Life

[Badfinger]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around someone being transgender. To explain what I mean, while I'm heterosexual, the concept of homosexuality or bisexuality is easy for me to grasp and understand. I feel certain ways towards certain people, and on a physiological level some of those feelings and tendencies I have no control over. I'm programmed that way. Homosexual people are exactly the same, they just have different preferences.

 

I have no concept though, of feeling like I've been born with the wrong genitalia for my actual gender or that I do not belong to a gender. This is to say that I don't have an issue with someone being transgender or that I don't understand the concept of it. I just have a frustrating time in my head of grasping what it is and what it's like and how to approach it. I don't believe I have anyone particularly close to me that is transgender.

[Apple Cider]

It's not always "wrong genitalia" (and there's a HUGE amount of fixation on trans folk's genitalia which is weird) Dysphoria is more that your body doesn't always match how you feel it should look for how you conceptualize your own gender identity. Not all trans people have dysphoria, by the way. It's just that you feel your assigned gender doesn't match what gender you are. 

 

Something my friend said is that even if you are cis, sit down and think about your gender for a while and if it's something that's "you" rather than taking being cis for granted. Even though I'm a cis woman, it still feels good to sit and think "does 'being a woman' still feel like something I am?" and it is! But if it started not to be, might be a time to think about that at length.

[N1njaSquirrel]

I think the point is that it means either neither or both pronouns. Depending on how someone wants to interpret the usage.

I guess there are people who view themselves as strictly gender neutral but usage in the way I initially presented was for the purpose of avoiding to misgender the person as explicitly he or she.

I guess thinking about it they and them isn't so bad of a term.

I didn't put it as the primary way to go about things more as a supplementary thing to consider.

But if it is incorrect usage then I won't use/advocate for it.

You mean replacing the first letter with a "z"? No, that's not what's happening. It's a bit confusing because "zir" seems to map phonetically to "her" rather than "his", but actually it stands alone from either (or represents both). "Ze" works better" because it rhymes with both, although I suppose one could see it as mapping closer either closer to "he" because it only has two letters or "she" because the z sounds similar to the z, but again it's intended to be an alternative to or umbrella term for both.

ze = he/she

zir = his/her

This isn't really selling the particular words well.

I usually use 'they' to refer to a person that I don't know and thus can't be aware of their gender. It does feel distancing though (I'd argue less so than an exotice fabricated word but that's just my gut reaction) so I usually try to avoid gendered pronouns. I'm generally pretty good at it? I learned long ago to not say people's names that much so it's less conspicuous when I don't remember and intentionally avoid saying it so I think I just adapted that practice to pronouns too. I could stand to be more conscious of it though.

Ohh riiiight I get it now. Sorry, I'm a complete idiot (but what's new eh?) Thanks guys!

 

It's not always "wrong genitalia" (and there's a HUGE amount of fixation on trans folk's genitalia which is weird)

 

Is it weird? I don't think so. I see your point, that it's more a state of mind than a phyisical representation of gender, but I still don't think it's a weird thing for people to be fixated on.

[tegan]

I'm making gradual steps away from job hunting in Moncton* toward apartment hunting in Halifax. I was listening to the most recent Danswers earlier and someone wrote in with my exact problem: They like living where they do now, but they feel the urge to move on. The Dans helped me realize that I think it's worth taking the plunge and moving, even if I'm not really sure how things will work out. I also found out that my one good friend in Moncton is moving to Germany in May, so it's not like there's much of a reason to stick around. Besides, there are way more jobs and better resources for LGBT people.

Any advice? I've been gradually moving further between each apartment each time I've moved, but this is my first trans-provincial deal and I dunno what I have to sort out legally first.

 

*Must be bilingual! Must be able to lift fifty pounds! Must provide own transportation! Lowest minimum wage in the country! EVERYTHING IS CALL CENTERS!

[tberton]

I don't have any specific advice, other than that you should definitely do it, but as far as I know there shouldn't be any legal impediments. I've lived in Ontario my whole live, though.

[Bjorn]

From everything you've described, a move sounds like a good idea, honestly.  I don't have any pertinent advice though, I've never moved inside Canada, and its been years since I had to relocate any significant distance.

[Chris]

It's not always "wrong genitalia" (and there's a HUGE amount of fixation on trans folk's genitalia which is weird) Dysphoria is more that your body doesn't always match how you feel it should look for how you conceptualize your own gender identity. Not all trans people have dysphoria, by the way. It's just that you feel your assigned gender doesn't match what gender you are. 

