Star Wars VII - Open spoilers

[Thrik]

There were nunchakus at some point weren't there? Maybe it was some EU silliness.

[tegan]

I want to see someone open their mail with a tiny lightsaber now.

[Bolegium]

Butter knife

Why are toasters even a thing? So primitive...

[gregbrown]

That said, the way he shot the Enterprise exteriors in the first Star Trek (the other iconic spaceship in popular sci fi), I fully loved. That ship was almost never fully in frame until late in the movie, and it made it feel like both a submarine and a city in the best way. The early reveal of the Enterprise conveyed the grandeur and bulk of a Star Trek vessel better than any previous Trek had, to me. So I am not trying to sell him or his abilities short or something. I just think he sometimes gets flashy when whats going on is already rad enough on its own.

 

Really enjoyed the starship stuff in his first Star Trek film because he did such a great job of emphasizing scale and using the iconic shapes to do some really cool staging, especially when he willfully violated that space has an "up" direction. (The gorgeous backgrounds also helped.) The second film was a big step back, but largely because there weren't as interesting opportunities as in the first.

 

Part of my frustration with the shot in the trailer is that it's throwing all that out in pursuit of a trademark style. Granted, it may be for a valid in-story reason (like the person flying the Millennium Falcon has no idea what they're doing), but the great thing of the original Star Wars films were how readable the compositions were. So many of these new shots are busy in the same way as the prequels were busy: throwing in background objects, or having them interact in complicated ways that would have been difficult to do with models (wacky camera moves, water spray). Ambient traffic on Coruscant was the worst offender, distracting audiences during already bone-dry dialogue scenes.

 

Anyways, the best thing I can say about the new trailer is it REALLY made me want to go back and watch The Empire Strikes Back.

[Bjorn]

[dartmonkey]

I saw that and immediately got excited because it looked cool, then disappointed that the trailer confused me with the spin, and finally worried that I'm too old for this shit.

 

By which I mean crazy spinning cameras and busy frames. I've seen part of the first Transformers film and couldn't stand it. Optimus Prime was fighting someone else on the side of a building (I think) and I couldn't make any sense of it. There were thousands of pieces of concrete debris and metal fins and moving doohickeys and I couldn't see what the hell was going on. Now I'm wondering if it's a fault of the film (which has many other faults besides) or if I'm the olde timer running away from the screen as the train approaches.

 

I'm a relatively film and media-literate 30 year old. Is it possible that I'm over the hill and just not fast enough to read this filmic txtspk?

[Nappi]

 

[Nachimir]

I saw that and immediately got excited because it looked cool, then disappointed that the trailer confused me with the spin, and finally worried that I'm too old for this shit.

 

By which I mean crazy spinning cameras and busy frames. I've seen part of the first Transformers film and couldn't stand it. Optimus Prime was fighting someone else on the side of a building (I think) and I couldn't make any sense of it. There were thousands of pieces of concrete debris and metal fins and moving doohickeys and I couldn't see what the hell was going on.

 

In Transformers case, it's definitely the fault of the film; none of the characters have clear outlines and any identifying features big enough for your eyes to see at speed are mostly thrown out in favour of grimdark greebles. For characters so strongly based around colour, the fights made very little use of it, and are mostly just action flavour mush that you definitely shouldn't feel old for not following.

 

Star Wars though: The Super Hexagon player in me gets on so well with spinning stuff that the camera spin didn't even register until Mington posted that gif.

[BigJKO]

[Nappi]

Hahaha, brilliant!

[melmer]

I wonder if that falcon shot is the tail end of a loop the loop, or loop with a 180 turn so that the falcon is flying back the way it came, (makes sense as those tie fighters were probably chasing) and that this crazy camera movement is just the camera catching up after the manoeuvre.

What makes it confusing from me is that it appears the falcon is flying upwards, but then the ground appears because the cameras upside down and my brain melts, BUT, if I'd watch this shot with the 5-10 secs that precedes it my brain would understand perfectly what's happening. Seeing the entire loop the loop from the beginning and not jumping in halfway through.

Guys, it's gonna be fine

[Nachimir]

It's a reverse Immelman turn! god don't you know anything mington

Imagine you're tilting your head back to follow something flying over you, and can somehow fold it right over until the back of your head touches your back, then your head spins 180 degrees to put everything the right way up. Then you'd basically be doing what the camera is doing in the gif, also no one would ever love you.

 

On seeing these two side by side, I'm with Jake, the non-spinny shot is way better:

 

 

 

It expresses inertia and power. In the original shot, the camera is moving so fast and so far from the ground that the moment the ship nearly hits is barely noticeable.

[BigJKO]

The problem with that backseat-directing shot is that the sense of intertia and power comes from the fact that you can see the ship moving way from the top to bottom. Which means the Falcon would be tiny if this were an actual shot..

It would be fun to see it stabilized but where the framing doesn't race from the top to the bottom, just to see what it looks like.

[CollegeBaby]

Name a cooler sword than a broadsword HAHA YOU CAN'T!

 

Katana lightsaber.

 

George Takei holding a katana lightsaber.

 

A Seven Samurai (in space) with George Takei holding a katana lightsaber.

[feelthedarkness]

For as goofy as I find that opening shot of the trailer (Narrator: "Something has awoken" *almost comical shot of a man waking up in the desert*), the significance of having a black Stormtrooper being the first thing you see in a Star Wars movie is not lost on me. That character and the prominent woman are hopeful signs that Star Wars is moving away from its male, whitewashed universe.

 

I agree with the sentiment, but it's also immediately tempered by my suspicion that you're not seeing a stormtrooper, but a main character in a stormtrooper uniform.

 

I very strongly dislike JJ's treatment of the Star Trek stuff, not the least of which is the 2nd movie which is a slapdash remake Kahn, trading on plot points without the benefit of earning the history. Specifically reversing Kirk/Spock's roles in the end, and then almost immediately hitting the undo button. Blech.

 

Anyway, I will bet you all 1,000 spacebucks he's recycling Luke/Han stealing the uniforms.

 

Also, while I'm ranting. The medieval sabersword: I'm really not some purist, but I think it's a distinction that implies missing a larger point. The original fights were samurai duels, given Lucas' Kurosawa inspiration. They were low on kinetic action, because the drama was in the mind. That has been slowly eroded over the years with all the CGI flippy action, so seeing this thing doesn't inspire confidence.

[Bjorn]

It's a reverse Immelman turn! god don't you know anything mington

Imagine you're tilting your head back to follow something flying over you, and can somehow fold it right over until the back of your head touches your back, then your head spins 180 degrees to put everything the right way up. Then you'd basically be doing what the camera is doing in the gif, also no one would ever love you.

 

On seeing these two side by side, I'm with Jake, the non-spinny shot is way better:

 

 

 

It expresses inertia and power. In the original shot, the camera is moving so fast and so far from the ground that the moment the ship nearly hits is barely noticeable.

 

Seeing them side by side, I actually like the original better.  I don't see where it loses much in the inertia or power department (maybe a bit, but not a ton).  But what it has is disorientation.  Assuming that this is likely some sort of chase scene, the Falcon is going to be pulling some turns that would be disorienting to both passengers and chasers, and the "fixed" version loses any of that. 

[Ben X]

Seeing them side by side, I actually like the original better.  I don't see where it loses much in the inertia or power department (maybe a bit, but not a ton).  But what it has is disorientation.  Assuming that this is likely some sort of chase scene, the Falcon is going to be pulling some turns that would be disorienting to both passengers and chasers, and the "fixed" version loses any of that. 

 

Yes, agree!

 

I don't think every action sequence in the film is going to be wholly comprised of shots like this, it's a special case to accentuate the move. Plus that gif cheats by ignoring the first bit of the shot.

[Nachimir]

Anyway, I will bet you all 1,000 spacebucks he's recycling Luke/Han stealing the uniforms.

 

In the shot of them all lined up, one of the troopers is shorter than all of the others

[Thrik]

I think the original shot is great, in that it's meant to show you what following that ship would look like if you were in another ship trying to chase it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that is in fact exactly what happens in the actual film. It'd get pretty overwhelming if swathes of the film were filmed that way, but being a trailer it seems obvious that they'd go out of their way to include such money shots.

