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The Idle Book Log: unofficial recommendations for forthcoming Idle Thumbs Book Clubs.

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Yep. The Complete Cosmicomics is great value, but for book club purposes you can stop once you finish "The Spiral" (page 151).

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I know it's all I seem to blab on about but I'd really like to recommend Kurt Vonnegut's The Sirens of Titan as a potential Book Club candidate. It's one of his lesser known brilliant books, but it's utterly fantastic in my humble opinion. I feel like there'd be a lot to discuss about this one because while the premise is a bit odd it's one of his more stylistically grounded novels, and people might find it more accessible than his other more bizarre works. 

 

For anyone who's interested I recently described it to someone like this: it's about a guy who goes into space with his dog and his physical matter becomes displaced so he can travel around the solar system. Every 59 days he returns to Earth to tell people about his visions of the future. 

 

Obviously there's more to it than that, and I don't want to give too much away, but if you're not sold on the idea of "Physically Unstable Space Prophet With Space Dog" as a concept then I don't think we can be friends anymore. And it's quite a short read (207 pages I think) so if anyone is inclined to do so they could give it a few looks over. 

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I just saw an interview with Ken Levine where he mentions "The Devil in the White City" as one of his inspirations for Bioshock Infinite.  The description of the book sounds fascinating, and it might be worth investigating as an option for the Idle Book Club.  I'm not sure if the writing is strong enough; from the samples I've seen, the prose isn't on the same level as a Thomas Pynchon or Hilary Mantel novel.   However, it could be an interesting way to marry the two Idle worlds for a brief moment.

 

If anyone has read "The Devil in the White City" by Erik Larson, perhaps they could post their opinions here.

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I really, really hated that book. The fair stuff is great, but Erik Larson really cheapens out the premise by actually narrating the inner thoughts of H. H. Holmes, and it is both completely generic and the worst published writing I've ever seen. It's a tremendous moral and artistic error, and I don't know whether he made it to amp up the pop-history aspect (which seems to have worked?) or just because he has no taste. Regardless, I've actively avoided his other books since.

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Speaking of historical fiction though, I just finished reading Ragtime for the first time and holy shit Ragtime. I'd love to hear your take on Ragtime. 

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Do you have link for the interview where Levine references Devil in the White City  as an influence? I'm trying to guess at what elements of the book he would have drawn from while making Infinite, but am coming up short. I'd guess it's the time period, but Devil in the White City is set in the late 1800's, and I thought Infinite was supposed to take place in the 1910's, so I'm struggling to see the connection.

 

I don't feel as strong of a hatred towards Devil in the White City as Greg does, but I agree that it is not a very deep book. In fact, reading that book is one of the main reasons I avoided historical fiction for such a long time; I assumed that all historical fiction was written in similarly pop, shallow style, but thankfully authors like Hilary Mantel and David Mitchell prove that historical fiction can actually be very worthwhile and meaningful as a genre.

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I think it's probably a combination of time period/aesthetic. You have this sense of American exceptionalism/triumphalism, rapid technological change, and a carnival atmosphere. There's an obvious literal reference: the name of Levine's city is Columbia; the Chicago World's Fair was named the "World's Columbian Exposition". One of the things I remember from Larson's book is the image of the World's Fair in decline: the buildings being made of wood and plaster, they literally dissolved over the autumn and were eventually lit on fire. You get the same sense from Columbia: it's a gaudy but tremendously fragile place. 

 

I wonder if Ken Levine read Against the Day, which also features the Chicago World's Fair. Against the Day (IIRC) also has weird science, including time travel, transforming battleships, airships manned by pulp stock characters, etc. Columbia would fit very comfortably into the world of Against the Day. 

 

E: I also didn't much like "Devil in the White City". The history of the fair was cool, but as a thriller/mystery/true crime novel it really stunk.

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Do you have link for the interview where Levine references Devil in the White City  as an influence? I'm trying to guess at what elements of the book he would have drawn from while making Infinite, but am coming up short. I'd guess it's the time period, but Devil in the White City is set in the late 1800's, and I thought Infinite was supposed to take place in the 1910's, so I'm struggling to see the connection.

 

I don't feel as strong of a hatred towards Devil in the White City as Greg does, but I agree that it is not a very deep book. In fact, reading that book is one of the main reasons I avoided historical fiction for such a long time; I assumed that all historical fiction was written in similarly pop, shallow style, but thankfully authors like Hilary Mantel and David Mitchell prove that historical fiction can actually be very worthwhile and meaningful as a genre.

