Roderick

Tales of Monkey Island

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IMO: He now has to handle all their homogenised crap (like "Bolt"), too (and no doubt get all excited by it, yuck).

Er... except (like was just referred to twice) Bolt's the product of his decision(s). It's not at all just something he puts up with, he injected the homogeny himself. Reposting those links for you:

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/chris-sanders-no-longer-directing-american-dog.html

http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2006/10/10/6133.aspx

Here's a another link on exactly the "risk" American Dog would have taken:

http://alwaysanimated.blogspot.com/2008/11/art-of-american-dog.html

It's also funny not one Chris Sander's picture appeared in the Art of book. I'm not a Sander's fan, but surely that is an insult.

Also, Lasseter is not the one who started the Disney company importing, translating, and localizing Ghibli films. You can thank the Weinstein's for doing that originally through Miramax. Lasseter is just following through on the deal, you can be sure.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is while Pixar is probably the most versatile of animation companies in the US, it is still owned by the largest media company in the world, and will probably not be making any films that go very far beyond their output so far in terms of risk or subversiveness. I really doubt any hypothetical idea for a movie starting with Steve Purcell would end up as anything recognizably as his work, even if given complete "control" as a director. Had they not allowed themselves to be bought out by Disney for resources, distribution, team, and IP ownership a few years back when everyone was crossing their fingers hoping Pixar would become it's own independent animation company, things would probably be very different.

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Here's a another link on exactly the "risk" American Dog would have taken:

http://alwaysanimated.blogspot.com/2008/11/art-of-american-dog.html

Man, almost as sweaty and caustic as the dick of Michael Eisner. At least Eisner's was a corporate dick with an open contempt for the art and craft of animation. Lasseter's is hella hypocritical to boot.

A Bug's Life and Cars are two of my least favorite Pixar flicks. And the Toy Story movies are not all that exciting in the face of the other stuff the studio has created. Now I have a reason to actively dislike the dude's directorial dick rubbing.

On a somewhat related note, Ponyo is a rad little film. Tups all around.

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In Lasseter's defense:

-Although he's taken director credit on only a handful of Pixar's films, everything I've ever read, heard, or seen about the company is that it's very team-oriented, very group-think, everything's run and re-run through all the creative minds there to hone each film down to what we see in theaters. I doubt all of Pixar's other releases got through with none of Lasseter's input.

-Pixar is also very very story-oriented, which, from reading the links posted above, seemed to be one of his criticisms of American Dog

-Hawaiian shirts or not, Lasseter is now a businessman running a company. Furthermore, he was "brought in" to change the direction of Disney's animation. No doubt there's bias there and Sanders' firing was not fair or any of that, but hey... that's what happens when you're the boss. Your personal taste and vision are what drive the company forward. If the public agrees with your choices, you stay the boss. The second they don't, there's a new boss. I don't fault Lasseter for exerting his power when that's exactly what his position calls for. true, it sucks for Sanders, but he's not the first director to have his pet project unceremoniously killed by new management, nor will he be the last.

-i think any studio boss, if he had the situation presented where two projects were becoming too similar to successfully market separately, would make a tough choice on holding one back or changing one significantly as to not step on each other's toes. In that situation, if I was that studio boss and I had to choose which to scuttle: the next movie from the Lilo & Stitch guy or the next Pixar movie, I'd make the same choice.

-Meet the Robinsons and Bolt both made a lot of money. Whether or not Lasseter's choice as an artist was crap, his choice as a head of development was a success.

-Pre-Lasseter Disney was notorious for buying Miyazaki's American rights and sitting on them. I believe the weinsteins had to buy the rights from Disney just to put them out (may be wrong on that, don't know the details), so Ponyo's wide release can only be seen as a positive note for Lasseter.

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Man, almost as sweaty and caustic as the dick of Michael Eisner. At least Eisner's was a corporate dick with an open contempt for the art and craft of animation. Lasseter's is hella hypocritical to boot.

Hahaha, I will forever be afraid of the sweaty caustic dick!

A Bug's Life and Cars are two of my least favorite Pixar flicks. And the Toy Story movies are not all that exciting in the face of the other stuff the studio has created. Now I have a reason to actively dislike the dude's directorial dick rubbing.

