dartmonkey

We can remaster him. We have the technology.

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I've just heard that Streets of Rage 2 and Sonic 2 are coming to 3DS in the Sega 3D Classics series. These are ports of Sega arcade or Genesis/Mega Drive games but the word 'port' carries a bad smell which these releases don't deserve to be tainted with. They're made by M2 and so much care and attention appears to go into them it makes you want to buy Altered Beast just to support them. If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading through their interviews on the Sega blog.

 

Anyhoo, my joy at the news of Sonic 2 getting rereleased for the thousandth time started me thinking about reissues or VC releases that match or even improve on the original release. The general consensus for playing old games would be to play them on original hardware for the best experience. But with tech getting old and changing and taking up space and dying, it's often a ballache too far. And, while there are differences in controllers, playing Sonic (which requires a D-pad and a button) on a DS rather than a Mega Drive pad is hardly 

, is it? You've got good, non-virtual buttons. Do I lose anything measurable in the transition? Audio quality perhaps.

 

Is the original Grim Fandango CD-ROM inferior to the remaster? I know they're both the same game, but is it truly worth the time, effort and expense to find the original and get it running when a beautiful remaster with convenient, modern options is so easily available? Would I get ANYTHING from that endeavour, other than purist self-satisfaction? Is a SNES pad and the CRT 'experience' necessary to get the best from Link To The Past or is that nostalgic BS? What if I've got the Wii SNES controller? 

 

It's a minefield! With so many re-releases coming thick and fast (and for much younger games), and with retro steaming services soon to become a reality, I think it's interesting to discuss if the hipster playing original Tetris on an original GB is having a better time than me playing it on a 3DS. Will people in 15 years be ebaying PS3s for the 'authentic' Last of Us experience?

 

My question, boiled down: Can you think or any re-released games that suit their new environment well enough to make the original obsolete?

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I can think of a quite a few, although I wouldn't go as far as calling the previous version obsolete for all of them.

 

For starters, let's admit it, the older portable systems had pretty much terrible screens, I tried playing a Game Boy game on the original system and boy was it hard to see what's on the screen. Many ports are practically obligatory for many reasons, many older games that rely on batteries for saves no longer work, making the original unplayable without altering it.

 

It's almost a hassle to play older games, they look horrible in modern screen and it's too inconvenient to keep an old monitor, speaking of which, gun games don't work on modern monitors, so you probably can't even play Duck Hunt on an original NES without an old TV.

 

But if we forget about the hardware limitations and the fact that you just can't get some of the older games without paying a fortune for them, in many cases some "remasters" do make the original obsolete.

 

Wind Waker HD makes sailing and some quests less of a hassle, so why would I play the original anymore?

 

Grim Fandango let's you play without tank controls.... need I say more? 

 

Sometimes ports or even just the "Virtual Console" version has been patched or has fixed bugs and issues that stayed in the original game.

 

 

Frankly, it should be more of an issue of when the port or re-release is inferior, some versions of Castlevania: SOTN changed the "What is a man?" speech, as far as I know Resident Evil ports removed the "Jill Sandwich" line, many arcade ports are lazy and bad, but in general, I do think that ports and re-releases and better more often than not, sure the faces in Monkey Island Remastered are creepy, but the voices make it much better to me.

 

I'm having a hard time thinking of games where the original version might be better, perhaps those bad arcade ports? But since I never played the original I wouldn't notice, it's like reprinting an old book and changing a words, some hardcore fans will says they like the original is better, but that old edition is out of print and the new one is all we have?

 

If you have the original game, good for you, but not everybody has access to these older games? I'm pretty sure most people don't.

 

As for hipsters... I have no idea how the hipster thing even works?

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I don't know whether this counts, but the arcade version of Half Life 2 is a weird thing. Namely because the trusted K+M has been replaced with the weirdest cockpit configuration ever:

 

1322257666.jpg

 

Does it play better? Hell no. But it does make it more enjoyable.

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Link's Adventure DX made the original irrelevant.  There's an additional dungeon included and it's in colour, not the terrible Game Boy yellow and black.

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolution: Director's Cut: Colon is demonstrably better than the original, with the reworked boss fights, commentary, NG+, and included DLC.  

 

Though I've never played it, I heard that The Last of Us Remastered is leaps and bounds ahead of the original.  

 

hat's not to say that you can't get entertainment out of the originals, but in a world where these other versions exist, it's hard to imagine why someone would choose to play one over the other (assuming they had equal access to both).

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I have seen a lot of complaints about the Homeworld Remastered AI being not as good as the original game. I don't have an original copy any more to do the comparison.

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Wind Waker HD makes sailing and some quests less of a hassle, so why would I play the original anymore?

 

Yes. Nintendo do this quite well when they bother to put the effort in and I'd include both 3DS Zelda remakes too. You lose the big screen but you gain about four times the framerate, better controls and sharper graphics.