 

 

It was an interview on Revision3 with Adam Sessler - it's actually an excellent two-part interview, but I put a direct link to the time where the White City was mentioned above. (Edit: the time stamp in the hyperlink isn't working, so skip to 1:21 to get to the part about his influences).  It's a shame that the book isn't stronger, since the subject is so interesting. 

 

On a related note, I have found that my tastes have changed dramatically since I started following the Idle Book club.  Now, I expect more from the books I read than I'll typically get from a traditional pop best-seller, so I don't think I'll be able to suffer through a poorly written work such as The Devil in the White City even though I'll probably enjoy the historical topic.

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Given the recent terrible news ( http://friends.banksophilia.com/ ) might I humbly recommend an Iain Banks episode? I think Walking On Glass or The Wasp Factory would make for a pretty lively discussion, though Dead Air might be interesting to revisit (or Complicity).

Just a thought. He really is a world class writer, and should be celebrated, I think.

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Given the recent terrible news ( http://friends.banksophilia.com/ ) might I humbly recommend an Iain Banks episode? I think Walking On Glass or The Wasp Factory would make for a pretty lively discussion, though Dead Air might be interesting to revisit (or Complicity). Just a thought. He really is a world class writer, and should be celebrated, I think.

 

I'm more a fan of his genre work, but I agree that we should read something by him. He's incomparable as a writer.

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I'm more a fan of his genre work, but I agree that we should read something by him. He's incomparable as a writer.

 

I don't know his genre work, but I do think it's one of the strengths of the man that he's managed to sustain two distinct and rabid fan bases for his genre and other work. I'd be down for picking up a Culture novel, if you had a recommendation.

 

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Use of Weapons is by far his best. It's better to get to know the Culture, if you have the time. Consider Phlebas is big and weird, while Player of Games is more conventional, both of which set your expectations for Use of Weapons to blow them out of the water. But if I had to choose one, there's no contest. Use of Weapons.

 

 

EDIT: God, I just clicked on your link and am floored. Between Banks, Ebert, and Satoshi Kon (who died three years ago, but I just found out today), the world seems like a pretty cold place right now. I hadn't liked the last couple Culture books very much, but parts of Surface Detail were showing something of a revival. I should probably feel blessed that he got one more written last year and that his fiction fans will get the same in a few months. Jeez.

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Roadside Picnic. Short, low sci-fi, classic Russian melancholic feeling throughout with great sections of tension.

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Given the recent terrible news ( http://friends.banksophilia.com/ ) might I humbly recommend an Iain Banks episode? I think Walking On Glass or The Wasp Factory would make for a pretty lively discussion, though Dead Air might be interesting to revisit (or Complicity). Just a thought. He really is a world class writer, and should be celebrated, I think.

 

I second this. Iain M. Banks is one of my favorite authors his work is consistently great over many many novels even if he arguably peaked after Use of Weapons and Player of Games.

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Has the next batch of Idle Book Club books been announced yet? I couldn't find anything, but there are so many possible channels (site, blog, forum, twitter, facebook, goodreads, podcast, etc.) that I could easily have missed it. 

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Not yet; they mentioned on the cast that they hadn't decided yet for what's after Wolf Hall. Maybe Zadie Smith's NW thanks to the villainous schemes of one Sarah Argodale, but we'll see.

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Not yet; they mentioned on the cast that they hadn't decided yet for what's after Wolf Hall. Maybe Zadie Smith's NW thanks to the villainous schemes of one Sarah Argodale, but we'll see.

 

 

Hmm, if I'd wanted to be villainous, I would have sent everyone a copy of Super Sad True Love Story.

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I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but you guys should read Catch-22, one of my all time favourite books.

 

Or if your looking for some modern Canadian fiction, I can recommend The Sentimentalists by Johanna Skibsrud, What We All Long For by Dionne Brand and More by Austin Clarke.

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Do you have link for the interview where Levine references Devil in the White City  as an influence? I'm trying to guess at what elements of the book he would have drawn from while making Infinite, but am coming up short. I'd guess it's the time period, but Devil in the White City is set in the late 1800's, and I thought Infinite was supposed to take place in the 1910's, so I'm struggling to see the connection.

