Ferguson

[BobbyBesar]

Yeah I guess I'm in no position to really objectively analyze that kind of situation. I've never held a gun outside a shooting range before, and I've certainly never felt threatened or felt I needed to hurt someone in any capacity. But it makes me feel sick regardless.

Yeah. And by and large, I share your feelings. I often actively try to separate myself from emotional reactions in these kinds of situations, to see if it provides a different perspective.

 

And again, it is particularly tragic in this case, because from the looks of things, Brown might potentially have survived anywhere in the range of 1-9 bullets. If somebody is killed immediately, and the remaining bullets are just shooting an already dead man, it's weirdly gross, but it feels less avoidable compared to a situation like this.

[Bjorn]

Well I knew it was sarcasm I just wasn't sure if you were aiming it at me or at the shitty situation. I got scared I made a huge mistake somehow. D:

Aimed at the shittiness around even being able to discuss police brutality in any kind of informed way because our law enforcement agencies and government have made sure that we don't actually have the data around these events.

[Gormongous]

Yeah. And by and large, I share your feelings. I often actively try to separate myself from emotional reactions in these kinds of situations, to see if it provides a different perspective.

 

And again, it is particularly tragic in this case, because from the looks of things, Brown might potentially have survived anywhere in the range of 1-9 bullets. If somebody is killed immediately, and the remaining bullets are just shooting an already dead man, it's weirdly gross, but it feels less avoidable compared to a situation like this.

 

It's interesting, because I remember reading a couple articles that an episode of Ghost in the Shell: SAC turned me onto, about how the transition of sidearms from revolvers to semiautomatics was the first and most important step in police militarization. The arguments for the transition have always been that semiautomatics are more modern, easier to operate, less prone to user error, and need reloading less often, but the article observed that revolvers, with their five- or six-shot capacity and lengthy reload time, force an interval that usually breaks a cop out of that "keep shooting until it stops moving" loop that seems hard-wired into humans.

 

It also argued, and this seems true even though I have no evidence either way, that magazine capacity is a red herring and if a situation is not resolved in six bullets, twelve bullets isn't going to resolve it either.

[BobbyBesar]

Interesting theory.

 

Reminds me of Neil Tyson's spiel about how the quill pen encourages pithy speechwriting, as it only allowed 10-ish(?) words per dip, which is about a single breath's worth of speech.

User Experience design is everywhere!

[itsamoose]

Aimed at the shittiness around even being able to discuss police brutality in any kind of informed way because our law enforcement agencies and government have made sure that we don't actually have the data around these events.

 

I feel as though a result of the lack of real data is that a good portion of the discussion has been focused on describing some kind of war on cops in same vein as the war on Christmas type discussions, if my Facebook wall is any indication.

[Badfinger]

I guess what I was trying to get at is that those choices very likely didn't actually exist (in a conscious way). The choice was "I am going to shoot this man until he is dead", and he did that, it just took him a while. I don't think Wilson re-evaluated at any point during that entire exchange.

 

Should he have re-evaluated? Probably. But I have no idea how realistic that is. I completely agree with you that the reason he made the decision initially has a lot to do with the racial tensions present. But I don't think, even to himself, Wilson thought "Now I am going to shoot this guy in the back". He simply thought "I have not finished with the shooting yet."

 

I just think the decision tree was much, much smaller than you're supposing. The only transition was "Is he dead yet?"->No->Keep Shooting.

 

This train of thought is exactly the reason SWAT officers with leveled rifles was so incredibly abhorrent a month ago. The training is SUPPOSED to be such that if your weapon is leveled, you have deemed the use of lethal force necessary. So it should go firearm leveled -> neutralize a target, and all the situation assessment goes into the time prior to actually training your weapon on a target.

[syntheticgerbil]

Because swatting is so prominent, while cruel, I wonder if this will force police squads to scale back on using that shit just for a search warrant. It seems really out of control to even use swat teams that much. Whatever article I read on it says every time someone pulls a SWAT team prank, it costs whatever local force $10,000 for the trip, and that's ridiculous. I can't imagine it's any more ridiculous than kicking down the door and using excessive force for something like drugs, or someone hijacking an innocent family's wifi for nefarious purposes.

 

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/10-facts-about-the-swat-teams-of-america-that-everyone-should-know/

[pkirkner]

This train of thought is exactly the reason SWAT officers with leveled rifles was so incredibly abhorrent a month ago. The training is SUPPOSED to be such that if your weapon is leveled, you have deemed the use of lethal force necessary. So it should go firearm leveled -> neutralize a target, and all the situation assessment goes into the time prior to actually training your weapon on a target.

 

That's literally the first safety rule the NRA teaches. It's the second, of a whopping four, basic firearm safety rules that the US Navy / Marine Corps teach. The fact that numerous cops were blatantly disregarding the most basic of firearm safety rules, with press everywhere, was shocking.

[itsamoose]

on a side note, the trend of military equipment going to local governments is expanding into schools.

[Vorlonesque]

That's literally the first safety rule the NRA teaches. It's the second, of a whopping four, basic firearm safety rules that the US Navy / Marine Corps teach. The fact that numerous cops were blatantly disregarding the most basic of firearm safety rules, with press everywhere, was shocking.

