A Dedicated Thread For Talking About Star Trek Episodes

[SecretAsianMan]

There's no direct followup to Janeway's action in Equinox.  There's not really even any indirect followup, really it's a (very) slight culmination to the disagreements she and Chakotay have starting back when they first made a deal with the Borg.  Chakotay does disobey her and break the alliance, but he was technically in command of the ship while Janeway was disabled.  In Equinox he straight up defies her right in front of her face.

[Ben X]

It's been a while since I saw Enterprise, but I can give the whole 20 highlight episodes a shot later tonight.

 

How did this go, Jon?

 

I'm on the antepenultimate episode of Voyager and have generally really enjoyed the (bolded episodes of the) series. I just finished Author, Author, which went back to the alt-crew holo-sim well, but was still entertaining. It also was indeed very reminiscent of the Data trial. The epilogue was surprising, though - the Federation is using EMHs to lug rocks?! A bizarre revelation to chuck in at the end of the episode, unless it's been mentioned previously and I missed it.

[SecretAsianMan]

The epilogue was surprising, though - the Federation is using EMHs to lug rocks?! A bizarre revelation to chuck in at the end of the episode, unless it's been mentioned previously and I missed it.

 

It's from the season 6 episode Life Line, which apparently I forgot to bold.  It's mostly a Doctor episode, but it has Barclay and Counselor Troi in it as well.  I'll hide the explanation in a spoiler in case you want to go back and watch it

 

The episode is about the Doctor, who transmits himself back to the Alpha Quadrant to perform a Borg inspired medical treatment on a dying Lewis Zimmerman, the man who created the EMH program and is the closest thing the Doctor has to a father.  Zimmerman (also played by Robert Picardo) treats the Doctor with hostility because he thinks it's obsolete.  But the true source of the hostility is revealed to be because Starfleet felt the EMH Mark I was a failure and instead of taking them offline, they were all reassigned to menial labor.  Zimmerman is ashamed that there are a bunch of holograms out there scrubbing waste, all with his face.  He tried to fix the EMH, but he never used his own face as a template again (hence Andy Dick as the EMH Mark II in Message in a Bottle).

[Dewar]

Just watched the end of DS9.

 

As someone who has barely been watching it, that seemed like some pretty goofy, cheesy shit! First the Republic Serial stuff with Sisko and the prophet god dude, then all those badly-put-together flashback sequences! Also, that final shot tracking away from the window seemed really off-scale. But really, as I say, it didn't mean much to me as I haven't been invested in this series. How do they DS9 fans here feel about it?

 

EDIT: Just watched the cold open for the Voyager episode "Relativity", and it's a very similar set-up to LOST's

opening of Season 5

 

The end of DS9 is a lot about the context and I can see from what you've written that you're not aware of at least some of it. I enjoyed the end to the Kai's story, as well as most of the Dukat vs Sisko stuff. Despite the religion stuff not really drawing me in, it's a good culmination of Sisko and Dukat's seperate (but somewhat similar) path from skeptic to crazy zealot. Pretty much the only thing I wasn't a fan of was Odo's epilogue.

[SecretAsianMan]

I thought that Dukat and Sisco's final confrontation was too comic booky.  I mostly blame this on the whole Pah-Wraith concept which I thought was dumb from the start.  On the other hand I liked how Odo's story ended, although I don't get why

he has to stay with the Founders and leave Kira.  He seemed to have cured the female Founder with one contact.  Why can't he do the same with the Link and then go back to Kira?

[Ben X]

I read the spoiler as I don't feel like going back now I've finished the series. I had heard reference to Life Line in subsequent eps (including

the Doctor's friendship with Reg

which I thought was a lovely idea). Man, that thing about EMHs is a real gut-punch, just from your description of it.

 

The series finale was rather unsatisfying. It felt very similar to that one where

Chekotay and Harry find Voyager

on the ice planet, plus there never felt like any peril except from

crazier-than-usual, genocidal future Janeway until she does what she should remember is always the best thing to do: stop fucking about for half an episode and just tell Janeway the truth

. It certainly had high production value, though, and I liked the

future

stuff. I need to check Memory Alpha to find out how come the

Borg Queen is alive (plus I'm wondering how with that massive warp junction thing they hadn't conquered the entire Federation already)

.

 

(Phewf, these spoiler tags are exhausting, plus it really niggles my OCD that they force line-breaks. Perhaps we should just list any episodes spoilt at the top of posts. I'll come back and edit this post to that effect later. In a most non-stereotypical Trekkie move, I'm going to meet my girlfriend at the pub now instead of continuing to discuss Trek on the internet.)

