Movie/TV recommendations

[Twig]

I agree with the hypercompetency, but I disagree pretty strongly with this!

the antihero thing falls apart almost immediately, like it ought to do

I don't think either approach is wrong. Breaking Bad works for me in part because it doesn't fall apart. 

[Gormongous]

I agree with the hypercompetency, but I disagree pretty strongly with this!

I don't think either approach is wrong. Breaking Bad works for me in part because it doesn't fall apart. 

 

Fair enough. I had it worded much less strongly but then changed it because I'm a mess. I think I agree with you too, I really just mean more that it's nice to see an "antihero" who's a bit of a fuckup in Fargo.

[Nachimir]

Hence the scare quotes.

Oh, sure. We totally agree on that, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I like to read Walt as someone hypercompetent who's always been penned in, and only wakes up in his desperation. I don't think I could name much TV that doesn't require suspension of disbelief or/and ignorance though. Meaning, we still agree I think

[Merus]

Saw the Grand Budapest Hotel and noticed for the first time how much Wes Anderson uses right camera angles. In this the camera was always at a right angle (with possible up/down tilt) and could only turn 90 degrees in place or pan left/right/forward/backward in a straight line, wih only a couple of exceptions I think. In retrospect, his previous films (I haven't seen all) also used that a lot but not exclusively as here. The hotel was almost a dollhouse and the whole world felt like a projection of the real world with half a dimension lost.

 

I liked the artifice of the main storyline of Grand Budapest, given that it's a story inside a story inside a Wes Anderson film. The punk girl bookending the movie feels more genuine than Wes Anderson's characters usually are; a great contrast to the very theatrical characters in the main plot.

[Erkki]

So I've been on an Adventure Time binge for a few weeks and finally caught up with the current season. That is one awesome cartoon show! Discovered it through Pendleton Ward's involvement in Double Fine's Amnesia Fortnight and I kind of immediately liked his sense of humor.

[Frenetic Pony]

Watched The Desolation of Smaug again (Blu Ray and all that).

 

And that movie is a damned fun ride all throughout. A little thin on the plot verse action, but the fantastic set pieces, amazing visuals, and solid score keep the entire thing moving all throughout. It's a damned shame part one really needs a lot of editing work, because part two really works well for the most part. A lot better than say, Amazing Spiderman 2 if the people I know and reviews are to be believed.

 

Jackson gets a lot of recognition of his visual style and action scenes. But he's also got a particular talent for putting together a complex set of differing characters and interwoven plotlines and perspectives. Hell I'd say he's so good at it that no on even thinks to comment on it, which is probably about as big a compliment as you can get when it comes to that kind of management. The only time you ever see it otherwise is for people complaining about it not being good enough (Nolan's Inception and etc.)

 

Now if someone could just keep the man out of the damned editing room...

[Ben X]

I watched John Dies At The End and thought it was terrible. I haven't read the book(s?), but I found the film to be an unfunny mess of half-developed ideas with a bland lead, a bland smirky second, and a mannequin (figuratively) love interest. A massive waste of all the ace character actors, in favour of saying "hey, look at how many weird things we can cram into 100 minutes!"

[Merus]

Watched The Desolation of Smaug again (Blu Ray and all that).

 

And that movie is a damned fun ride all throughout. A little thin on the plot verse action, but the fantastic set pieces, amazing visuals, and solid score keep the entire thing moving all throughout. It's a damned shame part one really needs a lot of editing work, because part two really works well for the most part. A lot better than say, Amazing Spiderman 2 if the people I know and reviews are to be believed.

 

Jackson gets a lot of recognition of his visual style and action scenes. But he's also got a particular talent for putting together a complex set of differing characters and interwoven plotlines and perspectives. Hell I'd say he's so good at it that no on even thinks to comment on it, which is probably about as big a compliment as you can get when it comes to that kind of management. The only time you ever see it otherwise is for people complaining about it not being good enough (Nolan's Inception and etc.)

 

Now if someone could just keep the man out of the damned editing room...

 

This is fascinating because I was really bored in Desolation of Smaug, and a big reason why is because Jackson overstuffed the movie with lots of scenes that weren't relevant and didn't go anywhere. I thought part one needed some editing, but it was relatively constrained so that many scenes felt like they was driving things forward. Part two had the barrel escape, the heroic forging sequence, and lots of waffle in between.

[Brannigan]

I watched John Dies At The End and thought it was terrible. I haven't read the book(s?), but I found the film to be an unfunny mess of half-developed ideas with a bland lead, a bland smirky second, and a mannequin (figuratively) love interest. A massive waste of all the ace character actors, in favour of saying "hey, look at how many weird things we can cram into 100 minutes!"

They pretty much tried to do a best parts of the book thing. I had fun with it. The book doesnt have that much of the love interest either. That said the book is also really disjointed since its mostly short stories stitched together.