 

I don't feel as strong of a hatred towards Devil in the White City as Greg does, but I agree that it is not a very deep book. In fact, reading that book is one of the main reasons I avoided historical fiction for such a long time; I assumed that all historical fiction was written in similarly pop, shallow style, but thankfully authors like Hilary Mantel and David Mitchell prove that historical fiction can actually be very worthwhile and meaningful as a genre.

 

Infinite is set in 1912 or 1913, but the fictional Columbia was constructed around when the Chicago World's Fair was held and is intended to be a fantastical representation of the kind of intense industrialization and innovation of which the actual World's Fair was emblematic. Devil in the White City was definitely read and frequently discussed by many at Irrational.

 

I share Greg's distaste for the Holmes parts of Devil in the White City, but I thought the parts about the construction of the fair itself were fascinating. That's entirely due to the recounting of the history rather than the skill of Larsen's retelling, but I'm glad I read about it at least. I agree the invented interiority was total garbage.

 

I never heard Against the Day mentioned in any context during my time at Irrational, despite it being brought up a number of times by journalists and other observers.

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I don't know his genre work, but I do think it's one of the strengths of the man that he's managed to sustain two distinct and rabid fan bases for his genre and other work.

 

I was always impressed by his range across the two bodies of writing. The intricate character work on his non-M. books seemed so opposed to the style of the M. books, where the characters were for the most part interchangeable, actors for expressing sociological concepts.

 

I would echo the recommendation of Use of Weapons. I've always thought it was unfortunate, although perhaps not entirely unfair, that his M. work was considered genre fiction rather than capital-L literature (unlike, say, Cloud Atlas or Infinite Jest).

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Infinite is set in 1912 or 1913, but the fictional Columbia was constructed around when the Chicago World's Fair was held and is intended to be a fantastical representation of the kind of intense industrialization and innovation of which the actual World's Fair was emblematic. Devil in the White City was definitely read and frequently discussed by many at Irrational.

 

I share Greg's distaste for the Holmes parts of Devil in the White City, but I thought the parts about the construction of the fair itself were fascinating. That's entirely due to the recounting of the history rather than the skill of Larsen's retelling, but I'm glad I read about it at least. I agree the invented interiority was total garbage.

 

I never heard Against the Day mentioned in any context during my time at Irrational, despite it being brought up a number of times by journalists and other observers.

 

Yeah, once I actually played Infinite the World's Fair/Devil in the White City connection became much more apparent.

 

It's weird that Against the Day was so quickly seized as a comparison with Infinite. I really got the sense that people wanted Infinite to be smarter than it actually was, so they tried pulling Pynchon in as a possible influence. Which is frustrating, because a game doesn't need to reference big works of literary fiction to be smart and trying to make a convoluted connection between a game and a book doesn't somehow retroactively elevate the original intention of that game. But that's just my own personal gripe on how books are used to discuss video games.

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I don't think the connections between Against the Day and Bioshock: Infinite are particularly convoluted, though. There is an extended sequence in Against the Day involving the Chicago World Fair and the "Chums of Chance", who are the youthful commanders of an airship. That sequence is written in a "boy's own" style that is not really all that far from some of the pulp references of Bioshock: InfiniteAgainst the Day also involves multiple universes, people encountering their "doubles", early American capitalism, 1900s-era pseudo-science, and a lot of other themes and plot points that Bioshock: Infinite hits. So if Bioshock: Infinite was influenced by Against the Day, it was in a very literal way.

 

Of course, it could just be a coincidence. But I'd prefer to believe there is a connection. How very Pynchonian. 

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I don't think the connections between Against the Day and Bioshock: Infinite are particularly convoluted, though. There is an extended sequence in Against the Day involving the Chicago World Fair and the "Chums of Chance", who are the youthful commanders of an airship. That sequence is written in a "boy's own" style that is not really all that far from some of the pulp references of Bioshock: InfiniteAgainst the Day also involves multiple universes, people encountering their "doubles", early American capitalism, 1900s-era pseudo-science, and a lot of other themes and plot points that Bioshock: Infinite hits. So if Bioshock: Infinite was influenced by Against the Day, it was in a very literal way.

 

Of course, it could just be a coincidence. But I'd prefer to believe there is a connection. How very Pynchonian. 

 

As a former Irrational employee I definitely don't think there was a connection--or rather, I don't think there was an intended or known connection on the part of the developers. 

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I'm going to recommend Vurt for no reason other than that it's weird, quasi cyberpunk.  Provided you can find a copy of it, great read.

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