Cyberpunk video games

[TychoCelchuuu]

Anachronox is kind of a JRPG cyberpunk game, yes?

[Lu]

I think that's more scifi-fantasy, though there's definitely an influence there. And besides the turn-based combat, I don't really think it has anything in common with a JRPG. Not enough bullshitting about strength, the strength of friendship and the power of cooperation. Although I suppose you are saving the entire universe?

[Tanukitsune]

So to make things clear "cyberpunk" is a high-tech world that should have a minimum of cybernetics and/or internet or information sharing technology and the same time the world is either relatively dark or at least dystopic... But do post-apocalyptic worlds count?

Deponia is a junk world, but some people have cybernetic implants, does that count? And I don't see how the Tex Murphy ones don't count, you can be Noir in a cyberpunk world, you can be Noir in a fantasy world, so why not cyberpunk noir?

[juv3nal]

But do post-apocalyptic worlds count?

My understanding is that part of cyberpunk is that there needs to be some kind of institutional something (usually megacorporations) to be punk against. Post-apocalypse, those institutions are typically going to be much less powerful/relatively toothless compared to what they were pre-apocalypse so it waters down the punk aspect of things. Not that I would rule out the possibility entirely, but it would take a particular type of post-apocalyptic world.

Deponia is a junk world, but some people have cybernetic implants, does that count? And I don't see how the Tex Murphy ones don't count, you can be Noir in a cyberpunk world, you can be Noir in a fantasy world, so why not cyberpunk noir?

You can absolutely have noir in a cyberpunk world. Blade Runner is basically gussied up noir. If there's a reason Tex Murphy doesn't qualify, it's not because it's noir. I've played them but I only vaguely remember. Offhand, I'd say Tex Murphy is maybe too silly/lighthearted? There's an element of grimdark to cyberpunk, although there are exceptions, of course (before anyone jumps in with "but but but Snow Crash")..

[Lu]

To lift a line from the Wikipedia article, I think "high tech and low life" in a dystopian future is a pretty spot on and concise description of Cyberpunk.

[Tanukitsune]

Well in Deponia there are the Organnon who oppress the others with their superior tech, but it's a comedy, so I guess it's not cyberpunk. I guess the difference between a comedy in a cyberpunk world and a cyberpunk comedy is in the style of humor? Dark and satire are OK, but slapstick isn't?

What exactly do they mean by "low-life"? Low-life conditions? Morals? Pollution and trash? All of above?

[Lu]

Yea, all of the above. Usually huge inequalities as well (see mega-corporations). I think transhumanism is also more often than not an aspect of the genre. And I'm sure you could do a comedy in a cyberpunk world. That would actually be really interesting.

[feelthedarkness]

It can be a bit post apoc, but you need a libertarian fantasyland at least.

[Tanukitsune]

Well, you can't get more low-life than Deponia, the water there makes the river Ankh look crystal clear and Deponia literally means junkyard in German (or something like that), they have cyber implants, a cleaner holier than though society that wants to destroy the whole planet.

Frankly, I'm not sure if it even classifies as post apocalyptic, the planet just got slowly dirtier, there was no big disaster.

[brkl]

Cyberpunk is about hacking computer systems, virtual reality, looking cool, wearing 80s-but-futuristic-clothing, speaking in techy slang, neon everywhere, etc. It's a specific aesthetic, not just any piece of fiction that takes place in the near future.

[Tanukitsune]

Does there have to be hacking and virtual reality? I don't remember Blade Runner having them.

[juv3nal]

Does there have to be hacking and virtual reality? I don't remember Blade Runner having them.

It's not a make or break requirement IMO, certainly not the virtual reality part. It might (...maybe?) be a requirement that hacking is a thing that can happen in the world, but it's certainly not necessary that the characters participate in it.

[brkl]

Blade Runner had that sci-fi photography weirdness! It's not the same thing but I put it in the same category.