 

I apologize if this question is stupid for some reason, but what are some cases where this doesn't map to genitalia? (I'm not saying there are none, I just don't know.) Isn't that how your gender is assigned at birth, and therefore what causes the assignation to match or not match to your internal conception of yourself? 

 

I could imagine that an example of this would be people who are born with sex organs associated with more than one gender, but I imagine this is statistically relatively uncommon and your post makes me think that's probably not the only case you mean.

[Codicier]

As some one so elegantly put it recently 'sorry about the total shitpost incoming'

I had a very bad Monday last week, for a while I wasn't going to talk about it at all but after taking to a friend who's been through the same I've decided to one because I've had time to process it and although it's not a big deal compared to what some people have been through I think it's something that talking about might help other people who experience it perhaps not feel as isolated, and putting it down in writing might help me.

So anyways, at around 02:00 gmt while trying to sleep I had a serve panic attack.

My heart was going like crazy, I was breathing uncontrollably fast, yet it felt like I still couldnt breath, my mind honestly was convinced I was gonna pop my clogs.

I'd never had one before although I had been dealing with anxiety and lack of sleep for months.

I managed to totter out of bed and grab a envelope that happened to be lying on my desk and to use it along with some breathing exercises to like to bring my hyperventilating under control.

The trigger event seemed to be that I was so exhausted that I had a moment when I slipped out of consciousness then back, the moment I returned I felt confused paniced and the attack began.

Because even after I hour I still wasn't abke to bring my breathing & heart rate fully under control I ended up in A&E (which was thankfully deserted), where I was put on a heart monitor and kept under observation until 7 in the morning where I was discharged with a strong sedative to allow me to sleep (which I did untill close to 4 in the afternoon).

The past week has been about slowly with the help of medication dragging my sleep back to something approaching normal, which also making sure I rest as long as I have to every night (no trying to get away with 5 hours sleep).

I'm recovering but I think in many ways this has shocked me into realising that trying to fight my way through my anxiety and insomnia through good practice and habits alone (I go for a walk or run daily, eat healthily, and try to do stretches and breathing exercises in the evening) currently may not be enough, I may need to just accept that medication I something I'm going to need to use untill I can properly self right.

Anyways shit rant over.

[Mawd]

I found out that my life is going to consist of a bit more compromise and financial struggle than it usually does.

[mikemariano]

EDIT: This should be in the Twin Peaks thread.

[Merus]

The thing I wonder about transgender people, and this is probably going to sound offensive, is whether there's a relationship between them and otakukin and otherkin. Otakukin are patently ridiculous, yet otakukin self-report as being very definitely Sephiroth or Goku or someone from a fictional medium.

 

Is there a difference in the self-reporting, or a difference of degree? (Otakukin and otherkin often have their self-image bleed over into their personalities, which doesn't seem to be much of a factor for transgender people, but my experience is limited.)

[Mangela Lansbury]

I apologize if this question is stupid for some reason, but what are some cases where this doesn't map to genitalia? (I'm not saying there are none, I just don't know.) Isn't that how your gender is assigned at birth, and therefore what causes the assignation to match or not match to your internal conception of yourself?

I could imagine that an example of this would be people who are born with sex organs associated with more than one gender, but I imagine this is statistically relatively uncommon and your post makes me think that's probably not the only case you mean.

I have a friend who started doing drag. She got really into it really fast, doing shows at least once a week and spending a lot of time on her act. Over time, she stopped doing drag as much but still wore the breastform, still wore women's clothing, and still wanted to be called by her female name. It's been a few years now and she still has no interest in transitioning physically, but she's still a woman. She's comfortable with her body right now, so she's sticking with what works for her.

[Chris]

I have a friend who started doing drag. She got really into it really fast, doing shows at least once a week and spending a lot of time on her act. Over time, she stopped doing drag as much but still wore the breastform, still wore women's clothing, and still wanted to be called by her female name. It's been a few years now and she still has no interest in transitioning physically, but she's still a woman. She's comfortable with her body right now, so she's sticking with what works for her.

 

That makes sense to me—I didn't mean to imply that all trans people would have physical transition as an automatic goal. I just mean, the thing that causes their identified gender to be one thing and their originally-assigned gender as another was that the assignation was based on physical characteristics.

[Bjorn]

Since it's kind of relevant to the discussion going on here, we went to a public screening of Paris is Burning this evening, a documentary on the drag balls in New York during the mid to late 80s.  It's really damn good, and quite powerful.  In relation to this discussion, part of the evolution of the balls was a steadily increasing number of categories for competition, to accommodate the wide array of different identities people have, and the kinds of gender identities/presentations people have to present as in different parts of their lives for survival or safety vs the identities they would prefer to present. 