I'll definitely agree with all of that. I also enjoy the Brad Bird directedmovies, but none of them seem to be as good as The Iron Giant. Maybe it's the lack of Vin Diesel?

Also all of this movie business talk makes me wish someone would just come out and say that the Pirates of the Caribbean movie was derived from what would have been the Monkey Island movie. Then they could publish an awesome artbook full of all of this leaked concept art.

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Also, Lasseter is not the one who started the Disney company importing, translating, and localizing Ghibli films. You can thank the Weinstein's for doing that originally through Miramax. Lasseter is just following through on the deal, you can be sure.

What?! Oh man, you talk some nonsense sometimes. The Weinstein's had a one picture deal with Studio Ghibli... and they tried to recut the movie for US release! That was the end of their relationship. (Ghibli sent them a Japanese sword with a note, "no cuts!".)

Walt Disney dubbed the English adaptation of Spirited Away (yes, I know they owned Miramax at the time), but they did it under the supervision of John Lasseter! (Which is why he's on the DVD introducing the film.)

According to Wankypedia: Lasseter was a "huge" Miyazaki fan, and he and his staff had often sat down and watched some of Miyazaki's work when they hit story problems. The first viewing of Spirited Away in the United States was in Pixar's screening room.

From the news: The Walt Disney Company, which holds the distribution rights to the films of Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki but has never put much marketing effort behind them, is set to give Miyazaki's latest film, Ponyo, a first-rate push. While previous Miyazaki films have opened in limited release in only a handful of theaters, Ponyo will debut in more than 800 theaters. Reuters on Tuesday indicated that John Lasseter, Disney's chief creative officer, has been behind the latest effort on behalf of the Japanese animator, whose films are generally enormous hits overseas.

The Weinsteins, on the other hand, are known for buying foreign films and refusing to release them! (Like Hero, which was only released when Tarantino discovered they owned it.)

I'll definitely agree with all of that. I also enjoy the Brad Bird directedmovies, but none of them seem to be as good as The Iron Giant. Maybe it's the lack of Vin Diesel?

Lol. The Iron Giant was amazing, with, dare I say it, perfect casting for Diesel ;)

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What?! Oh man, you talk some nonsense sometimes. The Weinstein's had a one picture deal with Studio Ghibli... and they tried to recut the movie for US release! That was the end of their relationship. (Ghibli sent them a Japanese sword with a note, "no cuts!".)

Walt Disney dubbed the English adaptation of Spirited Away (yes, I know they owned Miramax at the time), but they did it under the supervision of John Lasseter! (Which is why he's on the DVD introducing the film.)

Miramax is Disney, they still own them to this day, just sans Weinsteins now from 2005 on. It's still part of the Disney company. I don't know what you are talking about with this "one picture deal." Care to provide sources? Also in the interview where Miyazaki mentions the "no cuts" sword, which I am well aware of, no where does he say that that was the end of the relationship. The film was still released under Miramax.

If anything it just seems to be a failed attempt to successfuly market and theatrically release a Ghibli film in the US under their "arthouse" label, and so later films were pushed under the regular Disney/BuenaVista label.

The relationship has continued as you can read here and here:

http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/disney/

http://www.screendaily.com/disney-gets-spirited-away-for-north-america/408506.article

Disney has been distributing Studio Ghibli films since a deal signed with Ghibli corporate parent Tokuma in 1997. The only North American theatrical release to emerge from that deal, however, was of Princess Mononoke, a 1997 Miyazaki animation that was the previous Japanese box office record-holder.

Nonsense you say?

I'm not saying I like the Weinsteins either, especially how they mucked about with Brothers Grimm, and whatever John Lasseter is doing is really just his job. He's no savior for Ghibli. So he's a fan of Miyazaki? Everyone who has ever went to CalArts is also a fan of Miyazaki. It's nothing new.

Edited by syntheticgerbil

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Disney has been distributing Studio Ghibli films since a deal signed with Ghibli corporate parent Tokuma in 1997. The only North American theatrical release to emerge from that deal, however, was of Princess Mononoke, a 1997 Miyazaki animation that was the previous Japanese box office record-holder.