 

Okami HD and Shadow of the Colossus are up there too. Higher resolution and true widescreen in the first instance, vastly improved framerate in the second. I can't remember if Ico is as much of an improvement over the PS2 version though.

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I don't know if "the hipster playing the original Tetris on an original Gameboy" is having a better experience than you playing on the 3DS, but they are definitely having a DIFFERENT experience, which automatically means that it's not obsolete. Not if you care at all about game history.

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I get the complaining about them, and I feel that the original versions of games should be preserved for history's sake, but honestly I love the idea of remasters and rereleases. My eventual goal is to replace my entire physical game collection with digital versions, so the sooner the better.

 

I'm really fond of the way that Nintendo remasters (eg: Ocarina of Time 3D, Super Mario 64 DS) make the game look the way you remember it. Like, you look at it and think nothing's changed until you go back and look at how low-poly and retroactively crummy they look.

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I get the complaining about them, and I feel that the original versions of games should be preserved for history's sake, but honestly I love the idea of remasters and rereleases. My eventual goal is to replace my entire physical game collection with digital versions, so the sooner the better.

 

I'm really fond of the way that Nintendo remasters (eg: Ocarina of Time 3D, Super Mario 64 DS) make the game look the way you remember it. Like, you look at it and think nothing's changed until you go back and look at how low-poly and retroactively crummy they look.

 

I feel like preservation is key. My CDs for Grim Fandango are in really bad shape, they kept causing the game to lock up. The work around I was using was pretty ridiculous. I copied the CDs over to fresh ones, which ended up with different errors. I was saving a lot and swapping between original and burned CDs to get through the game.

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I don't think any of us here would be against preservation, except maybe those "hipsters" would make a belt buckle out of a rare NES game because irony? (Seriously, I can't even fathom how the term hipster even works)

 

There is nothing wrong with liking VHS movies, old Atari games or anything older, but you have to understand, if you're new to this, getting an old console and some games can be so much more expensive and a hassle to get them to run compared to simply buying the digitally remastered edition or Virtual Console version.

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Ok, I played through Grim Fandango in 2001 with camera-relative controls. Tank controls were ALWAYS OPTIONAL. I don't get why the entire internet seems to believe that the rerelease is the first time you can play in a way other than with tank controls. That's been bothering me for a while.

 

ANYWAY, the rerelease is still very worth getting for other reasons of quality. I'll be on my way now.

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also can I use this thread to complain about how shitty Wii U Virtual Console is

 

because I mean really

 

there's barely any third-party stuff, but there's both the SNES and GBA versions of Super Mario World

 

I mean really

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Ok, I played through Grim Fandango in 2001 with camera-relative controls. Tank controls were ALWAYS OPTIONAL. I don't get why the entire internet seems to believe that the rerelease is the first time you can play in a way other than with tank controls. That's been bothering me for a while.

 

ANYWAY, the rerelease is still very worth getting for other reasons of quality. I'll be on my way now.

 

I think people really just mean keyboard controls. The camera-relative mode was even worse than the tank controls due to them not elegantly handling camera switches and more fiddly bits of the environment; it was playable, but it was far from a great implementation. I mean I actually grew to like the tank controls and now use them over the mouse-based alternative, but I think that what people really wanted all along was the ability to point and click.

 

As for obsoletion, I'd say that the Metal Gear Solid 2 (Substance) and 3 (Subsistence) re-releases definitely render the originals pointless because they really are pretty much exactly the same games but in higher resolution and with some frame rate improvements. While I do enjoy more extensive remasters, my favourite ones are actually those that preserve the game apart from those universal technical limitations of the time — a bit like remastering a film for Blu-ray for the higher fidelity, but not messing around with the colour grading, special effects, etc.

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Remasters occupy a precarious space in my mind.  On the one hand, I like getting updates features such as graphics, additions, or gameplay improvements.  They're a great way to introduce older, classic games to a new generation that hasn't experienced them and probably wouldn't otherwise.  It's also a good opportunity for me to play things I may have missed the first time or never wanted to finish for one reason or another.

 

On the other hand, there's a part of me that feels like remasters are nothing more than a way of selling me a game I already paid for but with a new layer of polish.  If its still essentially the same game, why am I paying again?  If its changed significantly, why am I not just getting a brand new game?  That's an exaggeration of course and I'm not trying to come off as someone who thinks all companies are nothing more than money-grubbing executives who are trying to bleed their audience dry (although I'm sure those exist).

 

As for the hipster angle, I agree with Patrick that playing an original release on original hardware is a different experience.  I'm old enough to have played games on an Atari so nostalgia alone has appeal to me.  I'm sure there are people who want to be seen in public with an original Gameboy because they think it'll make them cool, but there are also people like me who want to play on an original Gameboy because that's where our fondest memories come from.

 

Finally, to talk about a specific game, the Ducktales remaster had the opposite effect to me.  I really loved the game as a kid but the new version just wasn't really any fun to me.  To be fair, I haven't gone back and played the original version as a point of comparison so it may be me who's at fault here and the game was never as good as I thought it was.

