Hipsters

[Gormongous]

This thread makes me hate hipsters, and non-hipsters, and everyone

 

Well, I hated everyone before this thread made it cool.

[TheLastBaron]

I skimmed through the past couple pages so I hope I didn't miss anything, I just came to ask if it's okay to like the Chris Cornell version of Billie Jean.

 

[Ben X]

It's fine as long as you don't whoop 40 seconds into it to let everyone know you recognise the song Billie Jean.

 

It's no longer cool to like it, however, as everyone here now knows about it.

[TheLastBaron]

There's also

 

He's not trying to be ironic of funny, this was part of a project he did called 1000 Years of Popular Music I've seen him a bunch of times and he's played it a couple times and when he does he usually talks about how he actually likes the song and thinks there's a level of craft to it (and other pop songs) that people don't recognize.

 

I was thinking about it and the Jimi Hendrix cover of All Along the Watchtower is basically the opposite of these acoustic covers.

[Erkki]

At first I thought this thread was dumb, then I started thinking that maybe I'm in fact a hipster, then I thought this thread is dumb again. So I also take pleasure sometimes if I manage to find something interesting that people around me don't know about yet and I think they should. But on the other hand I don't like convincing people about something so I don't necessarily want to make the thing more popular. I might just mention it a few times and leave it at that. And sometimes the thing becoming popular changes it or some aspect of it and it becomes less desirable. And sometimes I think my taste is just weird and no one else I know would like the thing I like. And sometimes I might take pleasure in a thing I like becoming popular or in starting to like an already popular thing.

 

However, I'm really confused as to how any of the above could define me or make me belong in some group of people rather than another.

[clyde]

So I typed in "Hipster" in Youtube for the first time tonight, expecting to find videos like this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_odcEP_uGI

 

But I found a bunch of stuff where young-adults are wearing interesting things while narrators insult them. 

I'm potentially the most oblivious person you have ever met. 

I had heard people use "hipster" as a pejorative when I lived in Athens, Ga a decade ago. It was usually associated with the jilted feelings that come in a college town of fashionable art-snobs. Myself being an unrepentant art-snob, I was like "Oh, I must be one of the opinionated assholes that everyone is talking about." So I figured I was a hipster. I have a history of taking names that are intended as insults and making them my own.  a bonus was that this label fit in well with my casual interest in hipsters, beats, beatniks, hippies, yippies and so on. I was like "Fuck yeah I'm a hipster." Then I moved to the Big Island for a while and eventually to a small town in Appalachia. The hipster-discussion was still happening on the periphery and I assumed that the Athens, Ga vernacular was also being used in Portland, Oregon and San Francisco, California or whatever. 

I often fantasize about being in a basement coffee-shop with jazz being played, open-mic poetry and  the general mysteriousness (and somewhat safe danger) of casual drug-use occurring behind a beaded curtain. It's an aesthetic that may have never actually existed, but that I liked fantasizing about anyway. This fantasy became conflated with the art-snob/skepticism of popularity due to the current pejorative use. I rationalized definitions assuming that everyone was using the word "hipster" in at least some reference to the 1940's version that I often fantasized about. Until this thread I had no clue that there was something that looks to be as prominent as the rave-scene in the first years of the 21st century that people were consistently referring to as "hipsters". But the discussion was interesting, so why not represent? They seem like an interesting bunch of folks. 

 

More counter-culture buzzard videos:

 

[N1njaSquirrel]

So I typed in "Hipster" in Youtube for the first time tonight, expecting to find videos like this.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_odcEP_uGI

 

You should check out the film Stormy Weather for more like that. It's also awesome to see some Jazz greats playing live. Two particular favourite scenes are:

 

Fats waller:

 

 

Cab Calloway and the Nicholas Brothers:

 

 

Oh and more Fats Waller. Gotta love some Fats:

 

[Jake]

I wanted to close this thread before it was cool.

You guys seem to be enjoying (???) it... ?

[dibs]

I wanted to close this thread before it was cool.

You guys seem to be enjoying (???) it... ?

 

Only ironically, I assure you.

[Bjorn]

Only ironically, I assure you.

 

It's the thread equivalent of PBR and trucker hats.

[Twig]

??? is right

[Zeusthecat]

I was confused about what a hipster is before everyone else.

[James]

I recently saw a silk-screen of Marilyn Monroe placed as a grand-finale at a small town art gallery. I saw popularity in that object.

But isn't that the popularity of Marilyn Monroe? That pre-existed the artwork. I won't deny that it's possible to do a piece of art that's about its own popularity (or lack thereof), but that would be very much confined to the domain of conceptual art, I think.

I am generally far more interested in originality than I am in popularity, but I am still claiming that popularity is a reasonable thing to base my taste on.

Your taste is your taste. As long as you're not making value judgements, anything's fair game. A direct reaction to popularity just seems to suggest a preoccupation with others' opinions and your place in relation to them that I guess some of us aren't too impressed by. Avoiding popular things would be one thing, but actually disliking them because of their popularity just seems like popular opinion has some kind of tainting effect, which I can't help but find smug and condescending. Perhaps that's my problem.

