Somebody justify Beyond Good & Evil to me

[Steve]

I think I played about halfway through the game. I thought the world was shallow and lacked real depth or background-- we've got a world full of half-human half-animal hybrids. A young woman named Jade, seemingly one of the only full-humans to exist on this world, is improbably a photojournalist as well as martial artist. She and a pigman (her "uncle" if I remember?) for some reason run an orphanage for young half-humans who have--for some reason--been orphaned. Aliens have invaded the planet. There is a generic "resistance," all aspects of which are fairly indeterminate. The entire set-up feels completely arbitrary to me, and if I play one game where you have to "JOIN THE REBELLION!!!" I'm going to scream.

Then there's the gameplay, which is an exact carbon copy of Ocarina of Time's, down to the "here's what you still need to gather" screen, but with more widget-collecting and a more linear structure.

I got to the part where a braindamaged knight in full plate armor (?) working for the Queen (or something?) joined up with me, and I just quit. Then I returned it to EB.

I only bring this up because BG&E apparently motivated Peter Jackson to push for Ancel & Co. to handle the King Kong game, and it seems to be a sacred cow around here like Ico, Psychonauts, Out of this World, old Lucasarts adventures, and a number of other "game critics' games." But I hated it.

I'm not (only) trying to be contrarian. I'd honestly like to know why you guys love it so much. What am I missing?

[JimmyTheFish]

Why does it matter? You already returned it.

[Dingo Chavez]

I liked Beyond Good & Evil quite a bit. It is a near complete Ocarina clone when it comes to gameplay (except for the boat moments), but you can say that every 3D platform game is a Mario 64 clone, it doesn't mean it's bad, it's all about the quality of the game. At least they're copying something great.

What I found overrated is the story, it was alright, but nothing special. And there was far too many stelth moments.

And there's no such thing as something that everyone likes, so it's understandable that you didn't like it, you do have an opinion after all.

[Steve]

Why does it matter? You already returned it.

That's not the point, I just want to hear other people's opinions.

[Sirus]

Actually I found the gameplay to be better than OoT. It's just really damn fun and there's a lot of variety in the gameplay. But then, the first time I played it I rented it and said "WTF is this crap?" but when I bought it and took the time to enjoy it I found it to be really fun.

[Chris]

http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=34

I don't remember exactly what that review says, but with the review itself and all the second opinions there should be plenty there to elaborate on just what we all love so much about BGE.

[miffy495]

You seem to be focusing a bit much on just how silly the set up is. And yeah, it is kind of a stupid and random thing, but I found that to be a part of the charm. It's kind of like in the Simpsons where the town is alternatively next to a mountain, on the ocean, in the middle of the wilderness, or wherever that week's story requires that they be. Just let the inconsistencies slide and let yourself get sucked into the world and it's a lot more fun.

Personally, I found that the action got quite repetetive, and the story was kind of cookie-cutter-ish. What kept me involved and loving the game were the characters. Any boring rehash of the same story can be made great if you have fascinating, well rounded characters, and that was what made the game good for me. It's a very outlandish game, and quite love-it-or-hate-it. If you couldn't get into it, that's fine. But I'd say that the majority of thumbs are very much niche gamers, and BG&E is very much a niche game. There ya have it.

[Jake]

Man... Steve... "It has a wacky premise and plays like OOT! In the trash with you!" Wha?

BG&E seems to rub just as many people the wrong way as it does ensnare people in its web of awesome. And about 30,000 times more people than those two groups combined just dont give a shit in the first place. Oh well.

[Steve]

http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=34

hurrrrrrr maybe I should've checked for a review on this very site before going off on a rant.

Now I feel dumb.

[David]

I have yet to read an article on Idle Thumbs all the way through. Especially the ones I've written.

[Tanukitsune]

I don't see why using a similar or the same gameplay as another game is a bad thing. If it's a good game play, that is... (Psychonauts uses a similar gameplay if I'm not mistaken.)

And you quit just when the game gets really interesting...

The story really starts to unfold from that point...

[Marek]

Eh, the story in BG&E is pretty unremarkable. It's the sort of story you might find in the average cartoon on TV or something. It works alright, but you can see everything coming miles away.

No, the magic of BG&E lies in the way this world has been brought to screen, the way the characters were designed and written, and the wonderful feeling of exploration you get from it all.

It was nice re-reading our review of it. Jacques Cousteau is hilarious.

[baconian]

... it seems to be a sacred cow around here like Ico, Psychonauts, Out of this World, old Lucasarts adventures, and a number of other "game critics' games." But I hated it.

So Idlethumbs should recant and give up these false idols? IT's a gathering of the seemingly few gamers who have the appreciation of those games in common, and that's why they're here. If you didn't enjoy ICO, you're probably in the wrong place. This isn't a flame, by the way. I'm just trying to defend an aesthetic that I see in danger.

[Steve]

If you didn't enjoy ICO, you're probably in the wrong place.

Oh hell no. You did not just tell me that I don't like Ico.