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I have seen a lot of complaints about the Homeworld Remastered AI being not as good as the original game. I don't have an original copy any more to do the comparison.

HW:R comes with the original so if you own that you CAN do the comparison!

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HW:R comes with the original so if you own that you CAN do the comparison!

 

Its graphically the original, but i think it still has the engine changes.

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also can I use this thread to complain about how shitty Wii U Virtual Console is

 

because I mean really

 

there's barely any third-party stuff, but there's both the SNES and GBA versions of Super Mario World

 

I mean really

 

By shitty you mean the catalogue rather than the implementation? I don't have any VC games on it, but in general I've only heard good things about it (once they updated with off-screen play). Two versions of the same game seems crazy, but it does have Earthbound.

 

Speaking of Super Mario's World (some parent must have called it that, no?) I've been eyeing up a cheap GBA SP for a while and I bought it today. It's got some scratches but it's a beautiful little thing - light but sturdy. I've got an old GBA in my parent's loft and I have a DS Lite in my house so it's an entirely superfluous purchase. I've just always fancied one. I plugged in SMW (or SMA2: SMW to give it its full acronym) and for the first time it felt like a good 'fit'.  I've had the game for a couple of years but every time I fired up the Lite it felt finicky and I put it down after 15 minutes. I might actually stick at it this time. Perhaps LttP would feel better on this too. I realise they're both ports of SNES originals, but after pondering in the opening post if hardware form makes much difference when you've got the requisite D-pad and buttons, it was weird to suddenly feel at home with this game on a different system. The screen is much darker than the Lite's, but everything feels chunkier and...better!

 

Researching today, I think I may have found a candidate for this category - Metroid: Zero Mission. By all accounts it sexes up the original Metroid, adds some new content, makes it portable and even throws in the original too. I've got the NES game on 3DS as part of the Ambassador programme thingy, but could never stomach save-stating my way through it. Zero Mission seems like the best way to do it. It's a bit pricey, mind.

 

And, of course, irony of ironies, now I'm Mr Hipster on the bus with my chunky red SP. It's hardly a wax cylinder...er, player, but still. How appropriately ironic...no, hang on - that doesn't make sense...nooo, NOOOOOOO :spiraldy:

 

I've had the Grim CD-ROM sitting on my shelf for ages now, but have never tried it. Should probably do that.

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I was just about to suggest Zero mission. I really loved that game, it grabbed me hard, and the stealth section was very well implemented. I can't get through the original metroid. The way it looks and plays just put me off. I got used to the Super Metroid style of game play and it's really hard to play a 2d metroid in any other way now.

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also can I use this thread to complain about how shitty Wii U Virtual Console is

 

because I mean really

 

there's barely any third-party stuff, but there's both the SNES and GBA versions of Super Mario World

 

I mean really

 

While Sony's PSOne and PS2 classics may have more third party classics, at least Nintendo tries to make VC releases worldwide... they actually translated Sin & Punishment!

 

Compared to Sony's Classics, I always have to buy some import PSN card and switch to a different country account to play them, then again... You can actually do this with Sony, if you want a VC game that only exists digitally in another country, you have to buy a new 3DS or Wii U, right?

 

Wow, I just realized you can NES Sunsoft classics on your PS3/Vita/PSP like Journey to Silius. You play Chrono Trigger on PSN, but not on VC... Maybe the PSN side of classic games is better after all. :^(

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While Sony's PSOne and PS2 classics may have more third party classics, at least Nintendo tries to make VC releases worldwide... they actually translated Sin & Punishment!

 

Compared to Sony's Classics, I always have to buy some import PSN card and switch to a different country account to play them, then again... You can actually do this with Sony, if you want a VC game that only exists digitally in another country, you have to buy a new 3DS or Wii U, right?

 

As far as I'm aware, Sin and Punishment and Monster World IV are the only games to ever be translated solely for their VC releases, and there are massive differences in the VC lineup for each country. Japan has nearly twice as many games available as NA or PAL do (291, 154, and 162 games respectively; with no guarantee of overlap for any given game).

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Wow, apparently Japan has MSX and PC Engine games on the Wii U VC! Most of the PC Engine games are on the JPN PSN, so you could get them if you really wanted to.

 

I guess many of the games we aren't getting from other regions were either never translated and text heavy or have some copyright issues? It would suck if a game was released worldwide but only in some regions digitally... I think there actually might be some examples, but I just can't remember.

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Off the top of my head, Metroid Zero Mission has been out on the JP and PAL VC for ages now and still hasn't hit the NA one. That particular one is a sore spot for me because it's my favourite Metroid game.

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My latest video's about the Resident Evil HD Remaster (a remake of a re-imagining) but also looks at the recent trend of remakes, remasters, and re-imaginings.

 

I like a re-release as much as the next guy (especially in the case of Resident Evil; I must've owned 6 or 7 different copies of RE2 over the years) but I think this trend is more about cashing in on name recognition and an inbuilt fanbase rather than real creative iteration.

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