (Granted this would be oddly specific, although it would sort of thematically tie in with Goodcoop being stuck 'impersonating' someone else too). Either that, or it was the loss of his garmonbozia which was causing Doppelcoop's unconvincing behaviour, and since that scene he has caused enough misery just within the lock-up to refill the tank somewhat. Also, not sure Diane's reaction to Doppelcoop must necessarily be read as you have... Consider this: say Doppelcoop did assault her after leaving the Black Lodge, and got away with it either because in those days he was more convincing when pretending to be the 'real' Cooper, or because Diane had no reason to suppose he wasn't. Perhaps what she is dreading when she goes to see him is that he *will* be the guy she knew for years, that he'll just be good old Cooper, and as a corollary, that good old Cooper is capable of horrible things, and that she had been too blind to see it for years. This becomes anger when it becomes apparent that she was attacked by some new, soulless thing, rather than by a colleague/friend of long standing. Your thoughts on her anger at Gordon & the FBI in general might still fit this interpretation, Gordon and the Bureau being responsible for Desmond & Jeffries turning her from the FBI, but possibly also blaming them for the change in Coop which would make him violent/abusive. All of which said - I don't really think that what we have to go on conclusively supports either interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedCestus Posted June 22, 2017 I am hoping Galbraithe's supposition is more correct. The idea that BadCoop was any good at faking being Coop at the start doesn't hold much water for me, because from the one scene we see of him in the finale of season 2, he's already acting like a total BadCoop weirdo. On top of that, I just don't think sexual assault has to be the go-to reason for conflict between a man and a woman on TV, and like you mentioned, it doesn't explain her antagonism for rest of the FBI, unless they for whatever reason defended Coop, which is a situation that just doesn't fit anyone's character at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemariano Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Gailbraithe said: So that's my theory. What do you think? It requires a formal definition of a Blue Rose case which we might never get (which is OK as long as all the involved characters know it), but it explains Diane's actions and reactions very well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemariano Posted June 22, 2017 How quickly will the doppelganger Cooper dispatch Ray? Is Ray basically a goner once Mr. C. gets him alone, or is Mr. C. going to use him to get to the people who hired him? I can't tell what the doppelganger currently views as an obstacle to his plan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gailbraithe Posted June 22, 2017 50 minutes ago, BonusWavePilot said: The 'stock footage' at F shares several of the same crowd members, in the same costume, as 'scripted scene' B - particularly at the counter itself, although the tables change around a bit. Those are probably crew members, especially the three guys who are in the foreground. Quote @Gailbraithe - not sure I buy it, but I don't think we know enough yet to be sure... In particular, I didn't get the impression that Doppelcoop was faking a head wound - I think he was actively trying to put one over on Albert and Gordon, but having trouble being convincing. I was referring to the final scene of S2, when Evil Cooper slammed his head into the mirror in his hotel room at the Great Northern. Quote Also, not sure Diane's reaction to Doppelcoop must necessarily be read as you have... Consider this: say Doppelcoop did assault her after leaving the Black Lodge, and got away with it either because in those days he was more convincing when pretending to be the 'real' Cooper, or because Diane had no reason to suppose he wasn't. Perhaps what she is dreading when she goes to see him is that he *will* be the guy she knew for years, that he'll just be good old Cooper, and as a corollary, that good old Cooper is capable of horrible things, and that she had been too blind to see it for years. This becomes anger when it becomes apparent that she was attacked by some new, soulless thing, rather than by a colleague/friend of long standing. It's certainly possible, I just find the idea stains credulity to the breaking point. I just find the "Evil Cooper used to be good at fooling people, but now can't even maintain the illusion for a few seconds" theory to be kind of...well, desperate. It sounds like grasping at straws to me, like a theory that doesn't explain the facts, but rather tries to explain the facts away. It took no time at all for Diane to realize that Evil Cooper is not Good Cooper, and I find it really hard to believe she wouldn't have noticed that he's this evil, soulless creature while he was raping her. I mean, yeah, sure, could be. Just strikes me as really bad writing if that's the case. Like way below what I'd expect from Frynch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dartmonkey Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, BonusWavePilot said: Also, not sure Diane's reaction to Doppelcoop must necessarily be read as you have... Consider this: say Doppelcoop did assault her after leaving the Black Lodge, and got away with it either because in those days he was more convincing when pretending to be the 'real' Cooper, or because Diane had no reason to suppose he wasn't. Perhaps what she is dreading when she goes to see him is that he *will* be the guy she knew for