It made me cringe every time I saw it for that reason (among others).  That's something that if you've ever had any safety training or have ever handled a gun in the presence of people who are even remotely concerned about safety that is drilled into your head.  If you follow those four rules accidents are really unlikely and when I see people not following those it makes me really nervous because that is when bad shit happens.  I also cringe whenever I'm watching a movie and a person is running with their finger on the trigger...that's a good way to have a negligent discharge.

[Badfinger]

It made me cringe every time I saw it for that reason (among others).  That's something that if you've ever had any safety training or have ever handled a gun in the presence of people who are even remotely concerned about safety that is drilled into your head.  If you follow those four rules accidents are really unlikely and when I see people not following those it makes me really nervous because that is when bad shit happens.  I also cringe whenever I'm watching a movie and a person is running with their finger on the trigger...that's a good way to have a negligent discharge.

 

I can remember in boy scouts, at the skeet shooting range you could watch someone fire both shells, and if they were careless with where the unbreached shotgun was pointed (even though everyone knew 100% that it could not be fired again, and even if it was being pointed at the ground) everyone was instantly on alert. People who care about gun safety CARE about gun safety.

 

Fuck, I've seen better gun discipline playing paintball.

[Henroid]

Somebody set part of the Mike Brown memorial on fire last night. I guess the KKK arrived in town or something.

[tegan]

 

 

If there was ever a photo that the Ferguson police didn't need taken...

 

(they were allegedly nowhere to be found when the fire department showed up)

[Henroid]

I have no idea when this photo was taken, and I don't have any proof that it is apparently one of the cops in Ferguson, but:

 

[aprettycooldude]

I was listening to the radio on the way into work this morning and continue to be livid with the Big Media response. We got "so someone set fire to the Mike Brown memorial AND THEN LOOTERS BROKE INTO A BARBER SHOP HERE IS THE REST OF THE SEGMENT."

 

I continue to be *amazed* at how many people have either forgotten about or never heard about Ferguson in the first place; it is incredibly refreshing to see people continuing to keep tabs on the police. Is it just me, or are none of them wearing the mandated cameras from several weeks back?

[Nachimir]

I was listening to the radio on the way into work this morning and continue to be livid with the Big Media response. We got "so someone set fire to the Mike Brown memorial AND THEN LOOTERS BROKE INTO A BARBER SHOP HERE IS THE REST OF THE SEGMENT."

 

I continue to be *amazed* at how many people have either forgotten about or never heard about Ferguson in the first place; it is incredibly refreshing to see people continuing to keep tabs on the police. Is it just me, or are none of them wearing the mandated cameras from several weeks back?

 

The cameras will probably take quite a long time to roll out; it's not just a camera on each officer, but the procedures and IT infrastructure required to handle and maintain them and the things they record too.

I've only heard about Ferguson through the internet. I'm amazed anyone bothers watching TV news anymore, it just seems to be doom-mongering guff that panders to existing power.

[Dewar]

I was listening to the radio on the way into work this morning and continue to be livid with the Big Media response. We got "so someone set fire to the Mike Brown memorial AND THEN LOOTERS BROKE INTO A BARBER SHOP HERE IS THE REST OF THE SEGMENT."

 

I continue to be *amazed* at how many people have either forgotten about or never heard about Ferguson in the first place; it is incredibly refreshing to see people continuing to keep tabs on the police. Is it just me, or are none of them wearing the mandated cameras from several weeks back?

 

I believe there was a post a couple of pages back saying that the govenor had vetoed the cameras, but I can't find it now.

[Nachimir]

Oh, shit. Given the other things I've read, he sounds like a total douchebag

[Henroid]

The last of the media departed Ferguson, so guess what the local PD is up to?

 

[tegan]

Ferguson police officer shot after confronting burglar. Thisi s just gonna keep getting worse before it gets better.

[Dewar]

Awesome, they don't even know what really happened and the camera was off. Yay.

[Henroid]

The cop should be penalized for not having his camera on. And frankly, this goes to show that if his side of the story is true, the camera would confirm it. But since it was off, it means he was doing something he didn't want to have recorded.

 

Or maybe it was on and the police are just withholding the recording.

[tegan]

Civilians supposedly at the scene are claiming that the officer in question killed the suspect at the scene, and I'm way more willing to believe them than the conflicting police reports that can't even decide on the officer's gender. One thing that the police do seem to be admitting is that it wasn't a burglar.

[Badfinger]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/police-officer-fatally-shoots-teenager-in-south-st-louis/article_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html

 

 

How's this for conflicting accounts: police say the boy killed had a gun and fired 3 shots. Others are saying he had a sandwich in his hand. The officer was off duty but in uniform, working as a private security guard.

[miffy495]

Obviously both sides are biased and telling half truths. He was carrying a weaponized sandwich.

 

 

...seriously, what the fuck, world? I am continually baffled by how horrifying this shit is. It never occurred to me that police officers would be allowed to work as security when not on duty. As a teacher, if I offer my services as a tutor, it is grounds for dismissal. That's for helping children. Yet some police officers can say "I NEED THIS POWER TRIP TO CONTINUE INTO MY OFF HOURS AS WELL!" and everyone is cool with it. I want to make it clear that I'm sure there are good police officers who don't use their careers as a power trip, but that the world is such that I need to clarify that at ALL is horrible.