The relationship has continued as you can read here and here:

http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/disney/

http://www.screendaily.com/disney-gets-spirited-away-for-north-america/408506.article

Nothing in those articles contradicts what I've said. I don't think you've read the deal very closely: It says that Disney owns the Worldwide rights to some Studio Ghibli films for HOME VIDEO only. That's why the article you linked says "Walt Disney Co. has acquired North American rights to Hayao Miyazaki's smash animated hit Spirited Away" in its opening line.

The only theatrical deal they got was for Princess Mononoke... one film. You ask me to provide sources of the "one picture deal" and you've only done it for me (thanks!).

Also, just because Disney owned Miramax during the time they made this deal doesn't mean that Miramax = Disney. They were still separate companies, run by different people, in different buildings, with different goals.

I'm not saying I like the Weinsteins either, especially how they mucked about with Brothers Grimm, and whatever John Lasseter is doing is really just his job. He's no savior for Ghibli. So he's a fan of Miyazaki? Everyone who has ever went to CalArts is also a fan of Miyazaki. It's nothing new.

Jeez. Do you want me to argue with this barrage of cynicism? I'll just add that the reason Disney is giving Ponyo a theatrical cut is because of Lasseter, not because of any pre-existing deal. So yes, nonsense I say.

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If anything it just seems to be a failed attempt to successfuly market and theatrically release a Ghibli film in the US under their "arthouse" label, and so later films were pushed under the regular Disney/BuenaVista label.

Well it took them two years to do it (they bought it in 1997 and released it in 1999), so it suggests to me that they didn't know how to release it... but who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if it was dumped on Miramax myself. Also, Miramax... "arthouse"?

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Also, just because Disney owned Miramax during the time they made this deal doesn't mean that Miramax = Disney. They were still separate companies, run by different people, in different buildings, with different goals.

Separate buildings or not, Miramax is Disney and has been since 1993. It's not an unknown fact. If you correctly read the deal on the page, it was orginally made with the Disney company, not Miramax. Miramax releases the first movie, Princess Mononoke, theatrically under their studio label and not the Disney studio label, but it is still a part of the Disney deal and on Disney's dollars. How is this at all a separate bid from Miramax? No relationship ended obviously, and there was no "one picture deal" as Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, and Ponyo will attest to. Just because you switch the substudio that the parent studio owns doesn't make much of a difference, it's still the Disney/Ghibli deal.

But if you want to think that Miramax is some completely different company that does not answer to their parent company Disney or get involved in their deals, so be it. I can't argue against your perception of Miramax.

Nothing in those articles contradicts what I've said. I don't think you've read the deal very closely: It says that Disney owns the Worldwide rights to some Studio Ghibli films for HOME VIDEO only. That's why the article you linked says "Walt Disney Co. has acquired North American rights to Hayao Miyazaki's smash animated hit Spirited Away" in its opening line.

Okay, I never said Disney owns the US distribution rights, theatrical or home video, to *ALL* Ghibli films.

The only theatrical deal they got was for Princess Mononoke... one film. You ask me to provide sources of the "one picture deal" and you've only done it for me (thanks!).

Of course Disney cannot just release every new Ghibli film at their own will, but they have obviously been in business together for some time now.

At the time of the deal there was only one theatrical release. Spirited Away did not exist at that point. All I see is a deal that was expanded upon, not drawn up as a simple one-off. You still have not provided sources that Miramax (as a separate company) had only a "one picture deal" and that "the relationship was ended" because of the sword.

What the American Dog concept art ultimately shows is that Disney was gearing up to put out maybe one of the weirdest American animated movies in years (or decades) and it was axed for being "too risky." Whether you love Chris Sanders or not, there's no way that theatrical release could have been a bad thing for US animation except maybe in terms of dollars. The complaints Lasseter made about the story were a cop out, just as he later said that him and Chris Sanders are great friends (after firing him) while Sanders was stating how upset, angry, and burnt out he was. And then we got Bolt staring Miley Ray Cyrus and Lasseter goes on to promote Tinkerbell home video DVDs with a stupid grin. There's no way I can possibly see this guy in a good light beyond careful business decisions.

