The end-of-the-generation retrospective megathread.

[Sno]

Okay, alright, i want to contribute to this line of conversation. I'm going to do this across a few posts and by platform, and i'm going to start with the Wii because it'll be the easiest to do, having had relatively fewer notable games. So yeah, some Wii games i think more people should play:

Xenoblade - Vocal demand for its localization resulting in that limited years-late release has really turned it into one of those games that mostly everybody knows of, but relatively few people have actually played, and it's very unfortunate. Some players will undoubtedly scoff at its wholly expected JRPG story-telling, but it is nevertheless a beautiful, immense, and progressive JRPG that i think is an invigorating exploration of its sometimes tired and struggling genre. So to be absolutely clear, I think it's one of the best RPG's i've ever played. If not for the existence of Super Mario Galaxy, i would call this the Wii's best game.

Sin & Punishment 2 - I think Sin & Punishment 2 might be one of the storied developer's best games, it certainly encapsulates much of what works so well about Treasure's best work. It takes the fundamental framework of a well worn genre and treats it playfully, experimenting constantly with different ideas about how it might try to use its core set of systems. At times an on-rails shooter, at times a side-scroller, all while always dancing back and forth between melee-focused character action and ranged shoot em` up combat. It's always challenging, it's always exciting, and it's always doing something interesting. (Just don't try to make sense of the story.)

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories - It troubles me that this seems to be regarded as a one-off experiment for the Silent Hill franchise, as i think it's absolutely the direction the series needed to go in. It completely guts the things that don't work about Silent Hill, namely the combat and the overwrought mythology, and focuses on psychological horror and exploration. It, however, doesn't work completely, because it impedes the effectiveness of its own atmosphere by having threats appear only at scripted and broadly telegraphed intervals. Additionally, the way it throws you into new environments every time its monsters appear also frequently leaves you running around in circles, trying to quickly learn the layout while kiting around whichever monster wants to eat your face. So it's somewhat flawed, but it's still a consistently engaging and thoughtful experience that i would liked to have seen more of.

Endless Ocean - You're a diver. That's it. That's the game. Go catalogue some fish, swim through some ancient ruins, explore. As a rare Wii game with online play, you can invite a friend along for the journey too. It's a very peaceful, pleasant thing. I'd like to see it get a sequel on the Wii U, it would probably really benefit from the more powerful hardware. (It actually did get a sequel on the Wii, but that introduced some weird narrative elements that i think get in the way of its own strengths a bit.)

[Roderick]

ODST is most notable for the amazing Thumbs podcast it inspired, with Chris' noir jazz interludes.

[JonCole]

I found Alpha Protocol to be a pretty deeply flawed game, but i'm happy that its cleverest idea - its conversation system - has bled out into many other titles. (Notably, the newer Telltale games.)

ODST is, however, i think the best Halo campaign Bungie's ever done. I like Halo 3 more overall for its mechanics and its multiplayer, but ODST's atmospheric presentation and open-ended environments are just absolutely marvelous. The fact that it's also such a stand-alone story makes it an easy recommendation even for non-fans.

Going by your picks, i guess you're not expecting people to dig deep for obscure oddities, so how about we reframe this as simply picking a few games from the whole of the last cycle that you feel like you particularly need to champion?

...

I think i need to ponder this one a bit.

 

I think people don't like ODST because 1) you're not playing as Master Chief and 2) it's only notable multiplayer feature, Firefight, was vastly improved by way of implementing matchmaking in Reach. My perception is that people want that big, bombastic "I'm gonna hijack this Covenant ship and crash it into this other Covenant ship then spacejump onto Earth and kill a Gold Elite with my BARE HANDS" and ODST didn't really deliver on that.

 

All of that being said, I agree with you and that's why I like ODST. Had just slightly more nuance than the rest of the games, and benefited greatly as a result.

 

Okay, alright, i want to contribute to this line of conversation. I'm going to do this across a few posts and by platform, and i'm going to start with the Wii because it'll be the easiest to do, having had relatively fewer notable games. So yeah, some Wii games i think more people should play:

Endless Ocean - You're a diver. That's it. That's the game. Go catalogue some fish, swim through some ancient ruins, explore. As a rare Wii game with online play, you can invite a friend along for the journey too. It's a very peaceful, pleasant thing. I'd like to see it get a sequel on the Wii U, it would probably really benefit from the more powerful hardware. (It actually did get a sequel on the Wii, but that introduced some weird narrative elements that i think get in the way of its own strengths a bit.)

 

I had all the other games you listed on my backlog, except this one. Sounds really cool, I'll probably give it a gander.

[SecretAsianMan]

ODST is also my favorite Halo.  Those sections as the Rookie are a really nice contrast to the rest of the series.  I especially love the subtleties of how the city's AI helps you out.  I also really like Firefly so the voice acting made me happy.  Plus, smokey sax.

 

Resistance 2 wasn't a very good game by itself, but I absolutely loved the 8 player co-op mode.  It was easily the best part of the game and it drove me nuts that they didn't bring it back for the third game.  It's a weird one off thing that I'm glad I got to enjoy while I could.

[Professor Video Games]

I actually liked Halo Reach the most. I remember really liking the level design in that one. I think the fact that I played through ODST (odious tea) in coop mode really hurt the atmosphere which seems to be one of its strongest aspects.

 

One of my favorite smaller games that came out on XBLA was N+. Basically a predecessor to Super Meat Boy, it hooked me like SMB never did for some reason. Just navigate trap filled single screen rooms and get to the exit. I really liked the basic visuals and the controls/movement were very responsive (which they have to be in these sorts of games). I can feel my blood pressure rising just from thinking about that game, but I loved it.

[Erkki]

This last generation saw a remake/reimagining/sequel to one of my all time favorite NES games, but got little to no recognition at all: "A Boy and His Blob" for the Wii.

It was such a fun little puzzle-platformer thing with a style I liked and based on one of my favorite NES games. I really, really wish it had done better.

Actually, apparently, score-wise it did really well, but I cant find any sales numbers, so I don't know if it actually did poorly. It's just that no one I know ever bought it or even heard of it, so it feels to me like it failed...

I tried to buy this so many times, just couldn't find it.

 

PS why change the topic in the middle of the thread? Just start a new thread for this...

[JonCole]

I tried to buy this so many times, just couldn't find it.

 

PS why change the topic in the middle of the thread? Just start a new thread for this...

 

I figured it was called a retrospective megathread for a reason. Overlooked games of the generation seems like a relevant topic.

[SecretAsianMan]

I figured it was called a retrospective megathread for a reason. Overlooked games of the generation seems like a relevant topic.

 

Yeah, I think anything relating to the last gen is pertinent.  Games, hardware, trends, whatever.

[Nachimir]

Kinda divergent as it's handheld, but from the right time: Lost Magic was a massively overlooked DS game, which had a fairly coherent and small language of pictograms drawn using the lower screen. By the end of the game I was able to guess at new spells, because it taught me a system rather than just unlocking things or giving me an inventory.

 

I think controllers are one of the most interesting aspects of the last console gen: Because, early on, most indie developers were pinning their hopes on XBLA, the 360 pad became a default controller for a lot of games. That hope is largely gone, but that standard sticks around (360 pads are the thing developers request from me more than anything else at events). Mostly it's been because the other options are utterly terrible, but I'm not sure the Dual Shock 4 working in Windows will be enough to depose that and suspect the standard will stick.

[SecretAsianMan]

I think controllers are one of the most interesting aspects of the last console gen: Because, early on, most indie developers were pinning their hopes on XBLA, the 360 pad became a default controller for a lot of games. That hope is largely gone, but that standard sticks around (360 pads are the thing developers request from me more than anything else at events). Mostly it's been because the other options are utterly terrible, but I'm not sure the Dual Shock 4 working in Windows will be enough to depose that and suspect the standard will stick.

 

I am still disappointed with most controllers.  I hate having almost all the buttons on the face where I only have 2 thumbs while my fingers remain idle.  I think the Steam controller looks interesting but I still want more.

[feelthedarkness]

I agree with Jon about Alpha Protocol. I didn't have any mechanical issues with it, save the one fight in the club, where my nonlethal build was poorly suited. Really great game. My favorite stuff is often pretty flawed, because it gets specifics right.

 

Mask of the Betrayer - Neverwinter Nights 2's first expansion. My favorite D&D game is Planescape, and MotB is a really worthy spiritual sequel. Mostly existential stuff.  One thing I think it does particularly well is that it has some pretty granular conversation options, where you can lie to somebody but it will provide sub-options, like lie to protect their feelings, or lie as a misdirect. 

[Zeusthecat]

Lost Odyssey - I really liked this game even though it wasn't generally well regarded. It had great music and a very mediocre story but the way immortals and non-immortals leveled up and gained skills is what really kept me engaged for 80+ hours. Plus I thought Kaim was a pretty cool character. I also feel like the dream segments had some of the best storytelling I've seen in a game. Also, I still really like JRPGs so I am probably a little biased.

[melmer]

I gave up on disc two, random fight encounters are the worst I did enjoy what I played of it though, and the dream sequences were really compelling

Earth defence force 2017! Such fun

When I think back its the only thing that stands out

[Dewar]

Lost Odyssey - I really liked this game even though it wasn't generally well regarded. It had great music and a very mediocre story but the way immortals and non-immortals leveled up and gained skills is what really kept me engaged for 80+ hours. Plus I thought Kaim was a pretty cool character. I also feel like the dream segments had some of the best storytelling I've seen in a game. Also, I still really like JRPGs so I am probably a little biased.

 

I really liked the story idea of an imortal that sees everyone else dying around him all the time. Some of the story book things (it's been a while since I played) were really moving.

 

For better or for worse, every random encounter in that game could kill you. While I liked that it first, it made it a heck of a lot of effort to play and I stalled out near the end of disk 1. 

[Roderick]

The Lost Odyssey soundtrack is BEYOND EXCELLENT. I regularly listen to it and have it in my car. I never made it past disc 2 either, it was so incredibly long. But I am committed to finishing it at some point! It's a superb game with all the little stories in it, with a dream-like atmosphere.

[Zeusthecat]

If you guys haven't already I recommend reading all of the Thousand Years of Dreams stories. The stories themselves are beautifully written and they genuinely affected me emotionally. And if you read them make sure to pull up a video of the sequences rather than just reading the text by itself because the music and visuals that go along with them add a lot.

 

Edit: thanks for the link Mington

[melmer]

Boom

[miffy495]

This last generation saw a remake/reimagining/sequel to one of my all time favorite NES games, but got little to no recognition at all: "A Boy and His Blob" for the Wii.

It was such a fun little puzzle-platformer thing with a style I liked and based on one of my favorite NES games. I really, really wish it had done better.

Actually, apparently, score-wise it did really well, but I cant find any sales numbers, so I don't know if it actually did poorly. It's just that no one I know ever bought it or even heard of it, so it feels to me like it failed...

 

Have it. Love it.

 

If we're talking overlooked potential best games of the generation, I'd throw my vote in with Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. So fucking good for so many reasons.

[Sno]

Nuts & Bolts is easily one of the top five best exclusives on the 360. Love the bitterly self-critical humor and the insane, nested possibilities its toolbox provides.
 

I figured it was called a retrospective megathread for a reason. Overlooked games of the generation seems like a relevant topic.

It would be pretty silly to have a retrospective thread about the last decade in gaming and then end up dancing around actually talking about games.
 

 

Kinda divergent as it's handheld, but from the right time: Lost Magic was a massively overlooked DS game, which had a fairly coherent and small language of pictograms drawn using the lower screen. By the end of the game I was able to guess at new spells, because it taught me a system rather than just unlocking things or giving me an inventory.

 

I think the DS and PSP are both absolutely relevant to this topic, and Lost Magic was a wonderful game, one of the early DS games that made me feel optimistic about owning that system. Also, it was among the first games on the DS with online play. (If not actually the very first, which it may well have been.)

It actually made for a fun little competitive game.

[Twig]

Nuts & Bolts is literally the only game that makes me regret selling my 360.

[juv3nal]

If we're talking overlooked potential best games of the generation, I'd throw my vote in with Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. So fucking good for so many reasons.

 

Main reason for me is it excels in making you feel like you're clever (in many ways, it is a puzzle game):

- There were instances where you could feel like you were sequence breaking (but probably weren't in any "unanticipated by the designers" sense) by making some improbably shaped vehicle and jumping off the back of it to reach a ledge or something to access an extra part or two earlier than you "should" be able to. It was even possible to levitate your vehicle by using your magic wrench thingy while you were standing on (but not driving) it.

- Also so many event/race things where when you first encounter it, you're like "how the hell do I do that" only to eventually come up with a design that makes it so easy it feels like you've gotten away with something.

[Roderick]

I had not idea Nuts and Bolts was so highly lauded! This is genuinely the first time I hear such praise for it, so vocally. Damn.

[Sno]

I had not idea Nuts and Bolts was so highly lauded! This is genuinely the first time I hear such praise for it, so vocally. Damn.

Have you played it? You should play it, it's really, really great.

I think, at the time of its release, opinion around the game was really poisoned by a lot of the knee jerk reactions people had towards it. (I suppose it's understandable, reviving a series in a completely different shape than what is expected is always fraught with danger. Personally, i came at Nuts & Bolts having no particular feelings of attachment  to the prior Banjo Kazooie games and didn't really care that it wasn't a slightly crappy 3D platformer.)

 

Okay, okay. PSP. I'm guessing there's probably not a lot of PSP fans here, and not without justification, it's kind of a shitty handheld. The battery life is terrible, the sleep mode is buggy and never really worked right, the control never felt quite right on any of the hardware revisions; revisions that all introduced their own weird problems with the screen, and all the silliness with sticking a mechanical disc drive in a handheld where power is at a premium. (Nevermind the atrocious load times that came with it.)

So yeah... Hey though, put aside all of that, because the PSP somehow still ended up having this massive, excellent library of games. (Sticking with the theme though, i'll go to some of the bigger ones that i think people might not immediately consider, because i'm pretty sure everybody with a passing interest in the PSP has played Lumines.)

Loco Roco & Loco Roco 2: Just go

, it really speaks for itself.

Killzone: Liberation: I have not played any of the other Killzone games, but Liberation struck a chord with me. The way it pulls all of the mechanics of a more fully realized shooter into an isometric action game on a platform that doesn't seem like it has enough sticks or buttons to do what this game aims to do. Liberation pulls it off though, albeit with a slightly awkward control scheme. You've got some light squad command mechanics and combat with a functional emphasis on cover, strafing and evasion. It actually reminds me a fair bit of Origin's Crusader games, which is about the highest praise i can give it. (It also had a huge free add-on, but it happened pre-PSN, so i don't know if it's still available.)

Metal Gear Ac!d & Metal Gear Ac!d 2: The Metal Gear Ac!d games are insane. They deliver the stealth-based tactical action you would expect from Metal Gear, but with two big differences: It's turn-based and your actions are powered by a customized deck of cards that you build over the course of the game. You might draw a card that lets you equip a rifle to an empty inventory slot, and then use another rifle card with a corresponding ammo type to let you fire that equipped rifle. That's really just where it starts, with many more specialized cards themed around things reaching deep into Hideo Kojima's history as a developer, and it really results in what i think are two of the coolest turn-based tactics games i've ever played.

[JonCole]

God, +1 on the Metal Gear Acid series. To be honest, all of my taste for that franchise in recent years have come almost exclusively from the nostalgia of playing those games.

 

And it's really interesting to see the love for Banjo in here... I know the Giant Bomb guys have been in love with it for a long time (that and Viva Pinata, which I suppose probably also falls into this category) but I wouldn't have guessed that love would be here too. I just feel that I never got over that hump from the more tutorial, linear sections to where I could appreciate the creative and more open aspects of the game. I should give it a second chance.

[Roderick]

At this point it's safe to say Idle Thumbs and Giant Bomb and their respective communities are parallel universe versions of each other that exist in the same timeline by fluke.