I wasn't saying that I DIDN'T like the rest of the games mentioned there. In fact, I love all of those games, myself being a big fan of "games critics' games"--some of my other favorites like System Shock 2, Thief, and No One Lives Forever would fall into this category as well. What I wondered was why BGE was included along with them.

I would hope I'm not "in the wrong place" at Idle Thumbs, since I write for it.

[Thrik]

So you didn't like it. What do you want us to say? That you're wrong? That your opinions of games are totally flawed? That you have no right to call yourself a gamer?

BGAE is so well loved quite simply because of how well it's all put together, and how immersive the general atmosphere of the game is. If you didn't feel that way while playing it, well okay, fair enough. There's no hidden aspect to the game that you missed and that we're all aware of, it evidently just didn't click. It happens.

Just like some people have played Grim Fandango, then come up to me and been all "that was a bit shit". Well okay, actually, I don't think that has ever happened. But yes, shame you didn't like BGAE.

[Spaff]

BG&E is a fun game. Whether you happen to like it or not, I don't think it needs to be 'justified'. The title of this thread is really fucking annoying.

It appealed to me because of the art style, the characters, the music and the gameplay. I really don't care if the gameplay was a carbon copy of OOT, because it worked in BG&E, and made it fun. Oh, also, I rather liked the world it was set in.

If anything needs to be justified it's your attack on BG&E... at least give it some credit. I'll beat you up with drugs. Ready to slap bitch? I'm going to start capitalizing the first three letters of your surname because I've been reading about children reading about other adults reading about children playing a game about bullying other children.

To a degree, I understand why you dislike the RESISTANCE!!! plotline. On the other hand, you returned the fecking game to EB you disliked it so much which shows you had no love for it. I can't even begin to describe how fucking much that itches at my soul. Urghhh.

In answer to your question, I don't know what you are missing, but feckin jesus, I'd really start trying to find out ASAP if I were you. Oh man I could have been wittier there and said something like, 'You are missing A LOT'.

-Yufster

[Marek]

See? You've made Yufster angry.

[Spaff]

What am I missing?

A LOT.

Other possible suggestions:

'A BRAIN.'

'BRAIN CELLS.'

'YOUR COPY OF BG&E.'

-Yufster

[Steve]

I'll beat you up with drugs. Ready to slap bitch?

Hahah!!!

[Intrepid Homoludens]

It's simple, really. BG&E had an endearing style to it, you felt the love the devs had for making it, the gameworld smiled at you and you could smile back. It wasn't meant to be an incredibly 'hardcore' experience, no. Instead if felt more like, say, an indie animated adventure feature film about a special young woman, her destiny, a planet on the verge of destruction, ecology, orphaned children, friendship, and sacrifice. Maybe you were expecting way too much more of it than I did, I dunno. I think it was one of the most endearing gaming experiences I've ever had, myself.

[Chris]

Yes, I agree. The game really just had an overall amazing vibe to it. I feel like practically any frame of that game could be screenshotted and used as promotional material, everything just came together so well.

[manny_c44]

I didn't like BGE much either, but it was extremely well realized and a polished game. And I enjoyed the photography aspect; I kind of wish the whole game had been centered around the photograhy rather than banal action. In any case I wasn't able to finish it.

[Bud Muhnquai]

LOL ZOMG BBQ PWNED WTF?!?!?123™

The point with BG&E for me was that, and this really isn't a standardised gaming thing, it was really mellow to play, whilst being very pretty and entertaining with what it did.

It was almost like they were putting out a kids game, but with a very knowing nod to all the post-adolescents. "You'll like this, sah".

While the game isn't much of a challenge, isn't a graphical uber-feast and isn't even particularly long or in depth, it is quite simply fun to play.

Remember fun?

So all the while I was being pushed through the linear world and all the time I was snapping pics of wildlife, I found the game to be relaxing. Enough action and excitement to occasionally think "Wahey, this is fun, I'm enjoying this", yet not so much action, or indeed brain numbing tedium, to make me want to give up. I think also the dev's ability to make you empathise with the characters and actually form some sort of quasi-bond with them helped.

But then, it all depends how susceptible you are to that sort of thing, I guess.

[Cichlisuite]

Really, it was the wonderful world that made BG&E so memorable to me. The way everything fell into place... truly amazing. The photography was a nice touch, as it encouraged me to explore every spot on the planet while bringing it to life. Because of the vivacity, moving around without making progress became rewarding in itself.

I must admit: when I did start to make progress, gameplay became a bit of a mixed bag. With all these styles, none stood out, and the adventure felt less coherent than the world it was set in.

[Roderick]

It is that elusive mix of visual style, wonderful art direction, a world that doesn't feel constricting and most of all, that palpable amount of love poured into every cranny of it. It represents everything I love about games. It's not too difficult so as not to hinder progress, it practically plays out as one giant cinematic, interactive cutscene, and it has way more (character) depth than any of the Zelda's, which was THE most important aspect that continuously disappoints me in that series.

But at the same time, I can also so understand how you could be disappointed with it if you had been hearing nothing but praise and hype about it. I'm telling you, hype is the fucking devil and killer of games.