[SecretAsianMan]

Life Line is also the episode that introduces the two way data streams between Voyager and Earth (although not the real time video one used in Author, Author) in case you were confused how that got started.

 

As for the thing you want to check the wiki for

Since it's the Borg, they can just transplant the Queen's consciousness into a new body or create a new queen.  The producers of the show have stated that the actions taken by Voyager at the end of the series did NOT destroy the Borg, although it did weaken them severely.  As for why they haven't conquered the Federation, there's really no good reason.  If one cube is such a huge threat, you'd think that just by sending a couple more they could have done it easily, especially with a conduit right next to Earth.

[Ben X]

Hm, can't be bothered to edit that post. I'm going to assume no one here minds VOYAGER SPOILERS.

 

 

So, it turns out I missed a few Borg Queen episodes but they keep it quite vague anyway. They say she was assimilated at a young age but then her organic parts can be recreated. To my mind, that makes her introduction in First Contact, which was contradictory to the interesting idea of the Borg collective anyway, retroactively unnecessary as she's no longer an individual villain to be defeated but just another easily-replaceable Borg.

 

I've started on the Enterprise pilot. I forgot how awful that theme tune is, and how photogenic the entire human crew are. When I said "If they really wanted to attract a new male audience they could have cast Yasmine Bleeth or something" in a previous post, I forgot that they pretty much did that for the next series! Good to see TIny Lister as a Klingon, though they haven't actually made use of his height yet by showing him standing next to anyone.

[Ben X]

I'm going to go with this list for Enterprise, plus I might fit in some of Mike's season 4 episodes. If nothing else, I should get some Borg/evil crew/generation-crossover antics.

[BigJKO]

DS9 Season 6 spoilers (But Ben is finished with that, so this probably won't spoil anyone!)

 

Season 6 of DS9 continues to be fantastic! It's basically what I've been wanting all along. For now, at least, I like how it's just one big arc. Less stand-alone episodes, more continuing stories!

 

Although, now they've recaptured the station I'm afraid it'll go back to single-episode shenanigans.. But I'm glad I stuck with it so far!

[SecretAsianMan]

My biggest problem with the Queen is that Picard recons her existence.  He says that he remembers her presence when he was assimilated.  If they already had an individual to speak for the collective, why did they need Picard?

[BigJKO]

Not that it wasn't a stupid plan regardless, but I have a vague recollection of it being something about having a recognisable face for the invasion of Earth.

[SecretAsianMan]

They do say they want to use Picard to help facilitate Humanity's assimilation, but they're the freaking Borg.  It's so completely unnecessary, but it made for good watching which in the end is what matters so I'm gonna stop complaining.

[feelthedarkness]

I'm willing to cut way deeper, the TNG movies, and the Borg Queen in general undercut what makes Star Trek generally compelling, and they never came back from it. Picard is a thoughtful man who will try to save an entity that only wants to kill people, in an effort to respect life's diversity, and the movies turn him into a guy swinging on ropes, shooting a machine gun, and doing sick off roading hot rod jumps.

 

The whole power of the borg is decentralization, the fear is in that you can't cripple them with a well placed blow. The only reason to have a queen is to make a silly action movie. 

 

Also, while I'm being a sourpuss the entirety of Enterprise is boring and irredeemable. I remember being so disappointed in Season 1, and Carbon Creek, the S2 premier is actually pretty good and I thought it turned around, but it doesn't, outside of a minor uptick in S3.

[SecretAsianMan]

Even though I dislike the Borg Queen, I think First Contact was the best TNG movie.  I mostly love the way Picard, who is the most calm, collected, and diplomatic of the captains, becomes an angry, vengeful, and almost violent person when facing the Borg.  It makes him much more human to me to see that he has this flaw and is capable of succumbing to those instincts when pushed far enough. 

 

I also think it's the least silly and ridiculous one.  Insurrection was especially ridiculous.  There's one scene where Data inflates to become a floatation device and another where Riker flies the Enterprise with a joystick.  I do admit though I love the scene where

 while dogfighting in shuttlecraft.

[Ben X]

Agreed on the Borg Queen, as above, but I'm willing to cut the movies a little slack on Picard - partly because the contrast to his usual character is intentional, I reckon, and partly because FC tackles it very directly and keeps it tied in with the Borg while the off-roading comes off more nerdy dad than Mad Max.

[feelthedarkness]

I'm not so charitable! I think the TV series handled it better in terms of showing his capacity for rage, but ultimately enlightenment and reason were core values he defined himself by, and causes worth fighting for. I think it's a cynical product of popular media to embrace the idea that human nature is violence and vengeance. 

 

Also, to really marginalize myself, I think all the Next Gen movies are really bad and undermine the spirit of the show, but I kind of like Generations best. I think it's almost fixable if there were a director's cut. 

[SecretAsianMan]

I think violence and vengeance are a part of human nature but not the core.  Humans are complex creatures, and I think having Picard display those feelings despite his "enlightenment" demonstrates that.  In the end he still comes around and lets go of his desire for revenge, but to deny that he ever had any is just naïve.

 

Generations would be a much better movie if it ended differently.  I'm not a big fan of Kirk but that ending was crap.

[Dewar]

The Borg drilled into his brain and forced him to help kill 100s of other people. I think most of the normal character attributes for Picard go out the window when the Borg are involved.

 

Also, the most of the action movie stuff was in later movies. Picard was only really involved in one major action movie style fight, right at the end when he goes in to save Data. Most of the fight scenes in First Contact are hiding in the dark halls of the Enterprise, scared for your life, Aliens sort of tense moments. The off-roading was in Nemesis, and most of the crazy commando stuff was in Insurrection.

 

I still like Enterprise (the TV series.) I acknowledge that it's got some pretty cheesy bits and bad one-off episodes, but once they got the Xindi story arc going I felt like they nailed the feeling that Voyager tried for and missed, a moral captain out there on his own doing immoral things to get the job done.

[Ben X]

Just watched Carbon Creek. It was a nice idea, but it doesn't manage to get around the dryness that comes with having three Vulcans as the lead characters.

[cyrix]

I'm going to go with this list for Enterprise, plus I might fit in some of Mike's season 4 episodes. If nothing else, I should get some Borg/evil crew/generation-crossover antics.

 

I can't write a list myself because it's been so long since I watched enterprise but I don't like that the guy who wrote it really seems to dislike the series a lot, seems like the wrong way to go about making the list.

A few of his choices are definintly correct though, a mirror darkly in particular is a ton of fun.

Also that final episode (#10) really is awful, but it's worth watching just to fully understand why people hate it so much.

 

I could never only watch 10 episodes out of a series to begin with though, just feels wrong to me. I can understand not having the time though.

Whoops edit: upon looking at the list further I realise it is more than ten episodes, my bad, but also a really bad title considering.

EDIT2: Okay the list is actually pretty good, I was just salty because being an enterprise fan I didn't care for his tone.

[Ben X]

Watched "REGENERATION" - ENTERPRISE 02.23 (SPOILERS).

 

It was okay. It was kind of cool seeing less well-equipped people learn the rules of the Borg at the start of an outbreak, but that's pretty much the only fresh aspect to a story we've seen plenty of times already.

 

Unless they fix it later in the series, it suddenly makes no sense that the Federation haven't heard of the Borg before. Considering every starship captain seems to know Federation (and indeed human) history inside out, it's strange that Picard doesn't go "oh, this must be that cyborg race that lives in Delta Quadrant that we know loads about from Admiral Archer's encounter and from them being only about the third or fourth alien race to be encountered on Earth itself." You'd think this would be at the forefront of the writers' minds; I was waiting for a Revenge Of The Sith style "wipe the protocol droid's memory" type move at the end of the episode. I noticed they avoided having the Borg name themselves, but that doesn't solve it. Assuming that the drones in the Arctic are from the events of First Contact, though, the fact that they alert their collective to the existence of Earth/Alpha Quadrant does have a nice time paradox/circularity flavour to it.

 

Also, the people at the Arctic outpost were fucking idiots who deserved to be assimilated. And I'm going to keep mentioning this fucking theme tune. "I have faith to believe" DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING.

[SecretAsianMan]

Assuming that the drones in the Arctic are from the events of First Contact, though, the fact that they alert their collective to the existence of Earth/Alpha Quadrant does have a nice time paradox/circularity flavour to it.

 

I believe that was the intent.  Also, because I can't help myself, more random Star Trek trivia.  At one point during the show's run, an idea was pitched that a female Starfleet medical technician would get assimilated by some Borg from the episode.  That technician would have been played by Alice Krige, the actress for the Borg Queen, thus showing the birth of the Queen.

[Dewar]

Once could make the argument that the timeline was changed in First Contact, so Picard and the rest of them hadn't heard of the Borg at all when they first encountered them, and after the timeline was altered that there was no reason for them to mention that Archer had found them first.

 

But yeah, the end of that was kind of lame.

[Bjorn]

General thought, I viewed the Borg as super cool when they were first introduced, but the longer they stuck around and the more shows they appeared in, the less and less interesting they became.  They're just too "sci-fiy" for my tastes.  I enjoyed the antagonists who felt like stand-ins for real world conflicts more, as the story arcs and character had more meat to them.