The Nintendo Wii U is Great Thread

[syntheticgerbil]

Mobile controls are atrocious. I have never and probably will never like touch-screen only controls on those tiny smartphone screens. I've tried a huge number of games, and while I can get some level of enjoyment out of some of them, it's rare, and also it's never even near the level of enjoyment I get from more traditional games - be they PC, console, or handheld.

Agreed, I can hardly type a fucking text message without screwing up every third word. I can't imagine doing any kind of game that requires a lot of skill and precision control. Every game I have on an iPad is either incredibly passive or a frustrating waste of time. The big scree in there, but touch controls are just so mushy and unpredictable.

[Zeusthecat]

Man, I remember trying to play Super Mario Bros on an NES emulator on my phone and it was nearly impossible. Without any feedback from the virtual buttons on the touch screen it was super difficult to keep the B button held down and sometimes Mario would just stop moving because my other thumb had slightly moved off of the virtual d-pad. Touchscreens are great and all but they really do suck for most types of games.

[Thrik]

That relatively recent Android Sony phone that had the slide-out gaming controls was a really slick effort. If handheld gaming moved more in that direction it'd be great. Unfortunately the only company with the ability to do it well seems to be Sony as they're already very much entrenched in both the mobile phone and gaming worlds. I definitely agree that I hate touch-screen gaming unless it's something that just couldn't exist otherwise like Fruit Ninja.

I'd kind of love to see what kind of phone Nintendo would put together.

[Zeusthecat]

I'd kind of love to see what kind of phone Nintendo would put together.

 

 

I want one.

[JonCole]

Yes. Because it's been done. It's been done countless times, and it never ever works. It creates a chicken/egg scenario where consumers don't buy the accessory because game developers don't make it a requirement because it has a low adoption rate. It's the same reason why game accessories never reach a level of ubiquity where the consumer can be relied upon to buy an add-on.* What's more, there's not a chance in hell that a company like Apple is going to back down from their Minority Report monolithic aesthetic and produce/market a big ugly button attachment, and third-party solutions have demonstrably never caught on. You can't rely on optional accessories, full stop.

 

Furthermore, what would the point of Nintendo changing to different hardware and then deliberately changing the hardware to make it make it more like the kind they were already using? It would be an utterly pointless and roundabout exercising in accomplishing absolutely nothing. Honestly, the most frustrating part of having this argument over and over is that it always seems to come from the same corner of the internet that thinks Nintendo hardware is based on "gimmicks" and then wants them to move to a platform exclusively controlled by the same gimmicks. It's also a move that financially makes absolutely no sense. Why the fuck would Nintendo even bother thinking about iOS when you compare selling 12 million copies of Angry Birds sold through the app store for less than a dollar to easily selling nearly twice as many copies of the 99 dollar Wii Fit just a few years ago?

 

*the only exceptions I can think of are the Kinect, which kind of didn't go anywhere after its initial success thanks to a massive marketing push and then became a pack-in; Wii Motion Plus, which never caught on at all until it outright replaced the Wii Remote; the aforementioned Wii Fit balance board which didn't have enough audience crossover to even justify the handful of other compatible titles; and possibly the 360 controller for PCs, which is its own weird deal.

 

The advantage of co-opting another piece of hardware and implementing your own accessory is that you don't have to supply any of the most expensive pieces of hardware - the screen and processors. Nintendo has historically made a profit on hardware, but this generation is the first where they are losing money on every Wii U.

 

Also, I frankly think you have no idea what you're talking about when you cite those examples. I'm not saying that Apple and Google have revolutionized mobile gaming accessories, but they both have developed hardware standards and APIs for game controllers that still have yet to be fully exploited (considering in the case of iOS, it's not coming until iOS7 releases). So, unlike those shitty iOS controllers that you linked to, new controllers that are developed by those hardware standards will work with every game with controller support going forward. It's not going to be the scenario where this controller works for these games, and this other controller works for some of those and exclusively for a couple others. In essence, both Apple and Google are trying to replicate the 360 Controller on PC experience that you specifically cite, which could absolutely disrupt the mobile controller market and make it viable.

 

I don't really understand your reference to Wii Fit, as it doesn't seem to support your argument. If something sells 22 million copies and effectively is only useful for one thing that's not even a game, isn't that thing a gimmick?

 

Edit: Source on iOS controller support. Also the article brought up another thought in my mind - iOS airplaying to an Apple TV isn't a far cry from the Wii U, and the difference in the Wii U's graphical capabilities as compared to a iPhone 5 is not ridiculously large. This could potentially be the way that Nintendo is able to bridge their success in handheld to a greater success in consoles.