And either way, Lasseter did not have anything to do with the original Disney/Ghibli deal, which was my original point in that case. Even though he is a Miyazaki fan and has been involved with some of the dubs, he is still doing his job as a chief creative officer to offer the right kind of PR for Ponyo. Whether or not they are close friends, which I see as somewhat exaggerated, he is still doing his job.

Also you may want to check out this link and search for "John Semper Jr." who is a former Buena Vista employee/translator who takes fault with Lasseter hogging the credit (and his lack of) for Kiki's Delivery Service and Laputa:

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/anime/hayao-miyazakijohn-lasseter-press-conference.html

Also, Miramax... "arthouse"?

I'm just going by what Disney brands them as.

Anyways, to reiterate my point, which is all I was trying to say especially since I'm not a big Ghibli fan either, I know we're all made to think that Pixar is the greatest animation company to come out of America in decades and that John Lasseter is some kind of animation genius, but I can bet you that they are not the type of company that will ever release a Steve Purcell directed movie (if they even do that) with his weird brand of humor and timing intact along with his type of characters.

Edited by syntheticgerbil

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And either way, Lasseter did not have anything to do with the original Disney/Ghibli deal, which was my original point in that case. Even though he is a Miyazaki fan and has been involved with some of the dubs, he is still doing his job as a chief creative officer to offer the right kind of PR for Ponyo. Whether or not they are close friends, which I see as somewhat exaggerated, he is still doing his job.

I don't know nearly as much about all the backroom stuff being discussed here as others apparently do, and I'm also not entirely sure what's being debated, but I did notice this and figured I could contribute since I just read a Time Magazine article about Miyazaki.

Anyway it quotes Miyazaki as saying of Lasseter and Aardwolf's Nick Park, "My comrades in arms, in trying to keep good quality and commercially viable animation going."

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At the time of the deal there was only one theatrical release. Spirited Away did not exist at that point. All I see is a deal that was expanded upon, not drawn up as a simple one-off. You still have not provided sources that Miramax (as a separate company) had only a "one picture deal" and that "the relationship was ended" because of the sword.

I don't know what else to say. You've not done anything to contradict anything I've said except say you "believe" that it's an "extension" of the same deal... for which there is no evidence whatsoever (in fact the sales-agent for theatrical distribution of Ghibli films is now a totally different company! Tokuma don't deal with international theatrical distribution of Ghibli films, a French company called Wild Bunch does).

I've provided you with evidence that Lasseter is a massive champion of Miyazaki in the west, and even more talking about he's using his new power to give Ponyo the biggest theatrical release of any Miyazaki movie. I've proven that it's not even the same company distributing Ghibli films anymore.

I can't argue against cynicism.

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

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Most of Pixar and Ghibli's movies are great , but it's a bit of a wrong statement to summarize those companies to Miyazaki's and Lasseter's works, since I feel these studio's best pieces came respectively from Takahata and Stanton/Unkrich ... and anyway, there's a bunch of talented people that make these movies happened.

I hated Cars and I loved Bug's life and Toy story 2 (the best feature film they did so far, IMO), but when I look at the record of the co-directors of these movies vs. Lasseter's own, I can't help but credit them to these guys rather than him.

Plus, there's this weird visual homogeneity - mainly in character design - that came to be since Monster Inc. which I find strange when compared to the variety of styles you'd find in the artbooks. But, then again, this discrepancy is trye for most animated movies.

Anyway, for them to have let Sanders go to Dreamworks is really a big loss in my opinion.

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I've provided you with evidence that Lasseter is a massive champion of Miyazaki in the west, and even more talking about he's using his new power to give Ponyo the biggest theatrical release of any Miyazaki movie.

I'm kind of in a rush, so I didn't read the whole forum, but Lasseter has been a fan of Miyazaki for years and years. Everyone at Disney has. Bill Tiller: "I was lucky to have gone to a school that had such great story tellers for teachers, and one of them was the great Disney animator Glenn Keane. And during one of his classes he brought in a clip from an animated movie done by this Japanese director named Miyazaki. The scene was this beautiful bus stop in the rain where two girls are waiting for their father to return." (source).

