Iron Brigade

[Thrik]

What, because I used a couple of swear words? I wasn't attacking anybody, and I explained my points. Even if you disagree with them you should have had the common decency to respond respectfully. I've posted here regularly for seven years and I think by this point most people know I'm not some random fanboy who deserves to be spoken to like a dickhead.

It might be worth clarifying that I'm an avid supporter of all platforms, and own a highly-specced gaming PC in addition to the 360 and PS3 (although other than for Team Fortress 2 and the eventual Battlefield 3 it was hardly worth building). I regularly play PC games and am fully aware that the platform still gets games released on it. Not all of them are even bad (ports). I'm not a fanboy of anything. Or maybe I'm a fanboy of everything. I don't know.

The point is the platform is held back significantly and is treated like a piece of shit by most publishers and developers, rather than being the arena of innovation and cutting-edge technology it used to be. Bad Company 2 had issues that it shouldn't have had because it was — as admitted by DICE — not treated as a lead platform; Crysis 2 is full of horrible issues that are indicative of second-class treatment; and the strategy games you named are always going to be decent on the PC because it's the only platform you can feasibly play them on right now. And that's still a paltry number of games in comparison to the consoles' releases.

[Thrik]

I'm not sure how you ascertained that I think it's the PC's fault it's treated like shit Kingzjester. I don't.

I don't know who or what to blame for it being in its current state, but you guys being surprised by or disappointed in Double Fine for not releasing games on it puzzled me. I'd have thought you'd be used to good games not being released on it by now, because most aren't or are do so badly.

[Tanukitsune]

Guys, can we at least admit that maybe some developers and publishers don't want to make games for PC?

elmuerte, you just had some bad luck with the whole DLC incident, the rest of us are pretty happy with PSN and XBL. It was a very rare event, that doesn't make PSN terrible.

Also, you're mentioning mostly, small press and indie games or RTS and MMOs... That's not helping your cause.

Aren't we getting screwed on the PC? Where the hell is Minerva's Den on PC? How many of the multi platform games are not getting ANY DLC on their PC version?

Sure, Bioshock Infinite and other upcoming games will look infinitely better on PC and like shit on 360, but the PC version is likely to get NO EXTRA CONTENT!

Face it guys, some developers and publishers don't like the PC very much.

[MrHoatzin]

Dude, all the best games released lately are PC games, what are you talking about?

[Tanukitsune]

PC exclusives? That's a matter of opinion...

You guys realize that is a futile fanboy war in which everybody thinks the other side is hopeless fanboy and won't admit they aren't fanboys because they obviously are because "Insert format here is superior"

You guys think me and Thrik are hopeless console fanboys... Yeah, right... I bought a brand new PC because I think PC gaming sucks...

And I think you guys are being fanboys too, you keep spewing games you like at me and brush off everything I said...

DERP DERP TANU DOESN'T GET IT!

[Nappi]

I would think that, for instance, Hothead wasn't worse off for releasing Deathspanks on PC. In fact, it seems that many people here, including me, only bought it after the PC release. I understand why we are not going to see Uncharted on PC, but I see no reason why recent Double Fine outings couldn't be released on PC as well. They seem to be fairly low budget games and I'd much rather compare them to Deathspank than Uncharted or Bioshock or whatever.

But to be honest, I don't understand this whole discussion anymore. I'm puzzled by some people being puzzled that other people are disappointed by a company's decision not to release their games on platform X even though they should be used to that by now. What's so strange about that?

Guys, can we at least admit that maybe some developers and publishers don't want to make games for PC?

Looking back at what has been said in this thread it seems that no one has been denying this. I also see no point in we collectively admitting it.

[elmuerte]

elmuerte, you just had some bad luck with the whole DLC incident, the rest of us are pretty happy with PSN and XBL. It was a very rare event, that doesn't make PSN terrible.

That's not the only issue with PSN. The amount of spam I receive through PSN is also ridiculous for a system as closed as PSN.

PSN is even worse than gfwl w.r.t. logging in (it's quite slow) and patching games. It also has the steam "feature" where it denies you from playing a game when there's a patch for it.