[Justin Leego]

Hello good TV watching people.

I come in search of recommendations for someone that was hugely into The West Wing and The Wire but, post-Breaking Bad, has grown tired of a trend for Machiavellian characterization à la House of Cards. Game of Thrones is not of interest either.

Warehouse 13 came up around halfway through this thread and could be good. Are there any other lesser known series (or miniseries) worth watching that spring to mind?

[elmuerte]

If you like series with "wing" in the title, I can recommend you Green Wing.

 

I watch Warehouse 13, but I don't like it much. I enjoyed the other SyFy series "Eureka" much more. But if you like the Warehouse 13 kind of stuff, I can also recommend you Haven and The Finder (only 1 season :/)

If you want a mini series, I can recommend "The Lost Room".

[Roderick]

I saw the first two seasons of Warehouse 13. It's kind of okay, but not great. At worst it's trite, at best it's soapy fun. It's sort of the spiritual sequel to the mini-series The Lost Room, which is terrific and you should probably watch instead.

 

[EDIT] I only skimmed through ElMuerte's post, and I wrote a duplicate.

[Twig]

I watched a bunch of Warehouse 13. It's pretty okay. If you like dumb sci-fi trash that's not trying to be anything more than dumb sci-fi trash, you'll probably like that. There's a mini-series called The Lost Room, though, which is really good and you might just be better off watching that.

EDIT: WHOA WHAT A CUH-RAZY COINKY-DINK

[SecretAsianMan]

Man I love the Lost Room.  That was such a great little series.  I also agree about Warehouse 13, dumb cheesy fun.  Just try not to think about it too hard or your head will explode.

[Merus]

The only recent show I can think of that preserves the twisty, serious nature of those two shows would be maybe Damages? The main character is still a jerk but the show acknowledges that this isn't something people are willing to ignore just because she's powerful and useful.

[BigJKO]

Just watch The West Wing again! It's so good..

[Ben X]

I don't see how Warehouse 13 has any similarity to The Wire or The West Wing! You're essentially asking for ensemble socio-political dramas with no dragons, right? I actually can't think of any off the top of my head. Maybe David Simon's other series, Homicide and Treme? If you don't mind spaceships and mythology, Battlestar Galactica maybe.

 

[EDIT: I cheated and used Google. Not all of these are a perfect match and I haven't seen most of them, but: Boardwalk Empire, Oz, Southland, The Shield (which is like the pulp version of The Wire), Rome, Mad Men, Band Of Brothers, The Sopranos, Deadwood] 

 

I saw Neighbors (aka Bad Neighbours for those countries who might think it's a big-screen outing for the popular Australian soap opera) yesterday. It was entertaining. Slow start and a flat finish, but the central 'escalating pranks' section is good fun. It feels very formulaic, in both the 'jocks vs X' and the Seth Rogen 'manchild grows up' set-up, and the few moments where they let a bit of improv into the film fall flat, but it manages to stay funny and interesting. Zac Efron is really good as well. I don't think I've seen him in anything else, but he manages to turn 'lead jock' into a multi-faceted, sympathetic character and play a load of different notes.

[Justin Leego]

Thanks all! Looks like The Lost Room is a bit of a winner then.
 

Just watch The West Wing again! It's so good..

 
Agreed - just coming off the back of the millionth series re-watch. The Newsroom might have been next up, were it not so Sorkin^Sorkin.
 
 

I don't see how Warehouse 13 has any similarity to The Wire or The West Wing! You're essentially asking for ensemble socio-political dramas with no dragons, right? I actually can't think of any off the top of my head. Maybe David Simon's other series, Homicide and Treme? If you don't mind spaceships and mythology, Battlestar Galactica maybe.

 
Ta Ben! You're right, both The West Wing and The Wire are serious political dramas and incredibly well produced, but one of the key percieved differences, in this case, is that WW arcs usually have a positive outcome. Would Treme and Homicide be more in line with The Wire in that respect?

 

Oh, in regard to Fargo,

 

there was a good article about how Lester Nygaard is the best deconstruction in years for the "empowering" Heisenberg-style antihero that's all the rage these days.

 

Another promising candidate!

[Ben X]

WW arcs usually have a positive outcome. Would Treme and Homicide be more in line with The Wire in that respect?

 

I haven't seen Treme and it's been years since I watched Homicide, but I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

[Merus]

I saw Neighbors (aka Bad Neighbours for those countries who might think it's a big-screen outing for the popular Australian soap opera) yesterday.

Neighbours (the popular Australian soap opera)

Neighbours (the popular Australian soap opera)

Neighbours... popular

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN

Also, how the hell did Australia get too good for Neighbours before the UK did

[Ben X]

I'm not sure how popular it is now, but it managed to survive a move from the BBC to another channel. It got massively popular over here in the 80s by being on one of only 3 or 4 channels, twice a day. No matter how successful he gets, Alan Dale will always be known to generations of Brits as Jim From Neighbours.