Even though I do think that Lasster is NOT "the next Walt Disney", I do think he's a very talented director and has managed to constantly make and produce great films. Cars wasn't very good, but there's bound to be a clunker sometimes. And Pixar is a very collaborative environment; I remember someone saying that, if it weren't for the guilds, they would just put a list of everyone who worked on the movie (I guess like the way Valve does it).

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I'm getting towards the end of Episode 1 on TOMI -- just in time for Episode 2 -- what's everyone think of it now they've had time for the excitement to settle?

The level of polish is wonderful, but I'm not sure if I'm in love with it, yet...? How is everyone else feeling?

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Anyway it quotes Miyazaki as saying of Lasseter and Aardwolf's Nick Park, "My comrades in arms, in trying to keep good quality and commercially viable animation going."

Well on that I was going by the way some people debate how close their relationship really is beyond business matters. I don't know for sure either way.

I don't know what else to say. You've not done anything to contradict anything I've said except say you "believe" that it's an "extension" of the same deal... for which there is no evidence whatsoever (in fact the sales-agent for theatrical distribution of Ghibli films is now a totally different company! Tokuma don't deal with international theatrical distribution of Ghibli films, a French company called Wild Bunch does).

Okay, it still was not a one off deal, Disney still releases their films. No relationship was ended. You didn't prove either. You made that stuff up. Spirited Away, Ponyo, and Howl's Moving castle were all added to the original Disney/Ghibli deal as that link I showed you earlier indicates. The deal wasn't ended for a new deal to be made. Obviously, and this is where you really fail to pay attention, the Disney distribution of Ghibli films is still alive and well.

Also, in no way did you prove Miramax is a separate company from Disney except that you said they are in different buildings. You also failed to address that the original deal was made with Disney with Mononoke being released by Miramax in theaters, which is a key point you keep ignoring.

I've provided you with evidence that Lasseter is a massive champion of Miyazaki in the west, and even more talking about he's using his new power to give Ponyo the biggest theatrical release of any Miyazaki movie. I've proven that it's not even the same company distributing Ghibli films anymore.

Well er... except Disney still distributes them in the US, which is a major point you've overlooked. What does Wildbunch have to do with this anyway? Wildbunch is not their distributor for the whole world just Europe. The link you gave basically says they are still distributing for Europe (which it also notes they did during Spirited Away, before Tokuma went under) so stop making stuff up. With Tokuma going under, Ghibli came in control of themselves, essentially becoming "independent" as some say. They still obviously choose to work with Disney. The Disney/Ghibli deal is still very obviously ongoing whether Tokuma distributes or not.

Sounds like you have some kind of heroism attached to Lasseter though, especially indicated by your original sarcastic comment which started this mess. I've given more than enough reason *FOR ME* to dislike him and you can turn a blind eye if you want but I say the guy is a dick (sweaty and caustic), and you aren't changing my mind with making up facts and the Disney/Ghibli deal.

So in other words, is it *really* that hard to see why the guy wouldn't back a Steve Purcell type film?

I'm kind of in a rush, so I didn't read the whole forum, but Lasseter has been a fan of Miyazaki for years and years. Everyone at Disney has.

That's why earlier I said everyone who went to CalArts is in love with Miyazaki. It's standard fare, so telling me Lasseter is this huge fan means nothing. Just about everyone states the Miyazaki influence in the animation world.

Edited by syntheticgerbil

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I think it's awesome. It has some of that "new adventure" stuff I'm not that fond of, with symbol sequences and stuff like that, but they even manage to puzzle that, too, up nicely enough for it not to be lame. It's really good-looking, with the nice depth of field, excellent camera work and spectacular hand animation. I don't know if they decided to animate the characters' hands so well just because of the story, but it's most impressive.

I'm not a big fan (of the expression "not a big fan of", nor) of the constant mismatch between the lines you click on, and what the character says. The first time I selected a line I thought they were going for one of the ones where no matter what you choose the guy says something hilarious, and that I just didn't get it, but they do it all through the game. Sometimes Guybrush says what you select, and sometimes something that doesn't really match what you selected. I would prefer they did it like in the previous games.

But, as I said, I'm very impressed, and I'm looking forward to the next games. Tomorrow, is it, the next episode comes out?

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I'm not a big fan (of the expression "not a big fan of", nor) of the constant mismatch between the lines you click on, and what the character says. The first time I selected a line I thought they were going for one of the ones where no matter what you choose the guy says something hilarious, and that I just didn't get it, but they do it all through the game. Sometimes Guybrush says what you select, and sometimes something that doesn't really match what you selected. I would prefer they did it like in the previous games.
That is really my biggest tdown. I hope they stop doing that shiznit.

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That is really my biggest tdown. I hope they stop doing that shiznit.

Yeah, it's definitely funny sometimes, especially in Monkey Island 2 I seem to remember your line being changed when you were about to say something extremely inappropriate, but I agree that it's better to be use line change joke sparingly.

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I think it's awesome. It has some of that "new adventure" stuff I'm not that fond of, with symbol sequences and stuff like that, but they even manage to puzzle that, too, up nicely enough for it not to be lame. It's really good-looking, with the nice depth of field, excellent camera work and spectacular hand animation. I don't know if they decided to animate the characters' hands so well just because of the story, but it's most impressive.

I'm not a big fan (of the expression "not a big fan of", nor) of the constant mismatch between the lines you click on, and what the character says. The first time I selected a line I thought they were going for one of the ones where no matter what you choose the guy says something hilarious, and that I just didn't get it, but they do it all through the game. Sometimes Guybrush says what you select, and sometimes something that doesn't really match what you selected. I would prefer they did it like in the previous games.

But, as I said, I'm very impressed, and I'm looking forward to the next games. Tomorrow, is it, the next episode comes out?

Nope, it's out today! (Although I've yet to get an email letting me know.)

http://www.telltalegames.com/ (It's on their start page.)

I have to say that the story and characters haven't totally grabbed me yet, and I'm utterly confused as to what the point of the Marquis de Singe sequence was... But I haven't completed it yet, so maybe more is revealed.

Does anyone else have difficulty understanding what people are saying? :/

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

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Okay, it still was not a one off deal, Disney still releases their films. No relationship was ended. The deal wasn't ended for a new deal to be made. Obviously, and this is where you really fail to pay attention, the Disney distribution of Ghibli films is still alive and well.

It's a deal with a whole new company.

Well er... except Disney still distributes them in the US, which is a major point you've overlooked. What does Wildbunch have to do with this anyway? Wildbunch is not their distributor for the whole world just Europe. The link you gave basically says they are still distributing for Europe (which it also notes they did during Spirited Away, before Tokuma went under) so stop making stuff up.

I'm not making anything up. Jeez.

Ever heard of the French sales & production company Wild Bunch? I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer to that question is “Yes, I have!”, as they’re responsible for the international distribution of Studio Ghibli.

FYI, they're a sales company for Studio Ghibli. They don't directly release their stuff, they sell it to companies that want to release it in their territory, like Disney. In the UK, for example, a company called Optimum usually releases studio Ghibli stuff. Oddly enough, Disney are releasing Ponyo in France, for example.

Disney don't have any exclusive rights to the theatrical distribution of Studio Ghibli stuff, each film is sold on a per film, per territory basis. So NO, John Lasseter isn't just doing his job which was started by The Weinsteins.

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I already like Episode 2 a lot more than the first one! The first puzzle was fun, and the whole

LeChuck wanting to figure out things on his own

had me laughing.

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I already like Episode 2 a lot more than the first one! The first puzzle was fun, and the whole --- had me laughing.

Ooh! Looking forward to it more now. It's weird how TellTale's games get better as the series progresses, I hope TOMI is no different!

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Well, I finished it two days ago (had to review for Mixnmojo). It's amazing. If they keep it up with the last three episodes then TMI will end-up being the best of the Monkey Island games.

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Goddamit, I'm stuck on the very first puzzle :

How am I supposed to untied the rope near the fish barrel ?

Gimme a hint, just a hint.

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That is really my biggest tdown. I hope they stop doing that shiznit.

Holy mackerel, I had totally forgotten to go back and read all the comments after having played the game. Obviously you all had already written great little reviews that explained my exact sentiments much better than I ever could

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