Spacebase!

[brkl]

This is not very constructive because it's not really something that can be changed at this stage, but it bothers the hell out of me that you build the base on a 2D grid as if you were building it on a very flat piece of ground somewhere. It bothered me in the prototype but I figured it was because it was just a prototype. Anyway, I love the feel, the visuals, the music and all. I dig the vibe. Man. But I want to make Babylon 5, not an IKEA.

[melmer]

I can't think of an alternative that wouldn't end up being a complete mess once the base hits a certain size. And they need to keep it touchscreen friendly for the possible/inevitable iPad port

[brkl]

Depends on how you decide to go, but several floors at least would've been doable.

[Twig]

Dev plans list multi-level bases as a future goal. I don't know if that's exactly what you mean, but it'll add some depth to the game.

[Jake]

Depends on how you decide to go, but several floors at least would've been doable.

Anything "at least would've been doable." Any idea you have, you can conceivably put in a game. There is no limit in the coming-up-with-ideas part. What you choose to do with the limits imposed by the "in real life we only have this many people and they can only work thhis many hours" part is a lot of what being a lead on a game is about. Things actually take a lot of time to do and with only so many people you have to pick what gets done first, what gets done later, and what never goes in the gamd. As far as this specific example, the team Dev plans page discusses multi level as a thing they want to pursue. I think everyone agrees that being able to stack layers on your base like the Enterprise, Galactica, or the Death Star would be amazing.

[i hope this didn't come across as accusatory or angry. I think the holes present in alpha funded games, and different peoples interpretations over how/when/if they get filled, are the things that most aggressively tear the roof off of the development process. It's what creates a conversation about how games are made, not just a conversation about what should be included in one of them.]

[melmer]

Tad angry

in that video JP lost his security team in a tiny single storey base because they were off doing something unexpected, extrapolate that out over a larger base with multiple floors and you can rename the game spacebase mayhem. I'm not saying its impossible, but it's certainly unfeasible at this alpha stage.

[mikemariano]

After the amnesia fortnight prototype, the look they chose for the final game is not what I was expecting at all, but it's grown on me since pretty heavily.

 

Yeah, I thought we'd get some Chris Remo-approved "majesty of space" kinda thing.  Then the trailer showed aliens out of Masters of Orion bust through the door and start laser blasting.  "Oh, I guess it's that kinda thing," I said.

[clyde]

Anything "at least would've been doable." Any idea you have, you can conceivably put in a game. There is no limit in the coming-up-with-ideas part. What you choose to do with the limits imposed by the "in real life we only have this many people and they can only work thhis many hours" part is a lot of what being a lead on a game is about. Things actually take a lot of time to do and with only so many people you have to pick what gets done first, what gets done later, and what never goes in the gamd. As far as this specific example, the team Dev plans page discusses multi level as a thing they want to pursue. I think everyone agrees that being able to stack layers on your base like the Enterprise, Galactica, or the Death Star would be amazing.

[i hope this didn't come across as accusatory or angry. I think the holes present in alpha funded games, and different peoples interpretations over how/when/if they get filled, are the things that most aggressively tear the roof off of the development process. It's what creates a conversation about how games are made, not just a conversation about what should be included in one of them.]

A conversation I would love to have is "Why make games?"

When I play finished products (gamma games?) part of the experience is often considering the potentials that the game never achieved but hinted at. Alphas seem to have this quality of inspiration one-hundred fold. Games like Spacebase DF-9 being in such early stages and the sense that the developers are listening to suggestions create a hope-rich environment. For someone like myself who doesn't have the chops to make a systems-driven game but has a LOT of opinions about how they could deviate from their predecessors and what the benefits of doing so may be, the alpha-experience is both ecstatic and depressing. One thing I really like about it is that I spend some of my free-time working out some of the complexities of how to implement my ideas. Of course this leisure-activity doesn't involve bug-squashing and fully realized art-assets, but it does provide a sense of how much a feature may require, often leading to extrapolated insights. So that is a fun way to enjoy the games as they are being made. It's like problem-solving fan-fiction. The depressing part is when reality sets in as you describe. This reality often evokes a frustration with perceived homogeneity. I end up asking myself "Why would they make [genre-game] again when they could have made something that fills a different need?" I'm not saying that Spacebase DF-9 will do this, I'm not even saying that they shouldn't do it; I'm just presenting the experience I end up having as an overly informed alpha-player who loves to doodle plans for other people's games. I'm not entitled to anything, I'm just frequently disappointed with my musings of lost potential.

I'm not suggesting a different course of action, I just wanted to explain why I find myself asking "Why did they make this game?" when games are made. Was it an elevator-pitch that they wanted to see realized? Are they attempting to simulate a problem relevant to their lives so they can self-medicate? Did they enjoy the implied character-narratives of FTL and want a game that emphasized them? Did they play too many alphas and realize that if they didn't make genetic-algorithm environment to simulate the evolution of real-world economies then no one else will? "Why did they make the game?" isn't a more important question that "How?", but it's one worth mentioning too.