And then there's the thing about PSN region locking. Did you know that, just like Valve with Steam, Sony granted itself the right to block your account completely when it notices "fraudulent" behavior. Which includes claiming you live in .jp to get access to the japanese PSN store.

Disk based PS3 games might be region free, but stuff from the PSN store might not be, and it's not just DLC, but also complete games.

Seriously, what's so great about PSN? It's a frigging walled garden.

Edited March 4, 2011 by elmuerte

[Tanukitsune]

That's not the only issue with PSN. The amount of spam I receive through PSN is also ridiculous for a system as closed as PSN.

PSN is even worse than gfwl w.r.t. logging in (it's quite slow) and patching games. It also has the steam "feature" where it denies you from playing a game when there's a patch for it.

And then there's the thing about PSN region locking. Did you know that, just like Valve with Steam, Sony granted itself the right to block your account completely when it notices "fraudulent" behavior. Which includes claiming you live in .jp to get access to the japanese PSN store.

Disk based PS3 games might be region free, but stuff from the PSN store might not be, and it's not just DLC, but also complete games.

Seriously, what's so great about PSN? It's a frigging wallet garden.

Where have you heard this? Most of my friends have a JPN PSN account and I listen to a few podcasts and shows that live in the US but play JP PSN games. I ever trying to look up if I could get in any trouble for getting a Japanses PSN account and this is the first time I've heard of this...

I've also never heard of the "locking you out if you haven't updated" thing either and I can assure my PS3 logs in 10 times faster that my 360.

Since when are PSN games region locked? Like I said, I know a lot of PSN users that use international store and I've never heard of this either.

Any why is it a waller garden? Because it has a wallet? At least it's better than Microsoft banana points!

[elmuerte]

It's stated in most of the PSN EULAs that they can shut your account down for those fake accounts (you are faking an address).

As for the possibility of region locking PSN games, it's part of the functionality, but hardly anyone uses it.

also, typo, I meant to say walled garden

[Tanukitsune]

Some countries aren't even listed on the PSN drop list, what are they supposed to do? Return the PS3 to the shop and say they can't use it because the EULA says so? An EULA they can only read once they've BOUGHT the console?

[syntheticgerbil]

Wow, this last game was unexpected. I think it looks like a lot of fun and I'm really happy with how many different games from one company are being released from the same company. I really like the art style on this, it's like the generic browness but with splatches of color scattered around. Also chunky, heavy robots are my favorite kind of robots.

Sucks it's Xbox only, as there doesn't seem to be any reason it should be. If it's a publisher issue like said, isn't it still THQ right now who put all games out so far for both HD consoles? Oh well, I suppose I'm still getting a 360 somewhere down the line, so no difference.

Wonder who's heading up the design on this one? I'm guessing it's not Ron Gilbert then. That makes me think the Gilbert game might be longer with a little bit more development time, just for hype's sake going off of Deathspank.

It looks hilarious! If you see it as generic, I don't think you watched the same trailer. It is completely over the top ridiculous.

Haha, that's exactly what I saw. I got a major Starship Troopers vibe from it. I don't think this will be a generic mech game, but it might play like regular mech games. Honestly, I have no idea what mech games even play like, so I don't know whether I'm fit to do any comparing.

...but I am surprised at how plain and normal looking the characters are. I would have preferred the cartoony look of Brutal Legend or Team Fortress 2... but I don't want to second guess until I see more.

Some of the soldiers do look exaggerated from far away, but the main character shown is disappointingly bland. I don't know if regular human proportions go with the environment and style of robots here, I agree.

But still, mechs in 1950's (?) with generic looking characters doesn't sound that appealing.... Double Fine is known for making weird, practically bat shit insane worlds, this sounds so tame compared to their other premises.

I think it's kind of weird to pigeonhole them where every game Tim Schafer or his company is involved in must have a bunch of unrelated elements meshed together or be completely weird.

I mean, Costume Quest wasn't insane, and I'm sure the Sesame Street game won't be either. It's not like all games they put out should be on that extreme. Just sayin' at least, a little change can be a good thing.

[Nappi]

Wow, this last game was unexpected. I think it looks like a lot of fun and I'm really happy with how many different games from one company are being released from the same company. I really like the art style on this, it's like the generic browness but with splatches of color scattered around. Also chunky, heavy robots are my favorite kind of robots.