[Argobot]

I agree with the sentiment, but it's also immediately tempered by my suspicion that you're not seeing a stormtrooper, but a main character in a stormtrooper uniform.

 

I very strongly dislike JJ's treatment of the Star Trek stuff, not the least of which is the 2nd movie which is a slapdash remake Kahn, trading on plot points without the benefit of earning the history. Specifically reversing Kirk/Spock's roles in the end, and then almost immediately hitting the undo button. Blech.

 

Anyway, I will bet you all 1,000 spacebucks he's recycling Luke/Han stealing the uniforms.

 

Also, while I'm ranting. The medieval sabersword: I'm really not some purist, but I think it's a distinction that implies missing a larger point. The original fights were samurai duels, given Lucas' Kurosawa inspiration. They were low on kinetic action, because the drama was in the mind. That has been slowly eroded over the years with all the CGI flippy action, so seeing this thing doesn't inspire confidence.

 

The second Star Trek movie was definitely a misstep that I suspect had a lot to do with Abram's general ambivalence to the Star Trek universe (and having Damon Lindelof as a script writer). Hopefully Abrams professed love for the Star Wars universe will make him better at balancing what fans want with what general movie goers need to enjoy watching a film.

[eot]

It's a reverse Immelman turn! god don't you know anything mington

Imagine you're tilting your head back to follow something flying over you, and can somehow fold it right over until the back of your head touches your back, then your head spins 180 degrees to put everything the right way up. Then you'd basically be doing what the camera is doing in the gif, also no one would ever love you.

 

On seeing these two side by side, I'm with Jake, the non-spinny shot is way better:

 

 

 

It expresses inertia and power. In the original shot, the camera is moving so fast and so far from the ground that the moment the ship nearly hits is barely noticeable.

I thought about it for a while, and I'm pretty sure it's not a split-S. It's just an inverted dive that's recovered halfway through. In a split-S you only roll inverted at the start, the Falcon rolls un-inverted again while in the dive.

I think the original shot is great, in that it's meant to show you what following that ship would look like if you were in another ship trying to chase it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that is in fact exactly what happens in the actual film. It'd get pretty overwhelming if swathes of the film were filmed that way, but being a trailer it seems obvious that they'd go out of their way to include such money shots.

It wouldn't look like that though. Maybe having played too many flight sims is what's making me feel that it looks wrong, but keeping your nose on the target in a turn like that is the biggest rookie mistake. The angle off tail gets out of control and you overshoot. The camera is not moving at all like a plane would in that circumstance. The distance between the camera and the Falcon increases and decreases at the complete opposite times it "actually" would.

 

(I'm not saying the movie will be bad because the camera doesn't move like a fighter jet, I'm just geeking out a little).

[Justin Leego]

orange and teal ORANGE AND TEAL

[Nachimir]

Naw. That desert landscape is no Transformers 2:
 

 

I thought about it for a while, and I'm pretty sure it's not a split-S. It's just an inverted dive that's recovered halfway through. In a split-S you only roll inverted at the start, the Falcon rolls un-inverted again while in the dive.

 

Good point, though I think some kind of turn would make more sense given the fighters then flying by head on. I thought Immelman because the clouds track vertically down the frame while the ship rotates 180. Could it be we've found another unrealistic bit in the Star Wars trailer?

[Reyturner]

I'm willing to bet that the Millennium Falcon shot is the tail end of a much longer continuous sequence that follows the ship "up" towards the planet and through atmospheric entry. In which case, the ground would already be established in the audience's mind as coming in from the top of the screen, probably making the shot a hell of a lot more readable. 

[Jake]

I've majorly come around on the spin falcon shot. Seeing them side by side made me feel the weight of the camera move a lot more, and I'm generally just not bothered by it at this point.

Also that "special edition" trailer has kind of made me come around on the whole thing, because that trailer, while a hyperbolic joke, is still a surprisingly accurate look at how far off a cliff the series aesthetic had fallen and how far back its seemingly come in one film.