[brkl]

Anything "at least would've been doable." Any idea you have, you can conceivably put in a game. There is no limit in the coming-up-with-ideas part. What you choose to do with the limits imposed by the "in real life we only have this many people and they can only work thhis many hours" part is a lot of what being a lead on a game is about. Things actually take a lot of time to do and with only so many people you have to pick what gets done first, what gets done later, and what never goes in the gamd. As far as this specific example, the team Dev plans page discusses multi level as a thing they want to pursue. I think everyone agrees that being able to stack layers on your base like the Enterprise, Galactica, or the Death Star would be amazing.

[i hope this didn't come across as accusatory or angry. I think the holes present in alpha funded games, and different peoples interpretations over how/when/if they get filled, are the things that most aggressively tear the roof off of the development process. It's what creates a conversation about how games are made, not just a conversation about what should be included in one of them.]

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it's not very constructive. Multiple levels would be cool, it'll be really nice if they can make that happen. But fundamentally what I want is something that's different from the core design of the game. It's not a feature to be implemented when the game is already alpha. They're just making a different game from what I would hope from the concept, which is personally disappointing.

Space station concepts I would have liked to see:

* Maybe it's a torus like in Elysium, you could do that with one level (that loops)

* Build a base on the surface of an asteroid, look around it like planets in Planetary Annihilation but a lot smaller

* Like ISS but huge

What they could do with multiple levels is something like the Enterprise, which is cool. Anyway, my problem is that I can't look at the base in the game and not think about what the whole looks like, and right now it looks like a sprawling flat thing, like a school. It doesn't make a lot of sense in space. I know that's silly. For more constructive opinions, the RPS article is good...

[Twig]

But fundamentally what I want is something that's different from the core design of the game.

I can totally agree with that. While I look forward to being able to play this game (once I have the necessary cheddar!), I feel like the tile-based structure of these kinds of games (Dwarf Fortress, Prison Architect, and now Spacebase DF-9) are very restrictive. If we're in goddamn space, man, I want to be able to ring like in Ringworld! Or, well, anything. We're in space! It's definitely disappointing that we can't go mad-crazy with the type of structure we're building.

 

Not that I can blame developers for sticking with a tile-based system. It's definitely easier than giving full freedom, and it's definitely good to have restrictions, lest you let feature creep destroy your game. But yeah I definitely agree, brkl. Dang.

 

I love space.

[Dewar]

Remember that Dwarf Fortress was only one floor for a long time, and Minecraft was partially based on the 2D mining genre of games like Terraria.

 

Regardless, you never know what kind of discussion might be helpful/informative to the developers. I've been really surprised at the amount of input the fans have had on Massive Chalice, and I'm happy to ride along on this as well.

[Frenetic Pony]

I got Greg Rice on my first crew! Hey Greg, your avatar picture is a lie, apparently you're actually Wesley Snipes from Demolition Man

 

Anyway, I can definitely see the potential here. One interesting thing I'd just sort of assumed would be there for no reason is noise, as in things making noise. The oxygen recyclers and mining refinery thing making noise, so you wouldn't want to build a residence next door to them because otherwise people will get angry at all that damned racket. Unless of course you put some vacuum in between the refinery and the residence, no sound in space!

 

Regardless, looking forward to this continuing.

[Erkki]

The UI is cool, but there are two things I don't like so far:

 

* The selection of base location: the parameters don't seem to have much to do with what's on the image? I end up doing minutes of pixel-hunting for the spot with the parameters I want. Also scrolling the mouse wheel is equal to left/right click.

 

* The 'C' key is usually "Confirm", except in the beacon menu where it is "Clear beacon".

[elmuerte]

my primary annoyance with the UI is the fact that escape always brings up the "pause menu" and doesn't do cancel/back

[dibs]

I wish the right mouse went backa menu level. I'm going to play some more today to get a better overview of the game.

[tabacco]

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but once you have some rooms and an airlock built, how do you get the crew to go inside? I built them this cool space base but they just hung out outside and died.

[Erkki]

Oxygen?

 

PS I've built a few bases now and the game shows a lot of promise. Much more interesting than what it seemed from Amnesia Fortnight. Currently it gets a bit boring after a while, but I expect they will add tons of interesting stuff.

[melmer]

Soft furnishings?

[Jake]

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but once you have some rooms and an airlock built, how do you get the crew to go inside? I built them this cool space base but they just hung out outside and died.

Did you put an oxygen recycler in the life support room?

[Nappi]

The gameplay seems nice, although, at this stage, the game get quite boring after a while. Looking forward to the updates!

 

Also, the UI is very slick!

[tabacco]

Did you put an oxygen recycler in the life support room?

Yeah, and all the rooms said their oxygen level was 100%

[Nappi]

Did you also build two airlock doors and a space suit closet? 

[tabacco]

Also yes.

[Nappi]

Oh well... maybe they prefer space.

[clyde]

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but once you have some rooms and an airlock built, how do you get the crew to go inside? I built them this cool space base but they just hung out outside and died.

That happened to me once.

I haven't been able to reproduce it though.