PL4YST4TION 4

[Thrik]

Haha, dear god:

 

 

 And with that budget?

[JonCole]

The other interesting aspect about Ghosts in particular is that due to the critical mass of it, I simply can't imagine that most of the audience will migrate to next-gen. Sure, there will be a contingent who feels that effectively spending $560 on a Call of Duty game makes sense, but I think the most dedicated audience just bought it day one for 360 and will wait until a next-gen only game to upgrade. The only palpable differences seem to be things like AI bot count, unlike BF4 that actually has higher player counts and bigger maps in next-gen.

 

I imagine that by that token, making XBONE/PS4 Ghosts was not an incredible priority for Activision/Infinity Ward, especially since they don't make an effort to push tech like DICE does.

[Nachimir]

Going to be exciting to see how much better games look once they stop trying to work on current-gen too.

 

I suspect that, while the visuals will be better, successive hardware generations are only going to deliver noticeably diminishing returns.

[Dewar]

It's a bit dissapointing to see things on the new consoles not performing as well as expected, but hopefully once things are being programmed exclusively for the new consoles it won't be quite so bad. Unfortunately, it's become abundantly clear that the majority of game makers (and I guess by extension game purchasers) would rather have big explosions and pretty lighting effects as opposed to smooth frame rates and better resolutions.

[Frenetic Pony]

Wow, look how similar the current-gen and next-gen versions of Ghosts look:

 

 

To me it looks like a great-looking current-gen game but an unremarkable next-gen game. I'd even argue that in some cases the current-gen version looks better because (bizarrely) they're using different colour grading for the next-gen version.

 

Going to be exciting to see how much better games look once they stop trying to work on current-gen too.

 

Actual next gen games look quite good I can guarantee you, well beyond Shadowkill Fallzone or whatever crap that is, but the other graphics programmers I know seem to know what they're doing.

 

As for Ghosts, that's not really a benchmark for anything. I'm surprised they don't slap a "Call of Duty 2014" on there. They've been selling the exact same game to people for 7 years in a row now, I wouldn't be surprised if they started cutting the budget back because they realize people will buy it no matter what. An extra $30 million could buy a new corporate jet, might as well.

[Frenetic Pony]

I suspect that, while the visuals will be better, successive hardware generations are only going to deliver noticeably diminishing returns.

 

Are games photo real yet? No, ok. Yes we've reached the apex of the return on investment curve, probably that was Crysis. Few games make anyone go "oh shit look at that!" Anymore, while games used to do so all the time. But that doesn't mean the returns aren't significant enough to invest in still.

 

The problem right now actually relates to how increasing budgets are invested. Most of the ever higher budgets just vanish down the wrong infinite wells of asset creation and etc. "Moar artists, more mo-cap, moar!" While Hollywood FX budgets are getting lesser every year while more and more movies are getting photo realistic. Games just pile ever more money on. Publishers have become obsessed with more explosions and celebrity voice actors and etc. when what they should be obsessed with is better toolchains and how to get making games to be cheaper.

 

As hollywood has shown it is perfectly possible to get both less expensive and better at the same time, but few in the games industry got the email. Elysium, if you saw it, is the pinnacle of VFX. You literally can't get better now, it was photorealistic start to finish, and yet only cost $120 million compared to Avatar's $215 million. Games could be doing the same thing if only more developers were aware enough to see it.

[elmuerte]

So next-gen is less brown?

[melmer]

So this televised PS event is happening on the 14th in New York where they'll be revealing some new games. Uncharted 4?

http://www.allgamesbeta.com/2013/11/watch-ps4s-north-american-launch-live.html

I do think that it'll be an even share with Indie games though, and oh look... Steve Gaynor's in New York, maybe a little holiday time before coming out on stage and announcing Gone Home on the PS4

I can imagine that PS indie team being all over his ass the second the game came out to rave reviews, I and if they weren't... Well they're not doing their job very well

[SilentBtAmazing]

@Thrik I always thought PS3 was technically more powerful than 360 but that in practice, they were even when it came to how games actually played. I think I (foolishly?) thought it would be the same kind if thing this time around.

[JonCole]

Thanks, guys.

 

[melmer]

[Frenetic Pony]

@Thrik I always thought PS3 was technically more powerful than 360 but that in practice, they were even when it came to how games actually played. I think I (foolishly?) thought it would be the same kind if thing this time around.