You have to remember Blade Runner is based on a book that was written before cyberpunk existed. The movie reimagined the book with a cyberpunk aesthetic, but adding hacking and computer systems would've been a pretty big change.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Blade Runner is basically dystopian noir. All it shares with cyberpunk is an aesthetic and commentary on what it means to be human. Cyberpunk can do entirely without the latter and still be cyberpunk. I think juv3nal is 100% right that cyberpunk requires something to be punk against. Blade Runner is the cyber in cyberpunk but it's not really about the punk. "*punk" has lost all meaning now that we have words like steampunk, but I think genuine cyberpunk (rather than stuff that adopts the cyberpunk aesthetic, or, broadly, "postcyberpunk," like Ghost in the Shell) needs punk as much as it needs cyber.

[ThunderPeel2001]

CyberPunk books also share the idea that technology has become more important than humanity -- not in the sense that computers now control world and we are all their slaves (although The Matrix certainly went that route), but in the sense that "life is cheap, but technology is valuable". So "low life and high tech" really does sum it up well, IMO.

That said, it is tricky to nail an exact definition. I just know there's a certain dystopian element -- In Neuromancer, Case is threatened with ending up as "spare parts" in some backstreet clinic. In Ghost in the Shell, someone has become so cybernetically enhanced they've lost sight of that it means to be human, in Johnny Mnemonic it's revealed that pharma companies have found a cure for the futuristic plague, but they're suppressing it because they make more money from treatment. It's not played for laughs (although I guess Snow Crash was a little silly). So, Tanu, it's not enough for something to be set in a future with cybernetics and virtual reality and hacking.

You can a sense of the tone just from the opening line from Neuromancer, arguably the prototypical CyberPunk novel:

The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.

[Tanukitsune]

CyberPunk books also share the idea that technology has become more important than humanity -- not in the sense that computers now control world and we are all their slaves (although The Matrix certainly went that route), but in the sense that "life is cheap, but technology is valuable". So "low life and high tech" really does sum it up well, IMO.

Hmm, that does make sense, you have high tech and low-life BECAUSE high tech is more important than "life". I don't think Deponia counts then, even as a comedy, since they have high tech rusting away.... it is a junkyard after all.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Hmm. Just watched the trailer:

I'm not sure what you're call that. It looks almost SteamPunky. I guess it shares some things with CyberPunk (dystopian/evil empire/technology), but I don't think anyone would use it as an example of the genre.

[elmuerte]

If Deponia is cyberpunk, then so is full throttle

[Tanukitsune]

I'm not sure if either qualify, but Full Throttle is probably more cyberpunk than Deponia? The bikes are high-tech, specially the Cavefish guys, the world is low-life... But it's missing the oppression of an "evil empire"?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Oh man. Forget I said anything!

[Ben X]

Oh for heaven's sake, just read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article and Neuromancer, then you know what cyberpunk is.

Btw, Subbes' best mate gave Bloodnet 90% (http://amr.abime.net/review_973) and it made it into the last ever AP Top 100. But he gave Dreamweb only 24% (http://amr.abime.net/review_962), EVEN THOUGH IT IS MATURE ENOUGH TO HAVE A MAN'S PENIS IN IT. Interesting to note that games were £35 even back then and that Nash readily refers to the fact that he only played the games halfway through.

[juv3nal]

You can a sense of the tone just from the opening line from Neuromancer, arguably the prototypical CyberPunk novel:

The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.

I was recently reading a discussion on another forum where it was brought up that this is basically an incomprehensible line to anyone growing up now; because a dead channel is what? blue, often.

[Gormongous]

I was recently reading a discussion on another forum where it was brought up that this is basically an incomprehensible line to anyone growing up now; because a dead channel is what? blue, often.

Kids these days still know what static is though, right? I don't know, I'm always shocked what my students don't know. Two years ago, there was the horrible revelation that Gladiator is no longer a touchstone I can use to get them excited about ancient history. Braveheart? Something their parents watched before they were born.

[TychoCelchuuu]

One of my colleagues wanted to use an example from The Matrix in class but only ~6 of the (college aged) students had seen it.

[miffy495]

Ha, yeah. I had a kid in the fifth grade class I worked with last April ask me (when he found out I was a gamer) what I started with. When I told him the first system that I owned by myself was a SNES, he said "Is that like, a different name for the Nintendo 64?"

My reply "No, it was the one that Nintendo made before the N64" absolutely blew his mind. I didn't even try to tell him that games hadn't gone 3D yet.