Sucks it's Xbox only, as there doesn't seem to be any reason it should be. If it's a publisher issue like said, isn't it still THQ right now who put all games out so far for both HD consoles? Oh well, I suppose I'm still getting a 360 somewhere down the line, so no difference.

Wonder who's heading up the design on this one? I'm guessing it's not Ron Gilbert then. That makes me think the Gilbert game might be longer with a little bit more development time, just for hype's sake going off of Deathspank.

Yeah, I love the fact that the mechs are actually mobile trenches. And very impractical at that.

For some reason it's Microsoft Game Studios this time around. And Brad Muir's name was tossed here at some point.

[syntheticgerbil]

For some reason it's Microsoft Game Studios this time around. And Brad Muir's name was tossed here at some point.

Haha, sorry, I posted before reading the whole thread and had just finished the first page before asking questions. Dumb of me.

But I did see Vimes put up Brad Muir's name on page 2, but thank you as well! The original link didn't say.

Also I understand now why it's Xbox only, because of the whole MGS publisher thing. That makes sense. My question is now, is there any reason a Microsoft Game Studio Published game cannot make it to PC? Maybe they might announce it down the line? I don't really know the history of MGS published games for Xbox also having a PC release.

On the arguing on page two, I think everyone here is right to some degree on all of the variables and possible disappointment a singular platform game can bring on, although I don't know if some of you have to get at eachother's throats about it, but I'm going to quickly go down the line I guess:

Pyschonauts suffered from poor sales, can you blame them for being cautious?

See you say this, but I don't think Psychonauts sales were really that poor. To me it just seems like they didn't sell as much as hoped, which I figure most games do. Majesco apparently changed their course after Psychonauts, but reading about it seems like Majesco wasn't fit to publish games and they had made some other gambles as well.

And then you say this:

And no, I'm not implying that any DF game is bad, but the game industry is rabid pack of hyenas that will tear your game to shreds and getting 25.000 in sales when they expect 30.000 is a failure.... a "bad" game

Which seems to happen too often with games, very unfortunate. It seems really idiotic and unfair the game sale system is like this now when it doesn't seem like it was this way 15 years ago.

I mean, I'm just super fucking annoyed that the wikipedia page for failures in commercial games has every big budget Double Fine game so far:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_failures_in_video_gaming

I'm not about to get into some back and forth argument with the one wiki dude that watches this page like a hawk and made it his own since I don't have any evidence, but it seems to me that if a game falls short of sales, it's obviously not some commercial failure. The fact that Double Fine is not dead after one (or two) commercial failures seems reason enough that neither Psychonauts or Brutal Legend would be considered a failure. Surely nothing they've done is on the scale of most of the blunders on this wiki list.

Also since Grim Fandango is on here as well, I get the feeling that someone who wrote a lot of this page just hates Tim Schafer.

Not to mention that what a failure is now is much more than it was before, how many companies have been forced to close down because they got a 7.5 in reviews? More than I'm comfortable with.

Not really saying you're wrong, I'm just curious if you can provide evidence of this.

You're not going to get big sales when you're being too careful. A lot of things were done wrong in selling psychonauts. The biggest mistake was to delay the game for over a year in Europe.

I agree, almost all success stories seem to involve a dire risk being taken at some point. Also with more smaller games coming out, it seems Double Fine can afford to be more risky. I also feel Majesco did somewhat of a poor job marketing Psychonauts. I don't remember much going on in the way of getting the games name out besides a very stylish website. On the other hand, I feel EA did a great job with Brutal Legend, so it's unfortunate that game didn't meet their expectations.

I would think that overall, the most obvious way to release a game would be to put it on every platform available. I have no idea what kind of cost goes into that sort of thing, but someone might end up being surprised of the sales, especially on PC, which everyone owns anyway.

This is Idle Thumbs, adventure, retro, or low-budget European games is all we're about! (You forgot RTS games though)

I think you're joking, but it's really annoying to say that. Although a lot of the earliest members here (and myself as well) are into that stuff, I think almost everyone here tends to safely branch out and are not just stuck playing one archaic type of game or style. I still love that stuff, except RTS, but I think if not for Idlethumbs in 2004, I probably would not have branched out as much as I have or targeted my career path towards games.

I've also never heard of the "locking you out if you haven't updated" thing either and I can assure my PS3 logs in 10 times faster that my 360.

How have you not seen this? The only time I'm ever logged out when the console is on is when a system update has been forced upon me and I can use no online services at all on the console until I download and install the update.

[Erkki]

The PC is the best platform now and forever, everyone who things otherwise must remember that there are such things as wrong opinions.

[Tanukitsune]

Haha, sorry, I posted before reading the whole thread and had just finished the first page before asking questions. Dumb of me.

But I did see Vimes put up Brad Muir's name on page 2, but thank you as well! The original link didn't say.

Also I understand now why it's Xbox only, because of the whole MGS publisher thing. That makes sense. My question is now, is there any reason a Microsoft Game Studio Published game cannot make it to PC? Maybe they might announce it down the line? I don't really know the history of MGS published games for Xbox also having a PC release.

On the arguing on page two, I think everyone here is right to some degree on all of the variables and possible disappointment a singular platform game can bring on, although I don't know if some of you have to get at eachother's throats about it, but I'm going to quickly go down the line I guess:

See you say this, but I don't think Psychonauts sales were really that poor. To me it just seems like they didn't sell as much as hoped, which I figure most games do. Majesco apparently changed their course after Psychonauts, but reading about it seems like Majesco wasn't fit to publish games and they had made some other gambles as well.

And then you say this:

Which seems to happen too often with games, very unfortunate. It seems really idiotic and unfair the game sale system is like this now when it doesn't seem like it was this way 15 years ago.

I mean, I'm just super fucking annoyed that the wikipedia page for failures in commercial games has every big budget Double Fine game so far:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_failures_in_video_gaming

I'm not about to get into some back and forth argument with the one wiki dude that watches this page like a hawk and made it his own since I don't have any evidence, but it seems to me that if a game falls short of sales, it's obviously not some commercial failure. The fact that Double Fine is not dead after one (or two) commercial failures seems reason enough that neither Psychonauts or Brutal Legend would be considered a failure. Surely nothing they've done is on the scale of most of the blunders on this wiki list.

Also since Grim Fandango is on here as well, I get the feeling that someone who wrote a lot of this page just hates Tim Schafer.

Not really saying you're wrong, I'm just curious if you can provide evidence of this.

I agree, almost all success stories seem to involve a dire risk being taken at some point. Also with more smaller games coming out, it seems Double Fine can afford to be more risky. I also feel Majesco did somewhat of a poor job marketing Psychonauts. I don't remember much going on in the way of getting the games name out besides a very stylish website. On the other hand, I feel EA did a great job with Brutal Legend, so it's unfortunate that game didn't meet their expectations.

I would think that overall, the most obvious way to release a game would be to put it on every platform available. I have no idea what kind of cost goes into that sort of thing, but someone might end up being surprised of the sales, especially on PC, which everyone owns anyway.

I think you're joking, but it's really annoying to say that. Although a lot of the earliest members here (and myself as well) are into that stuff, I think almost everyone here tends to safely branch out and are not just stuck playing one archaic type of game or style. I still love that stuff, except RTS, but I think if not for Idlethumbs in 2004, I probably would not have branched out as much as I have or targeted my career path towards games.

How have you not seen this? The only time I'm ever logged out when the console is on is when a system update has been forced upon me and I can use no online services at all on the console until I download and install the update.

Well, the studio behind Project Gothan Racing is closed and they were pretty good?

I was being funny, the " " is the "obvious sarcasm" smiley for me. I mean it's called the "Ha ha, no!" smiley isn't it?

Hmm, I don't remember the last update, but maybe I just don't do anything else until I update?

I can understand your frustration with that wiki page, apart from the horrible ones like Pac-man for the 2600 the rest are classics that everybody should try to play at least once.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Stop talking utter shit.

You're turning into Kingz, Patters.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Guys, can we at least admit that maybe some developers ... don't want to make games for PC?

Face it guys, some developers ... don't like the PC very much.

It's THE PUBLISHER who decides what platform they're going to release a game on. I'm sure Double Fine would LOVE to be paid to take their games onto other platforms. A games studio being paid to make games = Happy game studio.

Do you think they dislike Wii, DS, and PSP, too? If they're being PAID to release a game on another format, then why on earth would any development studio decline? (Unless there was a serious lack of development skill available in-house, but that's another thing entirely... it's not like they wouldn't want their games on other platforms!)

You could argue that DF should shop around until they find a publisher that is only going to publish their games onto every format, but that's a different discussion. DF aren't publishing these games. It's worth adding that after nearly going bankrupt during the making of Brutal Legend, I'm pretty sure they're not in the greatest place to be picky about what deals they get.

If these four titles sell well, maybe they'll be in a better position to shop around for the perfect deal, but right now I'm sure they're probably trying to find some stability while improving their status in the gaming world.

[MrHoatzin]

You're turning into Kingz, Patters.

[lobotomy42]

I'm sad to say that I'm not enamored with the concept of this game. I get that it's a humorous take on Mech Combat, but...I don't know, it's just not doing it for me. It's not that I have anything against combat-ish games, it's just that there are already so many of them.

But I'm glad that Double Fine is trying so many different things at once! I really like this approach to doing games - small, short, and varied in approach. It means that even if Double Fine produces two games I don't much care for, they also produce two games I love! I wish more big studios would diversify their offerings like this.

[vimes]

But I'm glad that Double Fine is trying so many different things at once! I really like this approach to doing games - small, short, and varied in approach.

I completely agree; I'm very happy that Double Fine is choosing this way of making games because I get to see more of their output. It might not always be for me or top notch, but they are one of those few studios whose games transpire with the personnality of their authors; And I love that.

I also hope this approach proves to be successful so that heavy publisher studios like the one I'm working in would be more confident about taking the plunge. Heavy weight games with long dev cycle are very gratifying in their own way, but I'm pretty sure everybody involved in gamemaking would prefer working on those every 2 or 3 years while making shorter games in between. I know I do.

[syntheticgerbil]

Also it's neat that it allows other at the company to become lead designers, writers, or directors, when they may have not been able to once before in their whole life. Many companies tend to use the same leads and positions game to game and moving people around probably creates a nice breath of fresh air.

This is sort of lifting from Lee Petty talking on that recent podcast though, heh.

[twmac]

Would just like to say, apologies for the minor (ill-conceived) rant.

The choices we make in life are ones we have to deal with. Yes, it makes sense to lament not being able to play a game, but the comments were heavily negative in a way that made it feel like you were saying the game was shit because it wasn't on your chosen platform. In the classic 'Fox that can't reach the grapes' way (it is a Hans Christian Andersan fable about a fox that tries to reach some grapes but after failing he just assumes they are sour). If this was a misinterpretation of the comments I apologise.

Elmuerte, you do realise part of the delay for Psychonauts was to localise all the dialogue? They even hired the woman who does the German version of Bart Simpson to do the comic delivery for Raz's voice.

They were trying to make the game a better game for everyone, look where that got them.

[thorn]

EDIT: Damn this website's embedded-flash restriction policies. Follow this link to see the video: http://www.g4tv.com/videos/51653/trenched-first-look-preview/

So it's more of a Tower Defence game with shooting aspects? Starting to sound a little more interesting.

[Kolzig]

They are keeping up with the quality voice acting, the guy mostly heard as a voice actor there was at least in Grim Fandango and propably bunch of other LucasArts games, at least I remember hearing his voice in many old LA games.

[Noyb]

Eased most of my fears about the story and character. It would be really refreshing if some of the player characters were legitimately physically disabled. You don't see that too often in games (Harman Smith from Killer 7 is the only one that comes to mind).

Their marketing angle is a bit weird, since it seems to be addressing people who haven't been following the Tower Defense genre with an innovation that has already occurred multiple times over. I wouldn't consider myself a fan, but even I can name a few TD games which give you control over an avatar to attack enemies with: Lock's Quest (NDS), Immortal Defense (PC indie), Toy Soldiers (XBLA).