 

Not really, most developers liked the 360 a bit more. I too blame Obama for this.

 

[Hermie]

Diminishing returns of graphics:

 

 

Of course, there's more to it that that, but this definitely illustrates why the jump seems so much smaller this generation than the last.

[Thrik]

I expect a large part of it is developers rethinking how they produce visuals. In the past it has indeed largely been about poly count, whereas now you can almost not worry about that. But when it comes to animation, lighting, particle effects, physics, etc there is so much more to do — and they all fall under what I consider 'graphics'. AI is of course a whole other kettle of fish, but another thing that is unlocked by better hardware.

 

I expect this next generation and the ones beyond it to impress the shit out of us all, but it's going to take developers some time to figure things out. I'd say that Battlefield 4 is currently the best taste we've got of where things are going, even if a lot of it is still scripted rather than actually procedural.

[melmer]

Remote play at work

[JonCole]

Sony did an exclusive teardown of the PS4 prior to release with Wired, kind of unprecedented but very cool - 

 

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/11/playstation4-teardown-video/

[Dewar]

Diminishing returns of graphics:

 

 

Of course, there's more to it that that, but this definitely illustrates why the jump seems so much smaller this generation than the last.

 

Exactly, I hope that developers use the power either to flat out put more things on the screen (ala Dead Rising 3) or make things run silky smooth.

[Frenetic Pony]

Exactly, I hope that developers use the power either to flat out put more things on the screen (ala Dead Rising 3) or make things run silky smooth.

 

Done and done, 60fps is already more common (Battlefield 4 already runs at 60) and artists always want "moar!" Still, there are some things that aren't in diminishing returns yet. Global illumination (how light bounces all around, reflections) needs either a heck of a lot of power or a heck of a lot of effort and static game environments. Still, lighting is absolutely critical to how a game looks, and frankly almost everything done so far sucks balls.

 

I'd expect, once we get something that offers both good enough performance and faster development time, games will handily trade off 60fps with flat lighting for 30fps with good lighting and less effort.

[TheLastBaron]

Exactly, I hope that developers use the power either to flat out put more things on the screen (ala Dead Rising 3) or make things run silky smooth.

You sound like a quitter.

[elmuerte]

The run for polygons is long gone. If you've watched any PR material from Epic in the last couple of years it's how little polygons you they use to show awesome things.

There's more focus on doing more with less content. My favorite of doing more with less is the Bulletstorm "1 bald guy for many enemies" concept. As old UNIX people used to say "less is more".

[Zeusthecat]

I remember a few months back we were discussing the size of the game installs on the next gen systems and it was speculated that they wouldn't need to be nearly as big as what is contained on the disc since data is duplicated on the disc to reduce seek times or something like that. Well, it looks like the game installs are still going to be pretty fucking huge.

49 GB for COD Ghosts

45 GB for Killzone

37 GB for Knack

Suddenly a 500GB hard drive seems very inadequate.

[syntheticgerbil]

Gotta throw all of those uncompressed textures and audio somewhere. I really don't think it'll be alleviated until formats in both audio and images become more efficient in how they are compressed. If anything I'm somewhat amazed on these days on the relatively small file size of crisp images and audio, but the HD era requires tons of assets.

 

I also speak this as someone who never purchases digital downloads and has their 160 GB PS3 with only 15 GB left. A lot of that is downloadable only games, but I'm also scared of deleting some of the installs of disc games because a lot of times DLC I paid for and downloaded just lumps itself in to their install. I'm one of those people who get paranoid that digital downloads of things will get removed sooner or later and I hate not having it archived. I'd rather not get locked out of content because a service goes offline, a la original Xbox downloads.

[Dewar]

Man, that bites. How long does it take to download and install 45gb? Fuck that.

[melmer]

Well it does the install bit in the background whilist you're playing. Doesn't kill zone only take something like 2minutes before you're in the game. Do you really need to have 20 games installed on you ps at anyone time?

I read this yesterday, maybe they've got a trick up their sleeve

Future PS4 games may install to "cloud" and stream to console.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=710947

[Sno]

Exactly, I hope that developers use the power either to flat out put more things on the screen (ala Dead Rising 3) or make things run silky smooth.

 

Or more dynamic, mutable environments.

I'd really like to see game design get past the kind of "look, but don't touch" thing.