Ouya: Ooooh Yeah!

[modeps]

Where did I read that Ed Fries is also somehow behind this?

He's not listed in the Kickstarter, he's listed on AngelList. It sounds like he's just a financial guy.

[MrHoatzin]

I somehow doubt he would throw money at something that was crazy pie in the sky untenable.

[Murdoc]

I somehow doubt he would throw money at something that was crazy pie in the sky untenable.

He must not have thrown a lot of money at it if they were on kickstarter asking for funds.

[MrHoatzin]

But they are asking for so little money—unless everyone in that demo vid was a hired actor/stock footage—the work that has already gone into this probably eclipses the kickstarter many times over. I could see how the Kickstarter could be their attempt to gauge the public's interest or a way to get out the word about their product. The game they're playing is so big that I doubt it is the money that they're really after here. The Kickstarter campaign is just free press with a cherry on top. If however they disappear tomorrow and the console never sees the light of day, then we'll know what exactly their game was.

[Murdoc]

Well, I'm on the skeptic side of things, so while there is a ton of work that could have gone into this, I see a bad idea and am taking it at face value.. A console design built on off the shelf existing specs and a couple logos and a Ui draft doesn't seem that hard to pull off.

A million dollars in terms of making a console is small potatoes, but it isn't "so little money".

Case in point I relate it to the last time I watched Shark Tank (And it was the last time for this specific reason) A designer showed up wanting to sell soap. She didn't talk about the soap, quality of soap, or anything unique about the actual product; in fact I;d wager she knows nothing about soap and the product they are selling is some shit manufactured in china. What she did do was make a package design, a skill and task given to every design student.

It was reasonably well done with an idea I didn't particularly care for or think was a super unique idea or especially stand out to go flying off the shelves. But it was informed and well constructed as a package.

It was a feeding frenzy over this thing, it was mind blowing.

Anyway, long story short, a good package design and pitch isn't hard to accomplish and can do wonders to cover up a shitty product or lack of ideas.

[modeps]

But they are asking for so little money—unless everyone in that demo vid was a hired actor/stock footage

If you watch the video it appears to be the firm that's doing the industrial design, Fuse Project. Basically, It's not even OUYA's staff. I went to Fuse Project's website and there are a couple pictures of areas that appear in the video.

[MrHoatzin]

Well, ok! But isn't this how open source projects are done? Put out a v1 and then iterate and improve upon it with user/community feedback? And speaking of it being a pirate's wet dream, I think their goal of building an effective curated marketplace should be enough of a deterrent against the kinds of piracy that actually hurt bottom lines.

I dunno guys! I still think this is not as horrible an idea as some people demand it be. From where I'm sitting it can go either way. And all it takes at this point for it to succeed is good branding and outreach. If they fail on the followthrough, they failed, sucks to be everyone who believed in this thing. People need to be making things for standardized open platforms, and I hope these guys are not out to fleece everyone as that would retard grass-roots open gaming by many years.

[Erkki]

I agree, this could succeed. I think they need luck besides the kickstarter money, though, and to fix the colorblind issue.

[SiN]

As I said on the last page:

I'd like for these guys to succeed, and I'm all for giving them the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not cool with how disingenuously they pitched this thing.

If they just came out and said, "yep, we're early in the process, this may take some time, we're working on dev support (you guys can help!)", etc, etc, I'd be more willing to support them. What they did instead is set an unrealistically early deadline, and name-dropped important people and games to sound more legitimate.

With Kickstarters I *really* feel like you need to be open about the process/what you've achieved/what risks lie ahead. I'm not feeling that here.

[MrHoatzin]

It's hard to miss that a lot of what they're doing is hypemongering—but I'm choosing to assume (because I am a starry-eyed optimist) the true audience for the hype are VC firms that they would go to with all this nice press and buzz and pitch the project for the REAL money that they're looking for.

[Iosef Stalin]

Instead of reiterating everything I've said, I'll post a link to my article. What grinds my gears the most is that there's clearly a lot of smoke and mirrors going on. In the video, Julie Uhrman states that the system will have Minecraft. That is a lie. There are no video game deals currently. The only confirmed app at all is the TwitchTV thing. 7 months to go from 'prototype' to full product with app store and UI? That's super aggressive for pretty much any proven company.

As a toy, OUYA may be fun to play around with but really, what developer will want to create games for a console when it can be rooted as a selling point?

Good article. I don't understand the mindset of these people backing this. "Oh man, $99 for an indie game console in a year or so, a steal!" Meanwhile over on Steam, you could probably get 50 indie games for that money with the sale.

[modeps]

Good article. I don't understand the mindset of these people backing this. "Oh man, $99 for an indie game console in a year or so, a steal!" Meanwhile over on Steam, you could probably get 50 indie games for that money with the sale.