I would think it was funny. It would be hard for me to believe that you were sincere in that claim, but supposing that you managed to convince me, I would consider you a great resource and be in close contact so that I could find the Korean romantic-comedies that I like faster by asking you which ones you hate. There are a lot of Korean romantic-comedies that I dislike and have to search through to get to masterpieces such as Playful Kiss and My Lovely Sam-Soon.

You wouldn't be able to use me as a barometer; as I said, my hypothetical tastes would be in reaction to yours. That's the point. It's not that you've found someone who happens to have opposing tastes; it's that you've found someone who has decided that there's something about you that puts them off everything you like. If you like it, hypothetical me doesn't any more.

Other than that point, I think your response actually sums up a fair portion on people's feelings on hipsters: they question their sincerity (accusing hipsters of being more interested in proving their superior coolness than the actual value in anything they're doing), and they find them funny (generally as the target of mockery). The main thing your hypothetical response is missing is annoyance; perhaps your ego isn't fragile enough to be irked by this rejection of your whole aesthetic world-view (although your mission to reclaim the word "hipster" might suggest otherwise).

Questioning sincerity and patronizing smirking is probably unfair, but perhaps your reaction to my stupid hypothetical can at least illuminate how people would arrive at that point.

For what it's worth, while I still find basing your opinion on others' opinions in such a straightforward way quite silly, this has been an interesting discussion and has caused me to examine my own thoughts on the matter.

[clyde]

After negotiations with Capt. Hastings, I will from now on use the term "aesthetic analyzation" instead of "criticism" due to the difference in connotation.

[agorman]

This thread makes me hate hipsters, and non-hipsters, and everyone

 

I made it through like half of the first page before I lost my mind. 

[clyde]

But isn't that the popularity of Marilyn Monroe? That pre-existed the artwork. I won't deny that it's possible to do a piece of art that's about its own popularity (or lack thereof), but that would be very much confined to the domain of conceptual art, I think.

The piece I saw was an Andy Warhol piece. The way it was displayed and the reaction I had to it when finding it at the focal point of the exhibition was not so much related to Marilyn Monroe as much as it was to the popularity of Andy Warhol. The well-knowness of a well-known piece by a well-known artist was incredibly distracting to me (if the things that would not change if it was under glass were what I was supposed to be paying attention to) compared to the other art-work on display which I was able to examine much more narrowly. For instance, there was a football-sized rubber cloud suspended from the ceiling which shaded a little rubber figure whose feet dangled from the display pedestal; both had human hair mixed in with what looked like a substance that comes out of a tube sold at Home Depot. My reaction to the Andy Warhol piece by comparison was more like "15 minutes of fame, that's what the art students who see this want. To have a warehouse in New York City full of models, selling prints of their whimsical novelties and having the media beg them for sparse words." I couldn't even tell you what colors were used.

Your taste is your taste. As long as you're not making value judgements, anything's fair game.

I don't understand what the difference between having taste and making value judgements. Aren't value judgements just someone talking about their own opinion as if it was more than that?

A direct reaction to popularity just seems to suggest a preoccupation with others' opinions and your place in relation to them that I guess some of us aren't too impressed by. Avoiding popular things would be one thing, but actually disliking them because of their popularity just seems like popular opinion has some kind of tainting effect, which I can't help but find smug and condescending. Perhaps that's my problem.

I think I explained my thoughts about the tainting effect with my Andy Warhol example. I'd be interested to hear why you find it smug and condescending.

You wouldn't be able to use me as a barometer; as I said, my hypothetical tastes would be in reaction to yours. That's the point. It's not that you've found someone who happens to have opposing tastes; it's that you've found someone who has decided that there's something about you that puts them off everything you like. If you like it, hypothetical me doesn't any more.

The rules for your hypothetical situation are disappointing. I would live a barometer like that.

But, since it must be this way:

I think we are all influenced by other people's opinions. I think that all of us dislike certain things because people they don't like, like them. I am o.k. with this. I also think it's o.k. to like something because someone else does. Why not? It's fun to like things together, there is no purity lost. In fact, I think two people may be extremely surprised to find out that even when they both like or dislike the same things, it is likely for vastly different reasons (even when attempts are made to describe the reasons with words and the words are similar).

Now if you are just talking about the idea of someone whose method of insulting me is to say that they don't like the things I like, then I will just take it as it is, an insult. I wouldn't be surprised to find out later that they do indeed enjoy the character of Baek Seung-jo's mom in Playful Kiss as much as I do.

Other than that point, I think your response actually sums up a fair portion on people's feelings on hipsters: they question their sincerity (accusing hipsters of being more interested in proving their superior coolness than the actual value in anything they're doing),

I don't think there is anything superior about liking something because it's soft and purple compared to liking something because they want to look cool.

and they find them funny (generally as the target of mockery). The main thing your hypothetical response is missing is annoyance; perhaps your ego isn't fragile enough to be irked by this rejection of your whole aesthetic world-view (although your mission to reclaim the word "hipster" might suggest otherwise).

Like I said a second ago, if it was just an insult, I would just think of it as such. Now when I come across someone who does reject my whole aesthetic world-view, that is interesting. It happens. A lot. It makes me feel special. I have a unique view-point from which to create a more compassionate and capable circumstance for everyone.

Questioning sincerity and patronizing smirking is probably unfair, but perhaps your reaction to my stupid hypothetical can at least illuminate how people would arrive at that point.

It was a fantastic demonstration of the opposing view-point.

For what it's worth, while I still find basing your opinion on others' opinions in such a straightforward way quite silly, this has been an interesting discussion and has caused me to examine my own thoughts on the matter.

I'm enjoying it a lot too. A few of us are making really interesting points. I rarely enumerate the points that I find convincing (maybe I should?), but I appreciate the time and effort it takes to put your thoughts together and share them. I even find the disgust with this thread fascinating. Maybe I'm a troll, whatever. I don't think that subjects which highlight disagreements are worthless; I think they can be super good. Maybe it's easier for me to feel that way because they lack popularity.

[melmer]

i just read a humorous blog post about hipster and beards, here let me share

http://beardsy.com/archives/229

[Bjorn]

i just read a humorous blog post about hipster and beards, here let me share

http://beardsy.com/archives/229

 

Apparently hipsters are sensitive about their beards and don't appreciate criticism. 

 

Also, hipsters may have made society reach "peak beard", thus ruining beards for everyone.  I was into beards before hipsters were. 

[Thrik]

i just read a humorous blog post about hipster and beards, here let me share

http://beardsy.com/archives/229

Haha, oh man. Whether it's hipster-related or not, the tryhard beard shit that's been going around during the past few years is pretty tiresome. There is such a sickeningly shallow element to a lot of it.

[Berzee]

a humorous blog post about hipster and beards

 

I was distracted from any potential humor, as I always am in such cases, by the author's throwing down the gauntlet of Transportation Maintenance And Repair as a definitive and unanswerable challenge in the first paragraph. =\

[miffy495]

I grew a beard when I realized I was the youngest person at my work by about 10 years, unless you count our students. It makes me look like I belong with the grown ups instead of the kids, so I keep it and try to make it look as nice as possible.

 

As for the content of the thread, I feel like we've reached our point of "I believe this, you believe that, we have all amicably explained our positions and understand each other, though maybe not agree" and will probably make a graceful exit. I am puzzled however by the temptation from mods to shut it down, as it has all been a friendly discussion. This is the one time I've ever seen a thread get threatened with closing without it having turned personal, and that strikes me as odd. Everyone here has kept a level head and been respectful, so I'm wondering if it's just the subject matter, or what? Usually when a thread gets closed, it has turned nasty and frankly gone on way too long as such. Maybe it was nasty in earlier pages and I just came in after that was resolved?

[Chris]

Well obviously we were joking. It's not a matter of it being nasty, it's a matter of how borderline-insufferable it has been.

[clyde]

I wanted to make a thread titled "Social Justice Warriors" this morning to discuss the NPR story about the heroin/meth colony in Herat; this Capital in the 21st Century book; and the Frontline documentary that came out last night titled "Prison State", but I decided that I didn't want to push my perceived limits.

[clyde]

I'm reading Notes on "Camp" during which Susan Sontag suggests that appreciation of Camp is how dandies survive in mass-culture.

http://faculty.georgetown.edu/irvinem/theory/Sontag-NotesOnCamp-1964.html

45. Detachment is the prerogative of an elite; and as the dandy is the 19th century's surrogate for the aristocrat in matters of culture, so Camp is the modern dandyism. Camp is the answer to the problem: how to be a dandy in the age of mass culture.

46. The dandy was overbred. His posture was disdain, or else ennui. He sought rare sensations, undefiled by mass appreciation. (Models: Des Esseintes in Huysmans' À Rebours, Marius the Epicurean, Valéry's Monsieur Teste.) He was dedicated to "good taste."

I had never heard of dandyism before, but after reading the Wikipedia article, I think they are what many of us have been referring to as "hipsters".

This is great. Now hipsters can like jazz and dandies can continue to be snobbish about their hobbies and interests.

For the record, I think I'm a dandy hipster.

[Nachimir]

Somewhat relatedly, I've been enjoying this:

http://daleberan.tumblr.com/post/83002114449/a-tale-of-two-hipsters

 

I've hated the word hipster, or at least the way people use it, for a long time because it has such an amorphous meaning, usually used to define someone as "other" on trivial grounds. Unlike classist terms like "chav" (I guess the closest US equivalent would be "trailer trash"), hipster isn't tied to anything so concrete anymore, and I think he goes convincingly into the reasons for that: It's one word used to mean two very different types of people who look very similar and go to the same places.

 

One type wears thrift store clothes, rides cheap bikes and genuinely doesn't care what anyone else is wearing. The other wears $600 items of clothing designed to carefully mimic thrift store aesthetics, rides custom built $10,000 bikes, and cares very deeply about what they and everyone else are wearing. In turn, that elicits the "before it was cool" stuff, and both types are very intertwined with gentrification. It's such a weird dance.