[slime]

The thing I wonder about transgender people, and this is probably going to sound offensive, is whether there's a relationship between them and otakukin and otherkin. Otakukin are patently ridiculous, yet otakukin self-report as being very definitely Sephiroth or Goku or someone from a fictional medium.

 

Is there a difference in the self-reporting, or a difference of degree? (Otakukin and otherkin often have their self-image bleed over into their personalities, which doesn't seem to be much of a factor for transgender people, but my experience is limited.)

 

I think there's a lot of material online discussing the comparison of trans to *kin - here's one blog post I read a few months ago that talks about something like that: http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2012/08/being-a-woman-also-isnt-like-being-napoleon/

[Merus]

I think there's a lot of material online discussing the comparison of trans to *kin - here's one blog post I read a few months ago that talks about something like that: http://freethoughtblogs.com/zinniajones/2012/08/being-a-woman-also-isnt-like-being-napoleon/

 

I was actually mentally linking otakukin to the Napoleon complex and should have twigged that I've read a rebuttal to that comparison before.

[Nachimir]

I just mean, the thing that causes their identified gender to be one thing and their originally-assigned gender as another was that the assignation was based on physical characteristics.

 

It can be a lot more complex than that, because sometimes physical characteristics are ambiguous at birth. It might already have been posted here, but this is a great article on gender complexity that goes through some of the different ways that can manifest:

http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943

 

So, kind of what you said above, but sometimes it's complete guesswork, or bad parenting, or a mistake, etc.

[Griddlelol]

It's not always "wrong genitalia" (and there's a HUGE amount of fixation on trans folk's genitalia which is weird) Dysphoria is more that your body doesn't always match how you feel it should look for how you conceptualize your own gender identity. Not all trans people have dysphoria, by the way. It's just that you feel your assigned gender doesn't match what gender you are. 

 

Something my friend said is that even if you are cis, sit down and think about your gender for a while and if it's something that's "you" rather than taking being cis for granted. Even though I'm a cis woman, it still feels good to sit and think "does 'being a woman' still feel like something I am?" and it is! But if it started not to be, might be a time to think about that at length.

 

This is something I really struggle to wrap my head around because I'm cis. I can't empathise with dysphoria because I've not even close to experienced it. I'm me, I don't feel like I need to be someone or something else. 

 

I don't even believe I could sit and think "does 'being a man' still feel like something I am?" I barely understand the question.

 

I assume this is why transphobia so so prevalent, it's impossible for some people to understand. While homosexuality is pretty easy to understand because everyone has experienced being attracted to someone that their peers aren't (or vice versa).

[Nachimir]

I too am cis, but have felt in the past like a barely balancing tower of meat and neuroses. I don't know what dysphoria is like, but I guess I have more experience than most of how mismatched yet persistent bits of self can be. That's bad enough when it's chunks of personality, I can't know but imagine it's much worse when a contradiction like that's reflected all the way from pervasive societal gender roles right down to your genetic makeup.

 

I've wondered the same things as Merus, but knowing the complex preceding biological conditions, knowing plenty of trans people through work, and having at least one friend who's transitioning, it seems far more important to support them and offer an open ear.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Does anyone know if there's good writings about how and why people are hostile to their categorisation of the world being challenged? It seems like that's part of transphobia, people don't want to accept that there is more to gender than a binary system. Not always that it's just hard to grasp, it seems like an affront to some. I'm curious if there's been a good exploration of that.

[Griddlelol]

I've wondered the same things as Merus, but knowing the complex preceding biological conditions, knowing plenty of trans people through work, and having at least one friend who's transitioning, it seems far more important to support them and offer an open ear.

 

I think that's it, I don't need to understand. I just have to be supportive if I meet a trans person.

[deleted user]

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[dibs]

In regards to gender neutral words. I think pushing for entirely new words is a bit of a fruitless endeavour. Typically I always just use they're, their, there, and such.

[Roderick]

In regards to gender neutral words. I think pushing for entirely new words is a bit of a fruitless endeavour. Typically I always just use they're, their, they, and such.

 

"How are you, such and such?"

[Griddlelol]

In regards to gender neutral words. I think pushing for entirely new words is a bit of a fruitless endeavour. Typically I always just use they're, their, they, and such.

 

Basically my original point. I'd feel awkward saying "ze" and it'll never leave my mouth.