Jake Posted January 29, 2014 Idle Thumbs 143: This One's Fr4e Could Steve Jobs have saved Far Cry 2? Is Sega the Pepsi of video games? Is Apple the Nintendo of tomorrow? Things Discussed: The Banner Saga, The Yawhg, Crusader Kings Kings 2, The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, Resident Evil 4 Ultimate HD Edition, Far Cry 2, Super Mario 3D World, Apple, Coke, Nintendo, Pepsi Listen on the Episode Page Listen in iTunes Subscribe to the RSS Feed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SecretAsianMan Posted January 30, 2014 I'm still listening to the episode, but I just wanted to say that I finally beat Olmec in Spelunky while listening. After failing so many times, apparently what I needed was an awesome podcast to listen to. Thanks Thumbs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tegan Posted January 30, 2014 The Gamecube controller was AWESOME apart from the d-pad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tegan Posted January 30, 2014 You guys are severely underestimating how well Wii Fit sold. If you consider Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus to be a single game and combine their sales figures, it's the second best-selling game of all time (after Wii Sports and just above Super Mario Bros.) EDIT: oh man, "fancy boys" is great. I've been calling the dog Mr. Fusspot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stuart Posted January 30, 2014 This was an awesome pod! Loved the convo on the new Zelda game. Soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted January 30, 2014 You guys are severely underestimating how well Wii Fit sold. If you consider Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus to be a single game and combine their sales figures, it's the second best-selling game of all time (after Wii Sports and just above Super Mario Bros.) EDIT: oh man, "fancy boys" is great. I've been calling the dog Mr. Fusspot. I know the Wii Fit sold well, but I think it was emblematic of cashing in on the fad-like parts of the Wii as opposed to finding something sustainable. It's telling that the Wii Fitness Trainer is a novelty in the Wii U Smash Bros, like Mr Game & Watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusbyBerkeley Posted January 30, 2014 I thought it was already widely accepted that Sega was the Pepsi to Nintendo's Coke... I know for sure that I've had that conversation with my little brother at least once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robotslave Posted January 30, 2014 It was kind of uncomfortable to listen to a discussion of Nintendo's failure as a hardware company that didn't even mention handheld gaming. A discussion prompted by a 3DS game, no less! I was squirming the whole time, I tell you. I mean, sure, we all carry around handheld gaming devices now, with phones built in, but the kinds of games we play on those aren't the same kind that people play on Nintendo's pocket hardware, and that's not just due to licensing decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
subbes Posted January 30, 2014 Cut to the Campo Santo office, walls entirely covered with Jake portraits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted January 30, 2014 Vigo the Carpathian Jake the Carpathian Video Games the Carpathian VG the Carpathian Hmmm. Doesn't have the same ring to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Posted January 30, 2014 It was kind of uncomfortable to listen to a discussion of Nintendo's failure as a hardware company that didn't even mention handheld gaming. A discussion prompted by a 3DS game, no less! I was squirming the whole time, I tell you. I mean, sure, we all carry around handheld gaming devices now, with phones built in, but the kinds of games we play on those aren't the same kind that people play on Nintendo's pocket hardware, and that's not just due to licensing decisions. Sean said imagine Nintendo just making handhelds and I admittedly immediately disregarded it. They make Nintendo a ton of money but I think any prestige Nintendo has(which is important) comes from their games coming out of the worlds living room TV sets, regardless of where the money actually comes from. You're right that handhelds are a huge thing. I don't think Nintendo's future is in a successful smartphone though, and that's where all the pundits are telling them to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henroid Posted January 30, 2014 Holy smokes, this was like the best episode of Idle Thumbs ever. Like not for funny shit, just the discussions on each topic. So good. Still trying to form my thoughts before I spout my useless opinions but good job you guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted January 30, 2014 Now that I've actually listened to the first part of the podcast, I do have a comment about The Banner Saga. Chris and Sean talked like the heavily front-loaded lore and story decisions were missteps by the developers, since they drag down the pace and overwhelm the player, but I'm almost sure they're intentional, because they're the part of the game that bears the most resemblance to King of Dragon Pass, which the devs named as a big inspiration during their Kickstarter. In King of Dragon Pass, you're given an excess of information with every single decision, to the point that it's almost impossible to process, with the intended consequence that you can't play it like FTL, where you're presented with an obvious and well-flagged decision point that has a guaranteed optimal response for your given situation, and instead have to default to a more instinctual style of role-playing. Clyde or someone who's played multiple times can speak to this better, but after beating the game once, I'm mostly sure that there's not supposed to be an optimal or even positive outcome to coming across a farmer with cattle that could feed your clan. Something bad's going to go down, so you just have to go with what you can stomach as both player and character. That's King of Dragon Pass to me, where you do what you know is technically the right thing, but it blows up in your face anyway because of a sacrifice you missed four years ago or even just random chance, who knows. Now, all that said, I do agree that there's a bit of a clash between the two parts of the game, although after the first dozen I found the battles an interesting but ultimately tedious distraction from the story, which I was really there to see. I assume the renown currency was supposed to tie the tactical battles and the story together, but there is an optimal decision there with how to spend said currency, which undermines everything in the previous paragraph about intentionally obfuscated decision-making and role-playing. I can't help but feel that people who like the RP side should keep playing King of Dragon Pass and people who like the tactical battles should play The Banner Saga: Factions instead. Did the two halves form a complete whole for anyone else? EDIT: Yeah, listening to more of the conversation, maybe I'm just not sure that the minimalism Christ and Sean seem to crave was the actual design goal of Stoic here, considering that they are making a lushly illustrated game depicting a multi-episode Norse saga, which are just a lot of words. Right or wrong, of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigJKO Posted January 30, 2014 This is a really excellent pod. It is casting into my ear now and it is delicious. Sooooooooon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Leego Posted January 30, 2014 This week's Nintendo segment is brought to you by Jake "Mario Games" Rodkin. re: The Banner Saga and King of Dragon Pass comparisons, for those that have played both, are there any notable differences in the way KoDP presents that overwhelming cauldron of choices so as to make its intentionality more obvious? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigJKO Posted January 30, 2014 Weirdly, Iwata is still saying that making games on smart devices isn't being ruled out..?? "Accordingly, I have not given any restrictions to the development team, even not ruling out the possibility of making games or using our game characters." (source) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atte Posted January 30, 2014 The YAWHG has a pretty interesting source of inspiration. Few years ago I played Dungeons of Fayte, a TIG source competition/gamejam game, with my friends and really liked it. When I watched your Yawhg stream a while ago I was instantly reminded of Dungeons of Fayte, and after some googling my suspicions were confirmed. Designer Damian Sommer writes: "The Yawhg only really has one direct game inspiration: Dungeons of Fayte. The Yawhg was actually an attempt by me to take my favourite part of Fayte, the in-town story events, and expand and focus upon them greatly. I think we succeeded." http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/20905/indie-developer-focus-the-yawhg So Dungeons of Fayte is a combination of traditional dungeon crawling and choose your own adventure style story events. Yawhg's focus on story works great (and Emily Carroll's art is incredible) but I still also would like to see a game like DoF fully developed (it seems like the creator is working on other things now). Oh and instead of the horrible Yawhg, players in DoF are preparing to confront the Bone Lord, fearsome ruler of the Underwyrld... Other Yawhg interviews: http://plus10damage.com/blog/2013/6/12/the-yawgh & http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/209578/Road_to_the_IGF_Damian_Sommer_and_Emily_Carrolls_The_Yawhg.php DoF TIG forums page: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=10372.0 DoF playthrough (see 04:00 for in-town gameplay): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainFish Posted January 30, 2014 Great cast, loved the Nintendo discussion and the pointed critique of the Banner Saga. I get a lot of the rest of my coverage from Giant Bomb, and they haven't covered it yet, so this is really useful information to what the game is. What really struck me in the Nintendo conversation is the mention of a pared down control system. I feel like a lot of the smaller games I've enjoyed a ton have just been 2 or 3 button affairs, and I had those experiences on the Wii with Megaman 9, 10 and Cave Story. Mega Man 9 almost feels like the vanguard of some of those experiences, but in general WiiWare wasn't a bastion of those types of games, instead it was kind of a joke*. Maybe it was just too early to capitalize on that wave, but it seems like they had their chance at having a Steam equivalent, but they didn't pull it off. They were probably hoping VC would do it for them, and to some extent it probably did pull in a lot of money from gamers on the system, but it feels like they could've done more somehow. *Not to say that there weren't a lot of good games, there just seemed to be a lot of shovel ware as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agorman Posted January 30, 2014 A thing I enjoy on this cast: Jake suggesting a ridiculous event happening and following it up with, "What if that happened?" I did that sort of thing all the time as a kid and drove my parents insane I'm pretty sure. Silly connection to make but anyway I always think it's hilarious. Also holy crap The Banner Saga is incredibly gorgeous, hadn't seen any artwork for it until listening to this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Bakker Posted January 30, 2014 Every time Chris said he wished The Banner Saga was more "snappy" I kept having flashbacks to the episode where the crew were making fun of the Snappy Gamer website. Turns out their demand for snappiness was years ahead of it's time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Copy Paper Posted January 30, 2014 Far Cry 2! My friends and I had no exposure to the dev circuit for Far Cry 2 and loved it for the exact same reasons enumerated endlessly on idle thumbs. In fact, this is part of what drew me to idle thumbs podcast in the first place-- I had a moment of "someone understands me!" when the crew started pouring love on FC2 on the first episode I listened to way back in the day. I would like to note that whatever you think of the systemic and/or brutal elements of the game, the base gun play is actually fantastic. I used to tell stories of FC2 experiences to my two other friends who love the game, and we realized that we were more or less playing different games. I tend to sneak through the grass with a shotgun and my machete surprising enemies and clearing areas. My friend is a sniper, and my other friend uses assault rifles. I've tried all of these approaches, and they are equally fun. The underlying gun mechanics work really well across all the weapons. Of course, the systemic elements of the game are to me one of the best parts of the experience, but I've always thought that part of why people get so frustrated with FC2 is that they see a game they'd like to play with good gun play, but are thwarted by and do not enjoy the systemic elements. If you don't have the patience for them, it doesn't matter how much "atmosphere" or "immersiveness" they add, you're just frustrated that you can't enjoy what would otherwise be a great shooter. So, people who love the systemic elements love the game, and people who don't really hate it because it is keeping them from otherwise great content. P.S., this is my first post, but this is the Far Cry 2 discussion forums, right? Copy Paper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lechimp Posted January 30, 2014 What's the Steve Gaynor lean? And I don't know why you guys were so self concious about using podcast to talk about the 90s. I would be ok with a 90s PBS podcast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