years, that he'll just be good old Cooper, and as a corollary, that good old Cooper is capable of horrible things, and that she had been too blind to see it for years. This becomes anger when it becomes apparent that she was attacked by some new, soulless thing, rather than by a colleague/friend of long standing. I also don't buy the 'he used to be better a pretending' theory because even if Cooper suddenly became an ABSOLUTE dick, who the hell is going to think 'My God - he's obviously an evil twin from another dimension!' and not simply attribute it to a harrowing, personality-altering experience in Twin Peaks? He could be AWFUL at imitating GoodCoop and it wouldn't make a difference. It needn't have been a physical assault. Perhaps he used Cooper's knowledge to manipulate her or blackmail her, to get some information he wanted. Perhaps he destroyed her career at the FBI and they failed to support her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Gailbraithe said: I was referring to the final scene of S2, when Evil Cooper slammed his head into the mirror in his hotel room at the Great Northern. Ah, gotcha! While I think Badcoop's inability to fake it in his meeting with Gordon was at least partly situational (given the slowed-down speech and strange affect), it does seem unlikely Diane wouldn't have known something was wrong if Badcoop had turned up post-lodge back in the day. I don't think he had the black irises back in the end of S2 / FWWM days, but presumably was 'missing something' then too. (My memories of FWWM are very hazy at this point) I hope it doesn't end up being some kind of assault, though I must admit I still harbour some suspicion it will. Possibly just a few too many girlfriends-in-fridges in my media over the years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baladec Posted June 22, 2017 Has in been discussed how Bad Coop knows so much about good Coop? It's doesn't strike me that his doppleganger knows anything about his counterpart, but instead is being directed by BOB who had an incredible amount of exposure to Coop and those close to him. The through-line I get is that BOB is a being of dark chaos and Bad Coop wishes to unravel every good thing Coop has done and turn it for his own profit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoxcarMaggie Posted June 22, 2017 Also thought the silliness (and the fact that he was fishing) of the scene with Doc Hayward was a nice nod to Pete Martell/Jack Nance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ihateasparagus Posted June 22, 2017 Some have suggested that the 315 key arriving in Ben's office is proof that "Dougie-World" and "Twin Peaks" take place in the same reality/plane/what-have-you. I just realized something which could indicate otherwise. The key which Dougie and Jade had was clearly not a "real" Great Northern key. "Clean Place Reasonably Priced" --- Cooper's line from the S1 Pilot --- was printed on the back. In Dougie-land we see Jade drop this key in a mailbox. Does the key which Ben now has also bear this inscription? The question may still remain---Who mailed it and from where? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brooke Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/19/2017 at 9:51 AM, TurboPubx-16 said: I wonder if Dougie's fame will spread on the Internet and Hawk will find him in a Vine or something I wonder the same! I get the sense we're nearing the end of Coop-as-Dougie (or at least a pivotal evolution) with the end of this episode switching to a tv-within-tv perspective. Coop-Dougie has gained visibility beyond his slice of suburbia and my hunch is that contacts from Coop's old life will see his ninja exploits on tv and ID him. It only makes sense in the Twin Peaks world where every piece of empirical evidence is visually associative (Hawk drops Indian head dime, Hawk sees logo on door, Hawk discovers missing diary pages). And every shred of Twin Peaks lore is a spread of iconographic nods (Lancelot Court/Merlin's Market, the numerology carried over from Fire Walk With Me, the "blue rose" carry-over from Fire Walk With Me, the blue-tone of each scene where "blue rose" has been mentioned so far, etc). Cookie-cutter suburbia and their deteriorating subdevelopments (the most American symbol of vapid exteriority) contains both potential for underlying psychic menace as well as its dual operators of good. Coop-Dougie will be seen and discovered and reconnected to the gestures of his old self. Whatever luck or intuition leads the characters of Twin Peaks from one clue to another, I think (hope?), will begin to merge the different (yet similar in their conflicts) landscapes together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 23, 2017 58 minutes ago, Brooke said: I get the sense we're nearing the end of Coop-as-Dougie (or at least a pivotal evolution) with the end of this episode switching to a tv-within-tv perspective. Coop-Dougie has gained visibility beyond his slice of suburbia and my hunch is that contacts from Coop's old life will see his ninja exploits on tv and ID him. It only makes sense in the Twin Peaks world where every piece of empirical evidence is visually associative (Hawk drops Indian head dime, Hawk sees logo on door, hawk discovers missing diary pages). And every shred of Twin Peaks lore is a spread of iconographic nods (Lancelot Court/Merlin's Market, the numerology carried over from Fire Walk With Me, the "blue rose" carry-over from Fire Walk With Me, etc). Cookie-cutter suburbia and their deteriorating subdevelopments (the most American symbol of vapid exteriority) contains both potential for underlying psychic menace as