Thanks. It'd be better to just wait and see than to commit the money now. I'd be much happier with a Steam Box whenever they get their 10-foot interface going. Once someone can figure out a low profile device like that with plenty of storage, they'll be the one to back.

[Murdoc]

A steam box would be something I'd get happy about for sure.

[Chris]

Everything about this seems ridiculous to me:

- The claims of "free" or "free to play" games, which just means every game will have at least a demo, which in turn means it's not an open marketplace and devs are going to have to deal with some kind of certification process anyway, which seems like the kind of thing you go to an open marketplace to avoid. Or alternatively, it's like the iOS app store, where staff just take stuff down out of the blue because it doesn't conform to the rules. The "free" thing seems really muddled and nonsensical.

- The notion that with almost nothing to show for themselves, they're going to design, manufacture, and bring this thing to market in under 9 months, never having shipped a hardware platform (and an entire network infrastructure, apparently??) as a company before.

- The game footage they were showing on the screen is clearly leagues away from what this thing will actually be able to output. Obviously they never claimed those games were running on this console (especially since I doubt anything is running on this console currently) but I think it's pretty misleading to fill your teaser video with footage of games that your system almost certainly won't have the horsepower to run, while talking about how much you love consoles and implying those are the games you love and thus want to facilitate.

- There are already a goddamn million platforms for developers to potentially support: PC, Mac, browser, iOS, Android (the kind with touch screens, meaning developers will still have to do new UI and gameplay development to port between mobile Android and OUYA), Xbox 360, PS3, Wii U, whatever else. My point isn't that most developers are actually supporting all of those simultaneously; it's that even with userbases already in the millions (for each of those platforms), established brands, capable hardware, and well-established online infrastructure, it's still INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT for an independent developer to reach a large audience on any one of them. Let's say this Kickstarter campaign manages to make it all the way up to $10 million by the end. Based on its current stats, that's 74,000 systems ordered (once you discount the proportional number of backers who don't pledge enough fro the system). Maybe that's just the tip of the iceberg and the thing ends up being a runaway sales miracle, but it's hard for me to see that as a starting point that's really going to open up a new massive audience of people--especially since I imagine most of those early adopters are people who already own multiple other gaming platforms. Sure, they'll be excited to buy stuff at launch, but are lots of developers going to want to invest the time and money into developer for a relatively small userbase that could just as easily be playing their games on other platforms they own?

- "Mojang has committed that Minecraft (and their other games) will be on OUYA -- but only if we prove that we can make a great product (that’s our job) AND enough people want their games (that’s your job). Show them with your numbers that you want Minecraft on OUYA!" Translation: "Mojang hasn't committed to anything except that they'll consider it." That kind of doublespeak rubs me the wrong way.

Edit: God, I just saw their survey of what games people want. This shit is unbelievable.

it says, "We've come up with a TOP 20 GAME SUGGESTIONS list. We're putting it in your hands once again: tell us which games you want to see on OUYA!" What exactly are they putting in our hands? The ability to have an opinion? They call it a suggestions list, then immediately imply it's somehow more than that. Same as with the Minecraft stuff; they butt up the fairly muted reality against the vague meaningless hype so as to associate themselves with much more legitimate enterprises and brands. Just look at this list of the most popular suggestions:

Battletoads (Tradewest), Mass Effect (EA), Torchlight (Runic), Call of Duty (Activision), Assassin's Creed (Ubisoft), Skyrim (Bethesda), Need for Speed (EA), Grand Theft Auto (Rockstar), Timesplitter (Eidos), Terraria (Re-Logic), Limbo (Playdead), Final Fantasy (Square), Minecraft (Mojang), FIFA (EA), Fez (Polytron), Battlefield (EA), League of Legends (Riot), Bastion (Supergiant), Super Meat Boy (Team Meat), Dungeon Defenders (Trendy)

More than half of those are massive brands from huge companies, and they're almost all games that are massively demanding on hardware; they would need entirely new games developed to have even the remotest chance of shipping for this platform. If these are the most popular games requested, people are clearly being misled about what this system is capable of and what the company is capable of. Now, maybe that's the fault of the backers in question, and they should be using some more common sense. (Although Ouya is clearly responsible as well, by actively stoking these flames with its own official surveys.) Regardless, this is potentially millions of dollars from many people who I imagine fundamentally misunderstand what this thing is and will be. I do not think that is a good foundation on which to build a platform.

[Twig]

Timesplitters?! Has that ever even had a PC release? I mean, I played the shit out of Timesplitters 2, and I'd love to own it on Steam or something, but I'm fairly certain it's always been console-exclusive. That and it's a dead series. What an utterly bizarre thing to see on a wishlist for something like this, even if it is pure fantasy.

[vimes]

4 million dollars and 36 000 backers ... I feel like I'm missing something, because to me, Ouya seems like a platform that wants to be a PC/Console/Mobile but

• does not have the powerful retail chain of traditionnal console makers (which, as I understand, the chief reason of their success)
  
• does not have the flexibility of PC gaming (what with developer having to go through a marketplace)
  
• does not have the huge reach of mobile (which means, no overnight million+ cinderella story ala Angry Birds)
  
• does not come from people with a serious track record in game dev tool (Their member page on Kickstarter states 'There are plenty of other people involved, but some of them would get fired if we tell you who they are.' Truly mature and reassuring statement)
  

What surprise and bothers me is that there are 550+ developers out there who thought it was a good idea to invest 700$ and more to have early access to a yet-to-be-talked-about SDK for an Android platform when there are free or cheap existing solution for that problem.

I'm confused.

[Nappi]

Haha.. That games list is truly ridiculous.

[MrHoatzin]

[Erkki]

Chris, you make good points but I still believe it can become a valid niche thing.

If the suggested games are based on the survey that was open to •everyone•, that just represents the interconnected tubes or something, not the backer's idea of what it is. I'm not a backer and I voted (for Meat Boy and some other games not in that list)

[Murdoc]

Battletoads (Tradewest)? As in the snes Battletoads beatem up? Has that been something that has been ported before or recently? I'm starting to think even the backers are in on a ridiculous prank.

[Ben X]

I hope they fund some cool games then with the extra cash, even a million of that could produce a variety of cool products.

We have a few programmers here, who wants to team up and pitch them an idea? Wouldn't mind clinging on to their bandwagon to get some of that sweet, sweet cash.

I'll write the nob jokes!

[Henroid]

Something to add to Chris' take on this:

People seem to be under the impression when it comes to porting games is that all that needs to be done is copy, paste, compile, and 'wheeee'. And while programming was my weakest point in IT education by a large margin I know enough that the process is more complicated than that. Same goes for dampening a game's resource demands to run on less efficient hardware. You're not just changing a number to a smaller one. Shadow processing alone is complex shit and the only swift way to change it is to axe it entirely. But retaining it in even a less detailed manner? That's work.

[Nachimir]

Okay, yeah: Their games survey is just fucked and fills me with scepticism.

I think:

Not one comparison I've seen to other devices, here or in the press, has been fair (i.e. it was based on much less common tech, it only launched in South Korea, it was a completely different type of device, etc.).

Something like this could do well.

It might not be these people, and if not they'll set the idea back by years.

They almost certainly already have backing from elsewhere, and if not, will be taking this kickstarter result to a lot of VCs very soon.

If they're not scamming, the $99 price is subsidised by that backing. If they manage to ship and retail is much higher, they're going to have 60,000 or so smug and very evangelical fans.

Something I'd really like to know is how all of the people quoted feel about the way their words have been used. Notch has certainly said a few things to temper it:

[SiN]

People seem to be under the impression when it comes to porting games is that all that needs to be done is copy, paste, compile, and 'wheeee'. And while programming was my weakest point in IT education by a large margin I know enough that the process is more complicated than that.

Totally right, and even without technical aspects, people forget that porting from one input type to another is not trivial. There are games that I've prototyped on a controller that would just not work with mouse+keyboard, vice versa, and so on. Because Ouya plays Android games, you're going to get a lot of bad ports. Even the "virtual dpad" games ... there are different design decisions between that and a real controller.

Something like this could do well.

It might not be these people, and if not they'll set the idea back by years.

I get the feeling that an Apple TV (box, not display) + App Store will be this. Same price, *much* better visibility, distribution, devkit, App Store, etc. The only piece of the puzzle that's missing is the controller. I'm pretty sure they won't make a conventional controller, but devs are smart ... we'll adapt.

[modeps]

It happened two days ago, but I didn't see it because I'm not a backer of OUYA. Julie Uhrman updated the Kickstarter with the following:

Games! Today Meteor, the maker of Hawken (a great-looking upcoming free-to-play mech game), just pledged that they’re also in on OUYA. We’re really honored to have great gamemakers supporting OUYA. Thank you so much to the developers who reached out, we’re trying our best to be in touch with you -- we know we still owe a lot of you responses.

@markvlong -- ‪#ouya‬ A crowd sourced, open, indie, free to play console?! Count Meteor in!

Then, in the conclusion:

So, there you have it, an update! Some games jumping on board, the scoop on the progress we’ve made with the product, and more rewards for developers.

"Some games" have not jumped on board. In fact, there are still zero confirmed. Average Joe is reading this whole Kickstarter as they've got Minecraft, and now they've got Hawken. Their "progress" with the product was basically them having a conversation with nVidia.

This feels very wrong.