BigJKO

A Dedicated Thread For Talking About Star Trek Episodes

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I'ts hard to remember specifics, but at the time I remember thinking it was really cheesy.

One of the only specific things i remember is thinking Janeway should have died on that station thing in the first episode trying to send voyager home, and then Tuvok and Chipotle ;P should have like co-captained voyager or something.

I'll probably give it another try.

I do like some of the characters on voyager, always liked the doctor in particular. Actually I kinda always like the doctors in trek shows. hmm.

 

I think I agree. As I've said earlier, Voyager was my first Star Trek, so it took me too long to figure out that Janeway is probably the worst captain, combining Kirk's impulsiveness, Picard's high-handedness, and Sisko's rage with more than a few dysfunctions of her own. That said, Bob Picardo is a tremendous talent and it speaks to the intelligence of the writers that they recognized and exploited it in a non-obnoxious way throughout the series.

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What? Janeway's fun! She's not boring like Sisko. She's compassionate, intelligent and.. and.. Whatever! She's fine! She was better at the start, though, IMO. Then it was easy to buy into her belief of preserving the starfleet principles, but by now she's violated that so many times ("Oh, we've just bent the rules!") to get her crew home that her speeches on principles start feeling a bit hollow. And she's become too reckless of late, which just seems off for the earlier character.

 

At least the show recognises that a number of times with some aliens coming back with revenge for, for example, allowing the Borg to assimilate Species 8472. (That episode, btw, had the excellent Ray Wise challenging Janeway's 'principles' with his enormous head)

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The thing I don't like about Janeway is she's very inconsistent, almost bi-polar at times.  One episode she says she says she'd do everything the same given a second chance, another episode she's wallowing in self-pity and tells the crew to go on without her.  She wants to stick to the guidelines and principles of the Federation, then she's going out of her way to break them.  I guess in a way it made her interesting but I never really knew who she was.

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Yeah, she does this more and more in later seasons, I feel. At least, watching it through your list, she seemed more consistent in the first couple of seasons.

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This thread is really weird for me, I have harbored a deep dislike of voyager since I first saw some of it back in high school when I tried to watch all of trek. 

I couldn't even make it through the first season, you people are making me second guess myself.

Then again I really enjoyed Enterprise and think it's highly underrated (it has bad episodes/arcs as all treks do) so maybe I'm just insane.

 

Yeah I never had a high opinion of Voyager either. Maybe it's because I first saw it when I was a teenager and my parents liked it so I had to hate it? I just remember not really enjoying any of the characters like I did on the previous series. A friend of mine is watching TNG (and probably the other series afterward) for the first time and I'm rewatching with him, but we're going at a snails pace so I imagine we'll get to Voyager sometime in 2015...maybe I'll enjoy it more on a second/adult viewing.

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The thing I don't like about Janeway is she's very inconsistent, almost bi-polar at times.  One episode she says she says she'd do everything the same given a second chance, another episode she's wallowing in self-pity and tells the crew to go on without her.  She wants to stick to the guidelines and principles of the Federation, then she's going out of her way to break them.  I guess in a way it made her interesting but I never really knew who she was.

You know what? I think this is why Janeway never worked for me, I just didn't grok it back in the day because I wasn't really thinking all that critically about stuff yet. 

Kinda funny then that I kinda stumbled on a solution for it, if Janeway had died they would have been able to use Tuvok and Chakotay to fulfill that struggle without having to make one character flip flop.

Also i think part of it was disappointment, the concept for voyager is really great! 

A Starfleet vessel lost far from any assistance, forced to merge crews with an "enemy" trying to find their way home. Could have been a really good, kinda dark trek series. Think Stargate Universe meets BSG or something.

Instead we got one of the cheesier treks...

I'll give it another shot.

If some of you haven't you should really give Enterprise a chance too, it's much better than the internet would lead you to believe.

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What? Janeway's fun! She's not boring like Sisko. She's compassionate, intelligent and.. and.. Whatever!

If you think Sisko's boring, you're obviously only around season three or so. The level of hammy, sassy unhingedness in Sisko's character is almost half of what makes the later seasons a delight.

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You know what? I think this is why Janeway never worked for me, I just didn't grok it back in the day because I wasn't really thinking all that critically about stuff yet. 

Kinda funny then that I kinda stumbled on a solution for it, if Janeway had died they would have been able to use Tuvok and Chakotay to fulfill that struggle without having to make one character flip flop.

Also i think part of it was disappointment, the concept for voyager is really great! 

A Starfleet vessel lost far from any assistance, forced to merge crews with an "enemy" trying to find their way home. Could have been a really good, kinda dark trek series. Think Stargate Universe meets BSG or something.

Instead we got one of the cheesier treks...

I'll give it another shot.

If some of you haven't you should really give Enterprise a chance too, it's much better than the internet would lead you to believe.

 

Enterprise is awesome. It has some of the same themes as Voyager what with being out there pretty much alone, but it executes them a lot better I think.

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If you think Sisko's boring, you're obviously only around season three or so. The level of hammy, sassy unhingedness in Sisko's character is almost half of what makes the later seasons a delight.

Yes! You are correct. I gave up and started Voyager instead. After I'm done with that I'll go back and finish DS9. And Sisko isn't boring really, but he is my least favorite captain of the three I've watched. So far!

I definitely want to watch a bit of Enterprise afterwards. Any good lists of episode to watch? (..the only way I can watch a Star Trek show, apparently.)

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Yes! You are correct. I gave up and started Voyager instead. After I'm done with that I'll go back and finish DS9. And Sisko isn't boring really, but he is my least favorite captain of the three I've watched. So far!

I definitely want to watch a bit of Enterprise afterwards. Any good lists of episode to watch? (..the only way I can watch a Star Trek show, apparently.)

 

Don't look at me (I'm Hideo).  I know less about Enterprise than I do DS9.

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I definitely want to watch a bit of Enterprise afterwards. Any good lists of episode to watch? (..the only way I can watch a Star Trek show, apparently.)

 

I only watched the fourth season of the show.  I enjoyed some of the three-episode arcs:

 

- Borderlands/Cold Station 12/The Augments - Brent Spiner guest stars as an evil Dr. Soong ancestor.

- The Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara - Vulcan stuff that Bakula plays pretty well.

 

I also perversely really enjoyed the final episode "These Are The Voyages", because it's just a Next Generation episode that treats Enterprise like it isn't worth watching.

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I also perversely really enjoyed the final episode "These Are The Voyages", because it's just a Next Generation episode that treats Enterprise like it isn't worth watching.

 

That's one of the reasons so many fans hated it.  Also the

seemingly unnecessary death of Trip

I did like the very last scene where they have the 3 Enterprise captains recite the "These are the voyages" speech.

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I'm going to give Voyager another shot at some point. I remember thinking it lacked drama and character, especially compared to DS9.

DS9 stands out to me among this style of show, because it has things like convincing father-son relationships and other situations to which actual human beings can relate. Even in times of plot-heavy intergalactic war, they shed light on how those big events affect the lives of individuals. It's also full of snappy writing; I think they pull off the lighter moments well.

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Body and Soul. Okay, yes this is goofy as hell but., Doctor in Seven of Nine! :tup:

She does an excellent impression of him, actually. Haha, this is too good.

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Brent Spiner guest stars as an evil Dr. Soong ancestor.

 

Gross.

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Body and Soul. Okay, yes this is goofy as hell but., Doctor in Seven of Nine! :tup:

She does an excellent impression of him, actually. Haha, this is too good.

 

For that episode, Robert Picardo acted out the scenes where the Doctor was inhabiting Seven's body so that Jeri Ryan could observe him, then mimic his performance.  I would love to see some footage of that, if it existed.

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That's one of the reasons so many fans hated it.  Also the

seemingly unnecessary death of Trip

I did like the very last scene where they have the 3 Enterprise captains recite the "These are the voyages" speech.

While there is something interesting about that episode in how "weird" it is, that shit was a really unnecessary kick to the fans faces.

That final moment was really good.

Also love that they threw a bone (pun!) to enterprise fans in the first Abrams trek movie.

Scottie transports Admiral Archer's prized beagle on accident.

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Season 5

Night – 5x01

Timeless – 5x06

Nothing Human – 5x08

Counterpoint – 5x10

Latent Image – 5x11

Bride of Chaotica! – 5x12 (another largely comic episode)

Dark Frontier – 5x15, 5x16

Course: Oblivion – 5x18

Relativity – 5x24 (time travel hijinks)

Equinox – 5x26

 

Just watched "Bride of Chaotica" based on this list.  It was the first time I watched Voyager in years and it was difficult for me to watch such a dysfunctional ensemble.  Russ and Beltran weren't the focus of the episode, and they looked positively resentful that they had to show up.  It made the show really lopsided; Phillips and Ryan weren't the focus, either, and they were fine.

 

Mulgrew was basically acting like Eartha Kitt as the titular character, so that was fun.

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I finished up DS9.  I feel the same way about the ending that I did for most of the show.  Intellectually, I like it and appreciate the larger themes.  But as a bit of entertainment, I wasn't hugely into it because it felt rather impersonal to me.  Because everything is about big, global conflict or conflicting ideologies or religion or what have you, I didn't get very attached to any of the characters that much.  I still like many of them, Garak and Odo in particular.  But I didn't get that same closeness as I did with TNG or Voyager.  Also the Pah-wraiths are dumb and completely unnecessary for anything.

 

One thing I did like about the finale was the way it shows everyone moving on instead of just continuing as if nothing happened or abruptly ending.  I didn't really care for the flashback presentation, but it was still nice to get a degree of closure.

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Now that I've finished up DS9, I'm engaging in some circular self indulgence and watching Voyager episodes from my own list.  It feels weird to be back on a ship again and dealing with science/technology problems instead of political ones.

 

Also that episode of TNG that Jake talked about in the latest cast is appropriately enough called The Game.  Commander Riker is the one who introduces it to the crew and it's up to Wesley Crusher to save the day.  Also features a young Ashley Judd as Wes' gal pal.

 

Ktarian_game_graphics.jpg

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I'm giving up on DS9. Perhaps it's because I'm not watching the whole thing, but I'm at season 5 and even the cherry-picked episodes are nothing special. I'm enjoying Voyager (and especially Robert Picardo) enough to keep going with that. So I ended on a high note with the excellent "Trials And Tribble-ations" (it's a shame that Tribbles didn't become more of a tradiition - TOS, TAS and DS9 got them,would have been nice for TNG, Voyager and Enterprise to get them too) and am about to watch First Contact. Then I'll continue through Voyager,and slot in the few episodes of DS9 on the list that Gormongous annotated for special attention (best Klingon ep evar etc), then perhaps watch the best ten eps of Enterprise if I can wangle a list from someone here or failing that online.

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Yeah, hello is anyone going to make an Enterprise list for us? Come on!

 

I'm also close to giving up on DS9.

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I'm giving up on DS9. Perhaps it's because I'm not watching the whole thing, but I'm at season 5 and even the cherry-picked episodes are nothing special. I'm enjoying Voyager (and especially Robert Picardo) enough to keep going with that. So I ended on a high note with the excellent "Trials And Tribble-ations" (it's a shame that Tribbles didn't become more of a tradiition - TOS, TAS and DS9 got them,would have been nice for TNG, Voyager and Enterprise to get them too) and am about to watch First Contact. Then I'll continue through Voyager,and slot in the few episodes of DS9 on the list that Gormongous annotated for special attention (best Klingon ep evar etc), then perhaps watch the best ten eps of Enterprise if I can wangle a list from someone here or failing that online.

Yeah, hello is anyone going to make an Enterprise list for us? Come on!

 

I'm also close to giving up on DS9.

 

I am sad. Rewatching along with a friend, I don't think season six has a single bad episode in it, although One Little Ship is to taste, and has the two best episodes Star Trek has ever produced. I really really hate people saying, "Stick with X until Y, that's when it gets good," so please please quit when you aren't getting any enjoyment out of it, but I will be sad still.

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