 

I always wanted to see a spin-off sitcom where Harold and Lou move to America to be closer to Lou's now-college-going daughter (Lolly?), and get into scrapes and on each other's nerves. It would be called The Oz Couple.

[Gormongous]

Oh, in regard to Fargo, another promising candidate!

 

Just to make sure, I'm not saying Fargo isn't dark. In many ways, it's darker than Game of Thrones, because both have about equivalent moments of evil and brutality, but in Game of Thrones they're part of the world and in Fargo they're disruptive acts that come out of nowhere.

 

If we're considering all the items from Ben's list of "ensemble socio-political dramas with no dragons", then I can't recommend Deadwood enough. It's about the micro-politics of a frontier community and almost every bit of drama in the show comes from the intersection between two different characters, if that makes any sense.

[Nachimir]

Neighbours totally peaked with the plane crash episode.

Ten minutes of weepy characters declaring how much they love each other in descending plane, then: cut to peaceful shot of the moon for a few seconds. Cut back to survivors in water.

[Gormongous]

On another kind of note, I'm enjoying the new Cosmos as we enter the final third of its run, but I still have huge problems with how it handles the history of science (when it actually does handle the history of science).

 

Neil deGrasse Tyson (and more probably Ann Druyan) hammers every episode that science is the only belief system with a framework that's self-critical and self-improving. In addition to or maybe even because of this opinion, they argue that science is the only belief system that's really interested in the truth. The problem is that the show only depicts two sets of circumstances in the history of science: someone making a new discovery using science as a belief system, or someone being proven wrong (and hence, in the show's often unfortunate choice of words, "afraid" or "ignorant") by science. Never are people who proved something "right" with science that later turned out to be wrong included under the aegis of science; in fact, when the person being proven wrong by science is also a scientist, the show usually takes more than a few sentences to explain how they weren't "faithful" to science for a variety of reasons. It must be nice to have a belief system that exists independently from all its constituents and that is always able to tell only the truth because anyone who uses it to prove something untrue is just doing it wrong and therefore doesn't count as using it.

 

But the bigger problem I have with Cosmos relates more to one important front of the culture war waged for the past few decades in the United States. The show spends an inordinate amount of time working to discredit other belief systems. DeGrasse Tyson (and again, probably Ann Druyan) says over and over that religion is superstition ruled by fear and ignorance. Because religion is just uncritical irrationality, progress is not possible through it, only through science, which is the only belief system interested in the truth. Unfortunately, to drive home this point, the show has to whitewash the religious beliefs and motivations held by the vast majority of its human subjects. I've noticed that medieval contributions to science go scrupulously unmentioned, because it's impossible to ignore that they were all made by monks and friars, but in its very first episode the show tries to use the trial and execution of Giordano Bruno to illustrate how revolutionary the birth of modern science was and how threatening it became to other belief systems. According to Cosmos, Bruno was burned at the stake in 1600 for claiming that the stars in the sky were suns with planets that had other people living on them, which he did, and not for claiming that Christ was a charlatan and even Satan would go to heaven on Judgment Day, which he also did and about which the Church actually cared. The attempts to stack the deck become the worst in the third episode, which is all about how the medieval mindset, being religious in nature, was incurious and static, while the modern mindset, being rational in nature, is the exact opposite. As an example of the modern, we are given Isaac Newton, who created the science of physics and singlehandedly sparked the Scientific Revolution, except that Newton was deeply religious, to the point of fanaticism, and firmly believed he was expanding, not overturning, the human understanding of God's creation. Oh, we hear a little bit about his obsession with alchemy and numerology, as anecdotes that prove Newton's substantial curiosity yet somehow not his "medieval" mindset, but otherwise Newton is reinvented as the consummate rational scientist who'd be right at home working on the Manhattan Project.

 

There hasn't been anything as bad since, but the show still keeps doing stuff like it in little ways and it's really the worst. I know that science education is being threatened all across America and that Cosmos has to be about convincing people of its desirability and utility, but I'm really bothered by how dishonest it feels it has to be in order to do so. In its effort to score points with young people and tar Young Earth creationists, it's become more of a show about how we're all such smart little monkeys, rather than how vast and wondrous a place the universe is. I find it really off-putting, to be honest, and that's speaking as a staunchly rationalist agnostic.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Tyson's pretty much an idiot when it comes to anything except telling everyone how amazing science is and how shit everything else is. Listen to this podcast at 20:19 if you want to hear him 1) not understand anything about philosophy, and 2) not let that stop him from saying philosophy is a worthless waste of time that will "mess you up." Tyson thinks maybe there's too much question asking in philosophy, and that we shouldn't concern ourselves with "the meaning of meaning," and that philosophers are distracted by their questions and can't move forwards, whereas the scientist discards these distractions and simply moves forwards and makes progress.