[tegan]

Wii Fit works in the same way that games like Guitar Hero or DDR have traditionally worked: you can sell a specialty accessory intended for one piece of software (and most importantly, packed in with it, which is completely impossible for digital releases), but for some reason it's incredibly difficult to move an accessory made as a general-purpose control input, from early attempts like the Power Glove all the way up to modern attempts like the Playstation Move. You flat-out can't rely on accessory to push your game. It's always been historically risky. I chose Wii Fit as an example because it's such a dark horse, but Nintendo's had no problem pushing out more recognized properties like Mario or Pokémon.

 

As for the iPhone controller, I am aware. And it's a joke. They're not producing the things themselves; they're farming design and production out to third-party companies Logitech and Moga, which does not inspire confidence. It also splits their userbase between not only those who decide to purchase the completely optional device or not, but also between iPhone 5 adopters who can use the more convenient attachable button array and anyone using literally any other iOS device and has to use the wireless controller instead (which kind of makes the whole deal no longer portable since it's not a single unit that can be carried in both hands).

 

 

I really don't know what else to say here. I've provided historical evidence, practical examples, and financial reasons; but I'm getting to the point where there's nothing else to argue without becoming rude, so I'm pretty sure I'm done with this thread for a while. It is, to be frank, a pipe dream. Nintendo does not need to make iOS games. Nintendo does not want to make iOS games. Nintendo would not benefit from making iOS games. The idea of Nintendo becoming a third party is and always has been based on people with rose-tinted glasses looking for cracks in a company that has, against all expectations from critics and pundits, continued to chug along even when it leaves those people behind.

[syntheticgerbil]

nintendophone.png

 

I want one.

Hahaha, brilliant! Speed dial with the A button.

[JonCole]

Wii Fit works in the same way that games like Guitar Hero or DDR have traditionally worked: you can sell a specialty accessory intended for one piece of software (and most importantly, packed in with it, which is completely impossible for digital releases), but for some reason it's incredibly difficult to move an accessory made as a general-purpose control input, from early attempts like the Power Glove all the way up to modern attempts like the Playstation Move. You flat-out can't rely on accessory to push your game. It's always been historically risky. I chose Wii Fit as an example because it's such a dark horse, but Nintendo's had no problem pushing out more recognized properties like Mario or Pokémon.

 

As for the iPhone controller, I am aware. And it's a joke. They're not producing the things themselves; they're farming design and production out to third-party companies Logitech and Moga, which does not inspire confidence. It also splits their userbase between not only those who decide to purchase the completely optional device or not, but also between iPhone 5 adopters who can use the more convenient attachable button array and anyone using literally any other iOS device and has to use the wireless controller instead (which kind of makes the whole deal no longer portable since it's not a single unit that can be carried in both hands).

 

 

I really don't know what else to say here. I've provided historical evidence, practical examples, and financial reasons; but I'm getting to the point where there's nothing else to argue without becoming rude, so I'm pretty sure I'm done with this thread for a while. It is, to be frank, a pipe dream. Nintendo does not need to make iOS games. Nintendo does not want to make iOS games. Nintendo would not benefit from making iOS games. The idea of Nintendo becoming a third party is and always has been based on people with rose-tinted glasses looking for cracks in a company that has, against all expectations from critics and pundits, continued to chug along even when it leaves those people behind.

 

I don't want to yank a true Nintendo fan out of a thread dedicated to a Nintendo console, so I'll let it rest with this post. I just want to make it clear that my opinion on this matter isn't one rooted in contempt or pessimism regarding Nintendo. I own a 3DS and I'm happy with my purchase. I'd probably own a Wii U if my budget supported it. I love Nintendo games. I honestly just want them to succeed going forward and I feel relatively optimistic about the potential for Nintendo to move on as a third-party. I don't think they have to do it to succeed, I just imagine that if they tried it they would indeed succeed and I would continue to give them my business happily.

 

I also selfishly just want the mobile gaming experience to be better. I don't think games are compelling on mobile platforms because developers who have my interests as a "core gamer" in mind are few and far between. It's the other reason why I would love Nintendo to do it - it'd potentially give me games that I'd actually want to play on mobile instead of microtransaction garbage and games with poor touchscreen UI. I have these stupidly complex dreams of a Pokemon iOS/Android game getting as ridiculously popular and huge as Puzzle & Dragons or a Dr. Mario game being as accessible Candy Crush. The truth is, I always have my phone with me and I don't always have my 3DS with me so I'm "forced" (yeah, not forced but it'd largely inconvenience me to do otherwise) to sift through mediocrity to find the rare diamond in the mobile rough.

 

Finally, not to mock you in any way at all, but "It is, to be frank, a pipe dream" almost made me fall out of my chair.

[tegan]

So The Wonderful 101 is out and -although I really didn't like the demo all that much- is apparently really super great. Did anyone get it? I hear it sold pretty terribly in Japan.

 

Also, the theme song is goddamned fantastic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W1Y_bGyck1E

[Roderick]

Hm, most of the stuff I read about it was pretty critical and down on it. Bad controls, not very fun, lots of wasted potential. Where did you hear it was super great?

[tegan]

Everything I've been seeing has been positive. Even 4chan likes it, and they hate everything.

 

 

Also, some actual news from the other day:

 

Wii Fit U is going to be kind of sort of FTP. If you already have the balance board, you can download it in the eshop and play for free for two months. After that you have to register it to the pedometer dealie (which you can buy separately for $20) in order to continue. The download offer will begin November 1st, the packaged version comes out December 13th, and the paid download version goes to regular pricing February 1st.

 

And in completely unexpected news, Wii Sports Clubs is a thing. It's all the original Wii Sports games released digitally individually in HD with new features, improved Wii Motion Plus controls, and online play. They'll be free for 24 hours following their release. After that you can pay $2 for a day pass or $10 to own the game outright. So if you want to keep bowling forever but just play a few hours of tennis with someone, for example, you pay $12.

 

Weird.

[JonCole]

I haven't heard anything distinctly negative about Wonderful 101, but it definitely had an element of high expectations in that it could potentially be The Game to Buy This Holiday Season for the Wii U that made the Good/7 reviews seem more negative than a review with that kind of score should seem.

 

I have to say, Wind Waker HD is really making me want a Wii U. I was very content to not be interested in it at all, but then I made the mistake of reading a few reviews that were more or less like "this is definitive version of Wind Waker" or "Wind Waker just needed a little push to get it to perfect, and guess what it happened in HD". I'm not going to be able to afford one any time soon, but it moved ahead of the XB1 in terms of next console I want to own which is an achievement in itself.

[Sno]

Hm, most of the stuff I read about it was pretty critical and down on it. Bad controls, not very fun, lots of wasted potential. Where did you hear it was super great?

The Giant Bomb quicklook makes it look really fantastic.

There is some divided opinion out there about it, but it definitely seems like it has a lot to offer.

[Roderick]

Well, the Polygon review springs to mind as one that laid bare some deep concerns with the game: http://www.polygon.com/2013/9/10/4714292/the-wonderful-101-review

 

Not saying it's the only one out there, but I've read it more.

[BigJKO]

I am extremely tempted to get a Wii U once its price drops on the 4th of October (here in Europe).. Ugh.. must resist.. Wind Waker... HD!

 

(..it really looks good. It's a bit different, perhaps not all for the best, but all in all so much good stuff. The new dynamic shadows look so good..)

[Sno]

None of what they're doing with Wind Waker HD seems all that essential, a few debatable gameplay tweaks and a rather minor visual overhaul that, personally, i don't think even looks as nice as the original game.

[JonCole]

To some extent, native 720p/1080p over 480p is enough to make me interested in most Xbox/PS2/GC -> current/next-gen ports. I'm not snatching every single one of them up, but if a game is good enough for me to want to play again I'd rather do it at the resolution my television natively displays.

[BigJKO]

Fair enough, Sno. But for someone like me who never finished the original because of the long endgame, I'm pretty happy with the new gameplay changes.

Add to that the higher resolution, the dynamic shadows in outdoor scenes (which is HUGE, every scene in the original had the shadows drawn into the textures, meaning those needed to be removed and the scenes relit) and this seems like a solid remake to me..

I'm really sad they did away with a lot of the color contrast (the skies notably being less blue!) but I can live with those things.

I think they've done a great job and far more than a lot of last-gen to HD ports have (as far as I'm aware, at least)

[JonCole]

This looks like a pretty big graphic upgrade, side-by-side:

 

 

Not to mention the Wii U controller pad and soundtrack upgrades look/sound pretty slick.

[Thrik]

Holy shit. I'm a couple of minutes in and I already know I'm buying a Wii U and this at some point.

[dartmonkey]

Those comparison videos are nice. Other than the bloom lighting, the remake is how WW looks in my memory anyway. Nostalgia is kind to jaggies.

I'll pick this up with a Wii U eventually, possibly at Christmas if I can find a white one for £150.

[Squid Division]

The remake looks fantastic, but the video does emphasize how well the original has held up.

[Thrik]

Yeah, that's what I thought. The remake is very authentic to my memories of the game, my brain even remembered it being more vibrant and smooth like the remake is. Of course, I know from spending just a few seconds with the original that it's a huge improvement over the blur-o-matic GameCube version and has basically turned the game into the timeless piece it deserves to be. Now, if only similar love were applied to things like Grim Fandango and Banjo-Kazooie...

[dartmonkey]

Banjo??!! *Homer-style dribble

 

B-K on XBLA was the barest minimum HD upgrade, but it still hit the spot for me. But I have regular day dreams where Nintendo buy B-K back from Microsoft for 50 quid, reassemble the old Rareware team, name it Bareware and let them make games next to a big poster of DK64 with a cross through it.

[miffy495]

I pre-ordered Wonderful 101 after the demo came out and I liked it. It is now on my coffee table. If/when I actually have time to PLAY the damn thing, I will report back.