well as its dual operators of good. Coop-Dougie will be seen and discovered and reconnected to the gestures of his old self. Whatever luck or intuition leads the characters of Twin Peaks from one clue to another, I think (hope?), will begin to merge the different (yet similar in their conflicts) landscapes together. Yep, I suspect you're right and we're heading for a change in the Coop-as-Dougie plot. Although now that both Coops are on the loose, that change could just be Doppelcoop trying to kill Dougiecoop more personally (I wonder how the luck of Mr Jackpots would hold out against a co-ordinated attack from a doppelganger and his ghostly assistant), or the comedy of errors of the investigation only finding Dougiecoop after Doppelcoop has escaped, and assuming (at least initially) that they are one and the same. (It seems like Albert and Gordon at least are already sufficiently up to speed on the idea of a 'bad Cooper' that they might figure that Dougicoop isn't the same person, but others in the Bureau / police are unlikely to make the same assumption) Man it would be nice to get a fully-functioning Goodcoop again though. Still, I will settle for some more detail on what Doppelcoop's plan is, and what he has been up to all these years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gailbraithe Posted June 23, 2017 What do people think Evil Cooper is up to in a general sense? It feels to me like Evil Cooper is somehow tied up with Mr. Duncan and the anonymous billionaire behind the Glass Box. The reason I think they are all connected is because: Darlene and Evil Cooper both report to the Black Box in Buenos Aires. Mr. Duncan sent Ike the Spike to kill Darlene for failing to kill Dougie Jones. Mr. Duncan seems to work for the same mysterious billionaire that employed Sam Colby to watch the Glass Box. It seems like Evil Cooper is up to something quite grand and decidedly supernatural, and might even be the anonymous billionaire. If we assume that, as Cooper's doppleganger, Evil Cooper is some sort of inverse Cooper, then his goals might be the inversion of Cooper's goals. Cooper seems to desire a deeper and more meaningful connection to the universe so that he can be a better person and achieve more good in the world, which suggests Evil Cooper might have similarly lofty and spiritual goals, but twisted towards more evil ends. If we imagine Cooper as a sort of "white wizard," who uses his heightened intuition and deep spiritual connection to the universe in the furtherance of good (re: The Tibetan Method), then Evil Cooper would be a "black magician," using his heightened intuition and deep spiritual connection to the universe in the furtherance of evil. I don't think Evil Cooper has goals that are as base and small-minded as Leland, who only seemed to want to slake his lusts and hide his crimes from the world. In any other show, I would assume that Evil Cooper was plotting to open a gate to Hell or summon Cthulhu from the depths of ancient R'lyeh. In this show? No idea. But it's got to be something big... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemariano Posted June 23, 2017 Did a Twitter search for a text snippet of the third diary page that wasn't read by Truman or Hawk. Whoever this Twin Peaks fan is is smart! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BonusWavePilot Posted June 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Gailbraithe said: What do people think Evil Cooper is up to in a general sense? It feels to me like Evil Cooper is somehow tied up with Mr. Duncan and the anonymous billionaire behind the Glass Box. The reason I think they are all connected is because: Darlene and Evil Cooper both report to the Black Box in Buenos Aires. Mr. Duncan sent Ike the Spike to kill Darlene for failing to kill Dougie Jones. Mr. Duncan seems to work for the same mysterious billionaire that employed Sam Colby to watch the Glass Box. It seems like Evil Cooper is up to something quite grand and decidedly supernatural, and might even be the anonymous billionaire. If we assume that, as Cooper's doppleganger, Evil Cooper is some sort of inverse Cooper, then his goals might be the inversion of Cooper's goals. Cooper seems to desire a deeper and more meaningful connection to the universe so that he can be a better person and achieve more good in the world, which suggests Evil Cooper might have similarly lofty and spiritual goals, but twisted towards more evil ends. If we imagine Cooper as a sort of "white wizard," who uses his heightened intuition and deep spiritual connection to the universe in the furtherance of good (re: The Tibetan Method), then Evil Cooper would be a "black magician," using his heightened intuition and deep spiritual connection to the universe in the furtherance of evil. I don't think Evil Cooper has goals that are as base and small-minded as Leland, who only seemed to want to slake his lusts and hide his crimes from the world. In any other show, I would assume that Evil Cooper was plotting to open a gate to Hell or summon Cthulhu from the depths of ancient R'lyeh. In this show? No idea. But it's got to be something big... Excellent questions! If Doppelcoop is the owner of the box (and he could conceivably have acquired millions in the quarter century gap between seasons), I wonder whether it was involved in his plan to mess up the Good/Bad Cooper crossover, or if he is more interested in the 'Mom' being that seemed to be pursuing Coop (or neither)... Another thought - we still don't know who not-Phillip-Jeffries was who taunted Badcoop about going back in. This could be another candidate for the shadowy billionaire (he seems to know a lot about the Lodges, perhaps studying things travelling back & forth to them with the glass box is part of how this knowledge was acquired)... Utterly speculative of course. Also, amongst the garmonbozia Badcoop was throwing up was a lot of what looked like oil. I wonder if there is a connection with that oily stuff, and the 'opening to a gateway' oil that the Log Lady gives Coop in S2... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fellintooblivion Posted June 23, 2017 So for the people who didn't get a sexual assault vibe off the discussion between Diane and Cooper about the last time they saw each other, what did you think they were talking about? I think it's pretty clear Lynch was trying to imply/make us think that's what happened considering the context of their conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fellintooblivion Posted June 23, 2017 12 hours ago, BonusWavePilot said: Excellent questions! If Doppelcoop is the owner of the box (and he could conceivably have acquired millions in the quarter century gap between seasons), I wonder whether it was involved in his plan to mess up the Good/Bad Cooper crossover, or if he is more interested in the 'Mom' being that seemed to be pursuing Coop (or neither)... Another thought - we still don't know who not-Phillip-Jeffries was who taunted Badcoop about going back in. This could be another candidate for the shadowy billionaire (he seems to know a lot about the Lodges, perhaps studying things travelling back & forth to them with the glass box is part of how this knowledge was acquired)... Utterly speculative of course. Also, amongst the garmonbozia Badcoop was throwing up was a lot of what looked like oil. I wonder if there is a connection with that oily stuff, and the 'opening to a gateway' oil that the Log Lady gives Coop in S2... I believe Cooper is the owner of that building as well. When they showed the picture of him in South America he was in a mansion that looked like it belonged in a movie about a drug lord. Also consider that it's highly unlikely the person who set up that room didn't understand the potential danger to anyone in it when whatever they were looking for appeared. Perhaps they were sacrifices in addition to being there to change out the SD cards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fellintooblivion Posted June 23, 2017 Frost put some pretty glaring inconsistencies in TSHOTP, stuff that was going to be obvious to a large portion of the people who read it. When asked about it he said "All will be revealed" not "oops" or "yea that's the new official canon". To to me this pretty clearly indicates were going to end up with two separate timelines at some point and I think the people changing in the diner scene is part of that. Could it it have simply been a matter of not being able to get the same people back for pick up shots? Of course but the fact that that scene is completely unnecessary makes me think otherwise. That scene could have been cut and it wouldn't have negatively impacted the show in any way. So either it was intentional or it was something Lynch knew about and left in to fuck with us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FRENDEN Posted June 24, 2017 One possible outcome of the Dougie hitting local TV thing is that the baddies which run the casino see him on television and attempt to hunt him down. I'm 50/50 with that storyline resolving as above or with Badcoop entering the casino and triggering the goons unknowingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gailbraithe Posted June 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, FRENDEN said: I'm 50/50 with that storyline resolving as above or with Badcoop entering the casino and triggering the goons unknowingly. I have a sneaky suspicion that if Evil Cooper enters the casino and triggers the mob goons, that will end very badly for the mob goons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatGuyOverThere Posted June 24, 2017 It seems somewhat odd that no one cares that Matthew Lillard's wife and Dahlia were murdered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ash_NR Posted June 24, 2017 Rewatched the episode last night and can't help but think that Diane feels absolutely let down by Gordon and the FBI. On 2017-6-22 at 3:44 PM, Gailbraithe said: It took no time at all for Diane to realize that Evil Cooper is not Good Cooper, and I find it really hard to believe she wouldn't have noticed that he's this evil, soulless creature while he was raping her I like what you had to say to back up your not sexual assault Gailbraithe, and I really hope that that is the case. Because an honest, falling out between 2 people will serve to develop Diane much better as we go back and read between the lines of all of Dale's tapes to her. I don't know how I feel about EvilCoop being the billionaire benefactor of the glass box operation. But the evolution of the arm seems more and more to me to be the brain and nervous system regrowing (ie: the Arm being able to manifest themselves in the physical world). And man, did the creepy monster in the box in the first episode look like the Arm's weird tree face. EvilCoop setting up an elaborate operation to contain the Arm who appears to be the most antagonistic towards to BOB and his previous theft of the garmonbozia, isn't a ridiculous idea (just the Lost-iest). And the Arm compelling DougieCoop to "squeeze his hand off" could be establishing a more involved partnership in the coming episodes. That would explain why GoodCoop was "caught" by the glass box as he was ejected(?) from the Red Room. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites