Gwardinen Posted April 10, 2015 So I started watching TNG based on SecretAsianMan's recommendations (although the TNG ones are a bit more scattered through the thread than the others, so I'm not 100% certain I'm doing it right). I've seen bits and pieces of the series before, so hopefully jumping from good episode to good episode won't leave me too confused. First up was the Measure of a Man. I don't think I'd ever seen the episode before, though obviously echoes of "is Data sentient?" come up a number of times during the show. Patrick Stewart pontificating about rights and consciousness and the future is always a fun time, so this is a good start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 10, 2015 TNG doesn't have a running plot like later Star Trek series do so you'll mostly be ok. The one thing that will probably be the least clear if you only stick to my list will be the character of Tasha Yar. If you don't want to go back and watch some of the early episodes to get a feel for the character (which I wouldn't really recommend you do anyway because they're terrible), I'll give you a brief summary of her. Tasha Yar was the ship's chief of security before Worf. She's normally a very serious character, although in one episode the crew basically gets drunk on some chemical and she has "relations" with Data (hence the hologram of her in Measure of a Man). In the season 1 episode Skin of Evil, the character is killed by what is essentially a living pool of black tar. Her death was unprovoked and entirely meaningless. It's pretty much a show of power. If you want to see an incredibly, hilariously cheesy and lame episode, that one's probably the best/worst. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwardinen Posted April 10, 2015 I had a general idea of Tasha Yar, and I think I've even seen Skin of Evil, or at least some of it. I definitely didn't see the episode in which she and Data get jiggy, though, and this coming up in the courtroom was kind of a surprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spenny Posted April 10, 2015 I think that episode is the second episode. They set up all the sexual tensions early! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwardinen Posted April 10, 2015 By the by, I'm currently proxying into US Netflix to watch the show (for some reason UK Netflix has Star Trek films but not series), but wasn't there some big rerelease with higher quality sometime recently? Does anyone know whether it's actually significantly better? There's a lot of blurring and that strange line scan effect in this version. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwardinen Posted April 10, 2015 Apologies for breaking internetiquette by double posting, but I just watched Yesterday's Enterprise and boy howdy, it makes me feel all kinds of sentimental. It definitely feels like there was some metanarrative going on there - wasn't the story that the fanbase was kind of angry about how Tasha Yar died? This new, more meaningful death seems like it might have been an attempt by the showrunners to atone for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natellite Posted April 10, 2015 By the by, I'm currently proxying into US Netflix to watch the show (for some reason UK Netflix has Star Trek films but not series), but wasn't there some big rerelease with higher quality sometime recently? Does anyone know whether it's actually significantly better? There's a lot of blurring and that strange line scan effect in this version. Yeah, they just finished that a few months ago - it's a remastered Bluray release from the original flim negatives. I haven't seen them, but anecdotally, I've heard they're great. Google is inconclusive, but I thiiiiiiink the remastered released can be streamed off Amazon Prime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor Video Games Posted April 10, 2015 Yeah the Amazon Prime ones are HD transfers and definitely better than what's on Netflix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted April 10, 2015 There's a lot of Star Trek fan work out there right now, did Paramount throw out some sort of open license on it all, or are all these Kickstarter projects just running under the radar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwardinen Posted April 13, 2015 I'm having much more difficulty finding good lists of top the Next Generation episodes online than I had expected. There's a distinct lack of consensus about anything more than the top 5. Even once you get to top 10 the opinions wildly diverge, so I'm finding it hard to expand SecretAsianMan's list for my own viewing purposes without just watching half of every season on the off chance it might be good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 13, 2015 Crap, I meant to expand that list last weekend and I totally forgot. I'll try to remember it tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dium Posted April 13, 2015 I'm having much more difficulty finding good lists of top the Next Generation episodes online than I had expected. There's a distinct lack of consensus about anything more than the top 5. Even once you get to top 10 the opinions wildly diverge, so I'm finding it hard to expand SecretAsianMan's list for my own viewing purposes without just watching half of every season on the off chance it might be good. I've also found this to be the case. It's really strange, actually, how TNG seems so well regarded as a whole, but then the consensus also seems to be that only ~50% of it isn't embarrassing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feelthedarkness Posted April 13, 2015 I've gone too far off the deep end to be rational about it, but I think basically all the James Cawley, Phase 2/Continuing Voyages episodes are worth watching, if only because they exist. They whole thing is amazing. He's a professional Elvis impersonator that made such a good OG Star Trek bridge that Paramount had to borrow it for the real flashback shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 13, 2015 I've also found this to be the case. It's really strange, actually, how TNG seems so well regarded as a whole, but then the consensus also seems to be that only ~50% of it isn't embarrassing. Star Trek in general hits the highs and lows of sci-fi a lot. When it's great, it's really really great. When it's terrible, it's some of the most cringe inducing television ever made. As a whole though, I think the good outweighs the bad, in quality if not quantity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 14, 2015 Ok, this is my full list of TNG Episodes. Includes short blurbs in case this gets used again in the future. YMMV. Bold episodes were not included in my list from earlier in this thread Season 1 Uh, none really Season 2The Measure of a Man - 2x09 - Great courtroom episode about Data's rights as an artificial but sentient beingSeason 3Who Watches the Watchers - 3x04 - A primitive civilization think Picard is God. I mostly just get a kick out of them saying "The Picard" over and over Booby Trap - 3x06 - A Geordi heavy episode as he tries to devise a way to free the Enterprise from a 1,000 year old booby trap The Enemy - 3x07 - Geordi gets trapped on a dangerous planet and must rely on an enemy to escape. Also a good Worf scene. Deja Q - 3x13 - Q gets turned into a human as punishment for his behavior Yesterday's Enterprise - 3x15 - An neat sort of what if? episode mostly set in an alternate timeline Sins of the Father - 3x17 - Worf's father is accused of treason by the Klingon homeworld (Qo'nos). Worf goes to Qo'nos to discover the truth.Sarek - 3x23 - Spock's father aboard the Enterprise. Really great Picard scene towards the end. Menage a Troi - 3x24 - Most of the episode is terrible, but The Best of Both Worlds - 3x26 - WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.Season 4The Best of Both Worlds, Part II - 4x01 - Part 2. Duh.Family - 4x02 - I'm actually not a huge fan of this episode but it's pretty well liked I guess. Picard deals with the trauma of what the Borg did to him.Data's Day - 4x11 - A day in the life of Data. Pretty light hearted episode Devil's Due - 4x13 - Picard takes the devil to court over the custody of a planet Clues - 4x14 - A neat little space mystery The Nth Degree - 4x19 - Barclay becomes a super geniusThe Drumhead - 4x21 - A future witch hunt for spies within the Federation Half a Life - 4x22 - An episode about euthanasia. Also the only episode with Troi's mom that I can stand The Mind's Eye - 4x24 - Geordi is brainwashed into being an assassin In Theory - 4x25 - Data gets a girlfriendRedemption - 4x26 - Civil war in the Klingon EmpireSeason 5Redemption, Part II - 5x01 - More Klingon civil warDarmok - 5x02 - Picard must learn to communicate with an alien species that has a very unusual speech pattern. Way more interesting than it sounds. Disaster - 5x05 - The Enterprise hits an anomaly in space and the bridge crew are all stranded in different parts of the shipUnification I, II - 5x07, 5x08 - Picard and Data investigate the disappearance of Ambassador Spock (yes, that Spock) Conundrum - 5x14 - The Enterprise crew all wake up with amnesia and find themselves in the middle of a warCause and Effect - 5x18 - The Enterprise is stuck in a timeloop The First Duty - 5x19 - Wesley Crusher gets in trouble at school I Borg - 5x23 - The crew recover a single, damaged Borg The Next Phase - 5x24 - Geordi and Ro become ghosts. Or do they? Some good old sci-fi shenanigansThe Inner Light - 5x25 - Picard finds himself living as a different person on a different planet. My personal favorite episode of the entire series. I can't watch the ending without tearing up a little.Season 6Relics - 6x04 - Montgomery Scott (aka Scotty) is found after 80 years of transporter stasis Rascals - 6x07 - 4 memebers of the crew are turned into children and the ship gets taken over by the Ferengi. Mostly comedic episodeChain of Command Part I, II - 6x10, 6x11 - Picard is forced to hand off command of the Enterprise. Picard, Worf, and Crusher then go on a secret mission.Face of the Enemy - 6x14 - Troi is kidnapped and cosmetically altered to look like a Romulan Starship Mine - 6x18 - Picard is trapped aboard the Enterprise with several mercenaries Second Chances - 6x24 - Riker finds that a transporter accident 8 years ago has produced a duplicate of him that has led a very different life Timescape - 6x25 - The Enterprise appears to be frozen in time during a battle with RomulansSeason 7Gambit I, II - 7x04, 7x05 - Space Pirates. The ending is incredibly stupid. Attached - 7x08 - Picard and Crusher are abducted and have their minds linked Inheritance - 7x10 - Data meets his "mother" Parallels - 7x11 - Worf keeps shifting through parallel universes Lower Decks - 7x15 - An unusual episode that follows some junior officers aboard the Enterprise Genesis - 7x19 - The crew (except Picard and Data) get infected with a disease that deevolves themAll Good Things... - 7x25/7x26 - Series finale First Contact - second TNG movie - The only TNG movie I'd say is any good. The Borg return and try to prevent the creation of the Federation by going back in time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tberton Posted April 14, 2015 The only episodes I can think to add to that list are the two Moriarty episodes, "Elementary, Dear Data" in Season 2 and "Ship in a Bottle" in Season 6. The latter's the better episode, but both are fun. I may just have a soft spot for them though. Oh, "Thine Own Self" in Season 7 is also neat, although Data's my favourite character, so any episode that focuses on him appeals to me. Another Data-centric episode I like is "The Offspring," where he creates a daughter for himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted April 14, 2015 The only episodes I can think to add to that list are the two Moriarty episodes, "Elementary, Dear Data" in Season 2 and "Ship in a Bottle" in Season 6. The latter's the better episode, but both are fun. I may just have a soft spot for them though. Oh, "Thine Own Self" in Season 7 is also neat, although Data's my favourite character, so any episode that focuses on him appeals to me. Another Data-centric episode I like is "The Offspring," where he creates a daughter for himself. I remember liking all those episodes as well. And I'd vote for Time's Arrow (5x26, 5x27), because it has Data and Guinan hanging out with Mark Twain, and that is pretty badass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwardinen Posted April 14, 2015 Thanks guys, especially SAM. I'm moving tomorrow and am only going to have patchy internet for the next week so I'm going to try to find some copies of the new Blurays to give me something to do. Also I'm definitely not going to watch Menage a Troi but I really did enjoy that YouTube clip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 14, 2015 The only episodes I can think to add to that list are the two Moriarty episodes, "Elementary, Dear Data" in Season 2 and "Ship in a Bottle" in Season 6. The latter's the better episode, but both are fun. I may just have a soft spot for them though. Oh, "Thine Own Self" in Season 7 is also neat, although Data's my favourite character, so any episode that focuses on him appeals to me. Another Data-centric episode I like is "The Offspring," where he creates a daughter for himself. The only reason I left off Ship in a Bottle is because I didn't include Elementary, Dear Data. I didn't really like Elementary although Ship is pretty clever in a few places. You need to watch them both though, neither can really stand up on their own. Data is probably my favorite character as well. Thine Own Self has some good moments in it, such as his medieval science. I didn't really care for The Offspring. While the idea is interesting, I didn't really like Lal all that much. I do like the scene where he approaches Riker and asks him what his intentions toward his daughter are. I remember liking all those episodes as well. And I'd vote for Time's Arrow (5x26, 5x27), because it has Data and Guinan hanging out with Mark Twain, and that is pretty badass. I found Time's Arrow to be a little too goofy for my taste. Although I admit I do like the very subtle link it creates with the episode Booby Trap. When Geordi is talking to Guinan about women, he asks her what she's attracted to in a man. She says baldness because "A bald man was kind to me once, when I was hurting". One way to interpret this is that Picard is the bald man who helped her out in the past. Also I'm definitely not going to watch Menage a Troi but I really did enjoy that YouTube clip. That clip is one of my favorite Star Trek moments. Its such a bummer the rest of the episode is garbage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted April 14, 2015 I think it would be worth it to see all the Q episodes, especially the pilot, as the good ones aren't quite as good without all the context, and the finale relies heavily on information from the pilot. Also, some of the plots carry over to later series as well as introducing some reoccurring enemies. Bolded for the ones not on SAM's list."Encounter at Farpoint" 1x01 and 1x02"Hide and Q" 1x10"Q Who?" 2x16"Déjà Q" 3x13"Qpid" 4x20"True Q" 6x06"Tapestry" 6x15"All Good Things..." 7x25 and 7x26 If that list is somewhat daunting, you could skip Hide and Q, Qpid, and True Q, especially if you're not interested in the Voyager and DS9 tie-ins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 14, 2015 The Q episodes are worth talking about. Tapestry technically has Q in it, but I wouldn't call it a Q story. It's really about Picard, Q is just a plot device. Q Who is admittedly very important to the series for introducing a major foe, but I just don't think it's that good of an episode otherwise. Qpid I just can't stand. It's another episode where the cheesiness overwhelms everything to me. DS9 only has 1 Q episode I think, while Voyager has a couple. I personally like the Voyager ones the most. There's also a bunch of episodes that feature a recurring side character, Reginald Barclay. I have a few of them in my list but most I left out because I think they're dumb or Reg isn't a prominent character. He also crosses over with Voyager. I think he might have been in DS9 once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted April 14, 2015 While Tapestry isn't a Q story, it does setup some character stuff for him that makes the finale make a bit more sense. I like Tapestry as an episode on its own though, so I'd recommend it anyway. Hide and Q and Qpid are pretty campy and silly, but Deja Q doesn't make quite as much sense without them, and I've always found them fun. In the end, I really like the idea that they were running with to sell additional DVDs before the new remasters came out of having a "Q set" and a "Borg set" etc. Those DVD sets were especially awesome because they crossed series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted April 14, 2015 I didn't mean to suggest that Tapestry was bad, just wanted to clarify that it's essentially not a Q episode so as not to mislead anyone. I like the recurring plot elements as well. It helps to tie things together while still allowing for individual episodes. It does make lists like this harder though. I don't want to suggest what I think aren't good episodes to someone, but at the same time if you didn't see some of the early ones the later ones don't make sense. So more than once I just ended up leaving out the entire plot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted April 14, 2015 I probably have a higher level of tolerance for the "cheese" factor in TNG because of when I started watching it. I didn't start watching it until it had been on a season or two, so I was probably 11 or 12, that perfect age to watch/read a lot of cheesy crap and love it anyways. Like, the very first episode I ever saw of TNG was The Royale, which in hindsight is probably not a very good episode, but I have incredible fondness for it because it was my introduction to all the characters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dibs Posted April 14, 2015 Anyone watching Orange is the New Black and just imagining it is an extended holodeck episode of Voyager? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites