Tales of Monkey Island

[SignorSuperdouche]

it almost feels like there should be a seperate thread specifically about playing ToMI, to protect people like me who are avoiding spoilers.

This is the Tales of Monkey Island thread, if anyone should be making a separate thread it's the people talking about Monkey Island 2

There was a lot to love in Tales. There was an ineffable Monkey Island feel to the game that I thought had been lost to my youth. I cannot express my gratitude to Telltale enough for recapturing the sensation of playing SOMI for the first time as an 11 year old boy. I can't say what mix of elements provoked this reaction in me (the music is certainly high on the list) but I suspect voodoo may have been involved. The menus and environments were lush and whooshing out into the map view was one of the most awesome game experiences I've had this year. It seems I'm the odd one out here, but I also enjoyed controlling Guybrush with a mouse for the most part. I use a tracker ball though, which is similar to an analogue stick in some ways, so maybe that makes the difference.

On the down side, I found plenty of bugs, mostly to do with dialogue, and I have to agree with the complaints regarding the inventory. These are just quibbles really and didn't affect my enjoyment of the game much at all. Bigger problems were that many of the puzzle solutions were more WTF? than AHA! and I found myself using trial and error instead reason on a couple of occasions (

I still have no idea how you're supposed to work out which path to take to follow the wind - yeah forget that, it's pretty obvious actually.

).

Overall I'm fairly positive about this episode and I can't wait to see where Telltale takes me next.

Edited July 10, 2009 by SignorSuperdouche

[vimes]

I mostly agree with what Rodi said : good but not stellar.

Because of the crafty hands at TT games, it was enjoyable but I was surprised to see how formulaic everything seemed : the writing was good but lacked character (secondary cast could be put in S&M and no one would notice), the musics were good but unimaginative (except for the piece inside LeSinge's laboratory), the puzzles lacked the inventiveness of Chariots of the Dog or The Great Cow Race, the art design was good but lacked the particular edge of the concept arts ...

In the end, I had an OK time but feel disappointed to not be surprised at all by where Telltale decided to take me with the MI universe - at least so far. Maybe that's what happen when you bring veterans of a mythic series to a new installment, but I was expecting more bravado on the gameplay front at least.

[miffy495]

Though I don't quite agree with the number, I also think that EG's text is very accurate. I think the graphics were a bit better than they said, but otherwise I agree. For me it actually felt quite a bit like an extension of EMI rather than a callback to an earlier game. Having things like the glassblower, pirate captain who seemed to be in it more for the novelty than a genuine pirate, pirate nightclub, and the action figures really made it seem to continue with EMI's theme of commercializing the pirate lifestyle than the legitimately dirty and scummy (though still a bit modern) pirates of the previous three games. Maybe this is due to the nature of Flotsam Island calming everyone down and things will get dirtier as the series progresses, but that's the vibe I got.

As I've said a few times, I liked EMI, so this isn't really a negative for me, but I do see the game making EMI's take on the MI universe more legitimate than it seemed when in comparison to SMI, MI2, and CMI.

Still, I'm very much looking forward to what comes next, as I enjoyed episode one immensely. And, dare I speculate,

could the woman holding a sword to your throat at the end be Carla?

The possibilities!

[vimes]

Mmm, I just noticed I cut but forgot to paste a paragraph in my previous post :

As for the , I was delighted to see that the graphics got better (subtle DOF effect, some kind of baked ambient occlusion, better textures) and that they nailed the look of Guybrush, Elaine and 95% of the environment (not so convinced about the jungle). Also, I loved the very first plot twist and the cliffhanger.

[ThunderPeel2001]

*sob*

I still stand by what I said, but... even David Grossman just said to me:

"Clear" is not a word I have ever been tempted to use in conjunction with the end of Monkey 2. In fact, it's quite deliberately UNclear.

But he also said the following about Bill Tiller's quote:

I would caution you not to put too much faith into any particular rumor you might hear about it. Those who know don't tell, and those who tell don't know.

[Chris]

*sob*

I still stand by what I said, but... even David Grossman just said to me:

See that's exactly what I'm talking about. I love that it's unclear. To me, that is what makes it good.

I also interviewed Grossman recently ( http://bit.ly/w0z43 ) and asked him if they did indeed have an actual interpretation of that game's ending. I didn't ask what it was, but I wanted to know if they knew. He said, "Yes, and it was somewhat vague and paradoxical, but there was an internal interpretation thereof."

He then mentioned the mentioned-many-times-before hypothetical Ron Gilbert Monkey Island 3.

Regarding the possibility of anything like that in Tales, "That just might be slightly off the page for what we've got planned for this season anyway. I mean, there's some weird stuff, but it may stop short of being that weird."

I think the fact that he also considers the ending to be so weird just further points to it not having an apparent or clear-cut explanation.

But he also said the following about Bill Tiller's quote:

I don't remember what this is and I can't be bothered to search back through the thread to find it.

[Thrik]

Not read half the posts here because I've not finished it, but I agree about the inventory. Simply clicking two items together would be much better for combining items, although perhaps the current mechanism could be left there as an option for consistency and usability for people new to the series.

It also seems like moving the mouse away should definitely close the inventory, but I think it should remain a button to open it as otherwise you might be trying to click a hotspot on that side of the screen, trigger it, and then have to move your mouse right out the way to close it.

[vimes]

The inventory UI is so unnecessarily convoluted there must be an interesting story behind it. I mean, why they haven't use right clicking for inspection and using a selected item on another for combination, is a mystery.

Also, putting it on the side of the screen makes it a nightmare for dual screen users like me, but that's a minor flaw.

[Thrik]

To be honest right clicking an item to inspect it isn't the most intuitive solution ever, even if we adventure games are attuned to it. I think the magnifying glass icon is a good feature for the new crowd who'll be playing, although right clicking should be there as an option.

Same for the combining. Them being combined via an exceedingly visual interface is good, but for more experienced users there's no harm in having the direct-click way of combining too.

[vimes]

As far as usability is concerned, I don't think I would trade 2 seconds of explaining a mechanism based on very well known HCI interactions (i.e. right click and drag 'n drop) against hours of 5 clicks away actions.

The rest might be true, but it seems strange that they tried to contain item combination by making it a hassle; if such a gameplay feature is so toxic to the rest of the game, maybe it shouldn't be there in the first place.

Now that I think of it, I can only remember 4 instances in which I used combination (

the root beer +mint, the ninja + his sword, the lens + the maps, the glass with the horn

) ; so they just might have been able to go away with making those automatic.

[Thyroid]

I literally just finished the chapter and I have to say, I pretty much agree with everything the EG review said. Bit of a harsh score at the end though

Mauling it over, I've changed my position and I do think that the EG review was pretty good - but the score was too harsh.

I need to think about this. I think I've finally figured out what's always bothered me about Telltale.

[vimes]

How is 7 a harsh score ? I think it's a pretty good score.

Maybe it's cultural perception : 7/10 is 14/20 in the french grading system, a mark any pupils would perceive has very good, 16 being the threshold at which you were considered to be part of an elite.

[elmuerte]

7 is a harsh score because the lowest score they give out is 5, which is for the huge pieces of shit. It's just pollution of the grading system.

We should all convert to the InverseStar™ rating system.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I don't remember what this is and I can't be bothered to search back through the thread to find it.

You lazy sod

Well this is all I know, and I learned it from Larry Ahern and Dave Grossman. [..] The explanation I heard is that Guybrush was lost in the Pirates Ride at Big Whoop Amusement Park the whole time, imagining the whole adventure. Then Chucky, his mean older brother goes and pulls him back to reality. The end. And that magical lightning coming out of Chucky's eyes and Elaine waiting by the hole on Dinky Island (which sounds a lot like Disney Land) was put there just in case there was to be a Monkey Island 3. The secret is that the MI world is not real.

I would caution you not to put too much faith into any particular rumor you might hear about it. Those who know don't tell, and those who tell don't know.

It seems that this only backs up your assertion... It's vague and we shouldn't trust anyone who says otherwise

[Erkki]

Played the Launch of the Screaming Narwhal. The start of the episode was somewhat disappointing, but at some point (not sure where exactly, I think after meeting that captain whose name I already forgot) I really started to enjoy it. And it left a very good impression overall.

Maybe not a classic like the first 3 games, but a lot better than Escape from MI.

[edit] oh, and I also think the UI for inventory could be better, but I like Walter's explanation for why combining might be done this way. I definitely didn't try to combine things as much as I usually do in MI games. Still, mouseover/mouseout to bring up or close the inventory might be a good idea. But I used TAB since my hand was on WASD anyway.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Erkki

[Nappi]

Awesome! By far the most enjoyable Telltale Games episode I have played. Guybrush felt like Guybrush, Monkey Island felt like Monkey Island (as an universe) and well, everything just felt right for the most parts.

I ran into a couple of bugs, though, one that made the tooltips to disappear making it hard to locate objects and other that caused Guybrush to stop moving his legs. Restarting the game fixed both of those problems, so it was ok. I think the most annoying thing in the game was

wind direction

puzzle because the camera rotated every time I used

that

thing making it hard to see

which direction the wind was actually blowing

.

Those were very minor inconveniences really and the game felt mostly pretty well polished. Didn't even mind the controls that much. Can't wait to get my hands on the next episode!

[Karimi]

Overall meh I think, it was ok, better than some of the Sam and Max episodes. Started off a bit weakly, but ended well. I think the overall art direction ruined it for me, I wasn't a huge fan of the EMI graphics but they seemed a lot more lush than ToMI.

Summary : Its good to be back at the beach, but the water is cold.

[Thrik]

Not that I don't respect your opinion, but are you sure you're not seeing EMI through rose-tinted glasses? Because to me the EMI art direction was awful, completely devoid of any charm or warmth. The fact that so much of it looks little better than TMI's 3D despite being pre-rendered is laughable, especially when put next to its engine predecessor Grim Fandango.

(Shots chosen due to having similar lighting to Flotsam Island.)

Edited July 12, 2009 by Thrik

[Erkki]

Ewww... porcelain. I will never get Marco Polo jokes.

[Jake]

Only finished the intro puzzle, but so far the inventory UI is atrocious. Why is there a completely different UI element to combine inventory items? Why can't I just select one item, then the other? Is reordering my inventory so important that it requires the clunky panel?

For what its worth I originally was going for a more streamlined inventory combination UI, but I was asked to make it something which was omnipresent and more activity center-like, so that it would always remind the player that they could combine inventory, even if they hadn't in ages. Nothing is worse than roaming around in an adventure game for a couple extra hours because you didn't think to use one item on another, and this is the first time in its five year existence that Telltale's done a game with inventory combination so we wanted to make sure people knew. As for why we don't alternatively also support dragging one item onto another, if that was my decision I could answer that definitively.

Walter said it better in his post, though. (Like he usually does. Hi, Walter!) Except it wasn't intended to deliberately be a hassle.

Why does the magnifying glass deselect after looking at an item?

It originally didn't and was more annoying by far. Your instinct is leading you astray here, I promise. There are more times that you want to just examine something once and then to try and use it than there are times when you want to go and examine many things in a row. Protip: Instead of clicking the magnifying glass to enter "examine mode," you can instead drop an inventory item onto the magnifying glass icon to examine it immediately.

Why do I need to click to exit the inventory?

Because it's modal? If you mean "why do I need to click on the world to close it and then click again on the item I want to use the inventory on," you got me. I just work here.

Played the Launch of the Screaming Narwhal. The start of the episode was somewhat disappointing, but at some point (not sure where exactly, I think after meeting that captain whose name I already forgot) I really started to enjoy it. And it left a very good impression overall.

Maybe not a classic like the first 3 games, but a lot better than Escape from MI.

[edit] oh, and I also think the UI for inventory could be better, but I like Walter's explanation for why combining might be done this way. I definitely didn't try to combine things as much as I usually do in MI games. Still, mouseover/mouseout to bring up or close the inventory might be a good idea. But I used TAB since my hand was on WASD anyway.

You can move the mouse to the far right side of the screen to open the inventory, hidden dock/taskbar style. Also middle mouse button opens inventory. Also "i" and possibly "r" and (as you said) Tab. You may have been implying that you knew that with "mouseover/mouseout to bring up or close the inventory might be a good idea," or you were suggesting that you should let people just roll the mouse out of the inventory to close it? (Which would probably be a bad idea because many people roll the mouse out of the inventory area and back into the game window when thinking about / looking at the inventory, but aren't intending to actually go back into the game with that action. Maybe once you've actually got something equipped though... maybe that would be good and not bad. I guess that's what they did in Curse of MI but I don't remember if I liked that or was annoyed at it for closing on me. (parenthetical statement))

[Noyb]

For what its worth I originally was going for a more streamlined inventory combination UI, but I was asked to make it something which was omnipresent and more activity center-like, so that it would always remind the player that they could combine inventory, even if they hadn't in ages. Nothing is worse than roaming around in an adventure game for a couple extra hours because you didn't think to use one item on another, and this is the first time in its five year existence that Telltale's done a game with inventory combination so we wanted to make sure people knew.

Like Walter said, the tutorial was integrated into the introduction this time, and could be used to illustrate any intricacies. The very first puzzle has you look at an object, combine two objects when prompted by the tutorial text , and then combine two on your own. It's hard for me to say if that's enough, having played adventure games from childhood.

Come to think of it, the combining panel might make it marginally less annoying when you're combining inventory items on different pages (which I don't think came up in this episode.)

As for why we don't alternatively also support dragging one item onto another, if that was my decision I could answer that definitively.

You've got to have options.

(Corporate politics. Got it.)

Your instinct is leading you astray here, I promise. There are more times that you want to just examine something once and then to try and use it than there are times when you want to go and examine many things in a row.

Maybe that's just my play style? When I'm stuck, I tend to look at everything I have first before doing anything. Granted, during normal game flow it didn't bother me much. More independent of play styles, the first time you open your inventory in the introduction you have 3-4 brand new items calling out to be observed. First impressions matter.

On a broader scale, I can't remember if there were many times when you picked up an item, then were able to use it on the same screen without walking (apart from the few inventory combination ones).

Protip: Instead of clicking the magnifying glass to enter "examine mode," you can instead drop an inventory item onto the magnifying glass icon to examine it immediately.

I didn't think to try dragging objects to the magnifying glass after dragging to combine items didn't work. It's also a bit backwards for me to think object-->action, although this might be the preconceived adventure game notions again.

Maybe once you've actually got something equipped though... maybe that would be good and not bad. I guess that's what they did in Curse of MI but I don't remember if I liked that or was annoyed at it for closing on me. (parenthetical statement))

Yeah, I was too vague earlier, and wasn't even thinking at this level of depth. Mouseover to open the inventory probably wouldn't work well since you're using a dynamic camera and can't guarantee there won't be any important hotspots in that part of the screen. Mouseover to exit when you're holding an item like you're describing has never bothered me as long as the buffer zone around the inventory is large enough to minimize accidental closing. YMMV.

Oh, and, err...I didn't realize you worked on the UI until I hit the credits. Apologies if my crazy internet forum rant seemed too harsh in tone. At worst, the ToMI UI is inefficient. If it's any condolence, in Macarena of the Missing I committed the far greater game design sin of implementing item combining without actually using it in a puzzle.

[Scrobbs]

I was unsure about buying this, especially since it was the whole lot - was just after buying the first ep if poss. However, I just read the EG review, and bought it. It did say the character models were a bit poor (I've only just passed the credits, so can't judge), but that the puzzles were up to scratch and that the humour was there too. Which is all that matters really - the window dressing I can put up with if the feel is there, which it seemed to be. So...purchased!

[thorn]

Just finished Launch of the Screaming Narwhal and I have to say that I loved it. Liked the setting and characters, thought the puzzles were great and felt really Monkey Island-y. I even thought the inventory was pretty good (shock horror) and thought that the method to combine objects was intuitive and easy to use (especially in comparison to the comments I'd read in this thread).

My only significant complaint is the movement controls. It was just too awkward to click and drag to move around. Whenever I had to cross more than one screen to get somewhere, I always switched to keyboard mode. It would have been good if I could have stuck to it, but I had to use the mouse controls when exploring and clicking on things. It was really quite frustrating to regularly move my hand back and forth between the keyboard and the mouse (EDIT: I only just realised I could have used WASD with my left hand and kept my right hand on the mouse). In the end, what I mostly did was click on hotspots near to where I wanted to go and then use the mouse controls from there. For instance; when I was near the glass blowers house and I wanted to leave that location and go to the forest, I would click on the pillars, wait for Guybrush to go to them, start talking about them, right click to cut the dialog short and then would click and drag the mouse to walk out of the scene. I would looooove it if the future games had mouse control similar to Sam & Max or at least the ability to click on a hotspot to immediately walk to and out of the location.

Other minor quibbles include that there wasn't as much dialogue I would have liked (ironic since I complained about EMI for having too much), though the writing and acting was excellent. I had to look at the walkthrough for the first map puzzle after I'd done it perfectly three times and ended up nowhere, simply because I hadn't clicked the map on the well to tell the game I'd officially started on the trail. That shouldn't have been necessary. Also, I'm being really anal retentive here but in all the previous games, the Voodoo Lady disappeared enigmatically once you stopped talking to her, rather than staying and watching you wander through her house.

But, all that said, I loved Launch of the Screaming Narwhal and I am really, really looking forward to the rest of the series. High-five to Jake and the rest of the Telltale team!

Edited July 13, 2009 by thorn

[miffy495]

Other minor quibbles include that there wasn't as much dialogue I would have liked (ironic since I complained about EMI for having too much), though the writing and acting was excellent. I had to look at the walkthrough for the first map puzzle after I'd done it perfectly three times and ended up nowhere, simply because I hadn't clicked the map on the well to tell the game I'd officially started on the trail. That shouldn't have been necessary.

Exact same thing happened to me. Only time I had to look for hints, and it kinda pissed me off that I'd solved the puzzle and still had to look up the solution.

[Jake]

Like Walter said, the tutorial was integrated into the introduction this time, and could be used to illustrate any intricacies. The very first puzzle has you look at an object, combine two objects when prompted by the tutorial text , and then combine two on your own. It's hard for me to say if that's enough, having played adventure games from childhood.

It's not so much introducing the feature thats an issue but to passively remind you to even think of it throughout gameplay. I know the tutorial includes it, as it would be insane otherwise.

Oh well. I know the inventory is inefficient but at least I've had people say they like the feeling of successfully combining things, which was the one thing I was hoping to get out of the configuration we ended up putting in the game.