Is anybody a sad human like me, and have not played any LucasArts adventure games?

[Nappi]

Discworld 2

I'm (re)playing this at the moment. I lost count how many times the game has made fun of adventure game traditions, mainly fetch quests, or otherwise broken the fourth wall. Yet, it is pretty much as traditional an adventure game as one can be.

And I noticed none of this on my first playthrough a long time ago..

[syntheticgerbil]

I've played Discworld 2 twice through. I remember it as being really easy, almost an apology for the first game. Am I wrong about this?

[Ben X]

Tanukitsune, I believe most people use 'point and click' as a synonym for 'adventure game', even though literally it should apply to any game with movement and button controls.

[Tanukitsune]

I'm pretty sure point and click is synonymous of mouse controlled games?

[Nappi]

I haven't played enough of the first game to make a comparison, but Discworld 2 is certainly not one of the hardest adventure games I have played. However, it is not ridiculously easy either, in my opinion. Haven't encountered any poorly designed or unfair puzzles yet, which is nice. Except maybe for the one where you have to put sticker that says "10" to a 1 ton weight to make it heavier.

[Ben X]

I'm pretty sure point and click is synonymous of mouse controlled games?

Sorry, when I said "I believe most people use", I meant "everyone but you definitely uses".

[CaptainFish]

I hate adventure games. I forced myself through Grim Fandango for the aesthetics. Tried the monkey Island remake more recenlty and it was terrible.

PnC doesn't do it for everyone.

"This genre doesn't do it for me" sounds a lot less extreme than "I hate this genre".

The art?

The SE art was pretty bad, but the rest of the game is still okay, or at the very least not terrible.

I take it back, the only LucasArts adventure game I've played is the first Monkey Island remake, and I wasn't a huge fan. My problem was that a lot of the time the point and click puzzle combinations were really unintuitive as a result of the weird humor.

Best example I can think of was the pot for a helmet. I didn't feel like the game established a theme or anything for its wacky puzzles so I didn't think to look for something like that. Also, in the remake it was flattened into the background so I just presumed it WAS part of the background

Not getting the puzzles is a great reason to not like an adventure game. However, I still think there is enough outside of puzzles to enjoy in the genre. Yes, a good adventure game should have puzzles that are hard but make sense, and make you feel good when you solve them, but I've used hints (UHS) going through a lot of those old games, and still really enjoyed them. When I get super stuck, and the puzzle is just a gate preventing me from getting to more interesting dialogue, or cool art and music, I will gladly hint past it.

I've been playing Malcom's Revenge, and that game reminded me of the other stuff I don't like about Kyrandia: the repetitive puzzles. You can't hint past 1000 oar rows, or bringing someone 12 sprouts.

[elmuerte]

I've played Discworld 2 twice through. I remember it as being really easy, almost an apology for the first game. Am I wrong about this?

It was much easier. But you were probably more experienced in the bizarreness in how to solve certain puzzles.

[CaptainFish]

Ok, so more Malcolm's Revenge. I'm at a point where I am literally just MMO grinding to proceed. Warning, if you haven't played this I am about to ruin a "puzzle." I need to go to the jungle, cut down foliage, gather bones from the dead leaves, then give the bones into a dog, and then when he digs a hole to hide the bone, he might find one of 6 gems. I've fuckin' found like 50 of these goddamned bones and still don't have all the gems. This is some real tedious stuff here. I don't think I'm going to finish this until EA releases a patch to improve the bone drop rate on the foliage.

Sweet, while I was writing this post, Malcolm died of having too many fleas.

Edit: Okay, I've been doing this for about an hour, and I'm done trying to find this gem. Had me and lost Kyrandia 3.

Edit 2: I lied 20 minutes later, I'm gemmed up.

Edited August 23, 2010 by CaptainFish

[Tanukitsune]

Ok, so more Malcolm's Revenge. I'm at a point where I am literally just MMO grinding to proceed. Warning, if you haven't played this I am about to ruin a "puzzle." I need to go to the jungle, cut down foliage, gather bones from the dead leaves, then give the bones into a dog, and then when he digs a hole to hide the bone, he might find one of 6 gems. I've fuckin' found like 50 of these goddamned bones and still don't have all the gems. This is some real tedious stuff here. I don't think I'm going to finish this until EA releases a patch to improve the bone drop rate on the foliage.

Sweet, while I was writing this post, Malcolm died of having too many fleas.

Hey, I think I remember this part! Can't you take a mud bath to get rid of them?

How did I remember that? I only played the game ONCE over TEN years ago!

[CaptainFish]

Hey, I think I remember this part! Can't you take a mud bath to get rid of them?

How did I remember that? I only played the game ONCE over TEN years ago!

You're totally right, you can also pick them off one by one.

[Squid Division]

Not getting the puzzles is a great reason to not like an adventure game. However, I still think there is enough outside of puzzles to enjoy in the genre. Yes, a good adventure game should have puzzles that are hard but make sense, and make you feel good when you solve them, but I've used hints (UHS) going through a lot of those old games, and still really enjoyed them. When I get super stuck, and the puzzle is just a gate preventing me from getting to more interesting dialogue, or cool art and music, I will gladly hint past it.

I completely agree. But it's frustrating when the actual game mechanics just don't work at all for you and you don't feel like you can progress because the puzzle logic doesn't click beyond 'combine everything with anything'.

I did try out the first Broken Sword game and it was fun. I didn't finish it, but its real-world setting made the combinations more intuitive.

Alternatively, I love the new Sam and Max season, so who knows.

[Noyb]

Obscure commercial adventure games... Anyone else played Tony Tough and the Night of Roasted Moths? The first-person edutainment adventure game Operation: Weather Disaster?

I'm (re)playing this at the moment. I lost count how many times the game has made fun of adventure game traditions, mainly fetch quests, or otherwise broken the fourth wall.

I still remember when Rincewind

invoked the many-worlds hypothesis to trick a dim-witted troll into believing that since an alternate world existed where he could have already completed the fetch quest, he should be allowed past.

[syntheticgerbil]

Sorry, when I said "I believe most people use", I meant "everyone but you definitely uses".

I'm going to come to Tanukitsune's defense and say I have heard the term point and click used in reference to mouse controlled games in general many times throughout the 90s, especially RTS, but more often than not, it is yes, now used for adventures almost exclusively.

I've been playing Malcom's Revenge, and that game reminded me of the other stuff I don't like about Kyrandia: the repetitive puzzles. You can't hint past 1000 oar rows, or bringing someone 12 sprouts.

Haha, those oar rows... You know I think if you do like 20 or so, Malcolm starts saying 997, 998, and confuses the guard, then you get off the island.

THAT IS ONLY ONE OF 6 WAYS, ADVENTURER. God, Kyrandia 3 is a mess. Such a shame.

Ok, so more Malcolm's Revenge. I'm at a point where I am literally just MMO grinding to proceed. Warning, if you haven't played this I am about to ruin a "puzzle." I need to go to the jungle, cut down foliage, gather bones from the dead leaves, then give the bones into a dog, and then when he digs a hole to hide the bone, he might find one of 6 gems. I've fuckin' found like 50 of these goddamned bones and still don't have all the gems. This is some real tedious stuff here. I don't think I'm going to finish this until EA releases a patch to improve the bone drop rate on the foliage.

Oh man, more terrible design. I hope you figure out the way to place the gems on the altars, because I remember that taking forever.

A tip though, the best way to get those gemstones is the save first, try a spot, then load if a gemstone doesn't appear. This is no excuse, it's terrible design, but it'll alleviate some of the frustration of puzzles like that.

Once you get out of the jungle though, the game starts being less idiotic, more linear, and making more sense in terms of puzzles, so hopefully it'll end up nicer near the end. I think later one you have to still collect x amount of stupid thing once or twice, but then you should be good.

Obscure commercial adventure games... Anyone else played Tony Tough and the Night of Roasted Moths?

That game was very pretty, I played the demo. I did not think it was going to be very fun or interesting to play thought. Maybe it's because I have played a lot of adventures, but I have way less patience for un-top notch adventure game design these days.

Also the second game looked gorgeous as well, but same thing...

I do want to play all those Daedelic games, even if the gameplay and stories are mediocre. Their art direction for everything is strong enough that I feel like I should just attempt to get into them, even if Whispered World didn't end up so well.

Edited August 24, 2010 by syntheticgerbil

[CaptainFish]

Once you get out of the jungle though, the game starts being less idiotic, more linear, and making more sense in terms of puzzles, so hopefully it'll end up nicer near the end. I think later one you have to still collect x amount of stupid thing once or twice, but then you should be good.

I just finished it up. I really enjoyed the middle game. It became very similar to 2, where you're just going to weird new locales. This game seemed a lot shorter than 2, probably because of the branching paths. I didn't really care for the plot either, it doesn't really match up with 1 at all. Meh.

I can't believe they make you go back to the jungle, although that puzzle sequence is a lot better than the first one.

Also, a worse version of the Roger Rabbit store is in this game. In that game you had a store where you could only buy the one randomized item that appeared. In this, it's the same deal with the buying, but it also randomizes what you can sell, including several items you can't have at that point.

I feel like in some ways, Kyrandia 1 (which I really like) and 3 have similar design ideas to interactive fiction. Things like managing inventory, light combat, and having to drop things in places and navigate mazes remind me of IF, and the magic+inventory idea is very reminiscent of Zork 2. The forests in 1 have that feel of a grid based map of kinda empty rooms with a few interactions. Rooms that after you're familiar with them you could just blaze through in a parser, but Brandon will just slowly lope across. I don't think there are any multiscreen-wide rooms with scrolling. In some places they may have forgotten that backtracking, repetitive animations and actions are much more tedious and time consuming than in a text adventure where it's fine. I could also just be an impatient dude.

[Nappi]

I still remember when Rincewind

invoked the many-worlds hypothesis to trick a dim-witted troll into believing that since an alternate world existed where he could have already completed the fetch quest, he should be allowed past.

Yeah, I really enjoyed that one. Rest of them haven't been as smart.

[Roderick]

CaptainDish, you totally made me want to replay Malcolm's Revenge. Sure, it's got horrible design bits, but it also has murderous squirrels and a deadly mime. Not to mention a fantastic McGyver joke and a fake audience laugh track.

[Kolzig]

Obscure commercial adventure games... Anyone else played Tony Tough and the Night of Roasted Moths?

I remember this game, it was one of those games that seemed to me to be replicating the Day of the Tentacle feeling, but the voice acting and story sucked as those were very bad.

I didn't know that the Italian guy made a sequel to Tony Tough called Tony Tough 2: A Rake's Progress.

I have not played the Kyrandia games in ages, the second one always seemed the best to me. I did get through all of them, but I played them: 2, then 3 and last the first one. So not exactly in the chronological order.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Kolzig

[CaptainFish]

CaptainDish, you totally made me want to replay Malcolm's Revenge. Sure, it's got horrible design bits, but it also has murderous squirrels and a deadly mime. Not to mention a fantastic McGyver joke and a fake audience laugh track.

Now I feel like a butt for being overly negative. The game does have fantastic music, the tic-tac-toe theme is amazing. I kept the studio audience on for the whole thing, although I wish they had thrown in some other reactions than just laughter though. I really enjoyed the whole Good, Nasty, Badass Nice, Normal, Lying conversation mechanic. The whole waterfall section is probably one of the most interesting puzzles I've ever done, requiring you to test all your options to discover the mechanics of the place. That section is really good because it doesn't punish you for making a mistake or trying something new. I also think the multiple paths idea is interesting.

[Roderick]

For some reason the micro-system-based elements in Malcolm's Revenge really do it for me. I love that you can get caught by doing this or that and you get sent to prison. And there's this weird rudimentary alchemy system where items are useful for various things that's strange and undecipherable, but also has a charm.

All of this is just to say, it's such a weird game. I can see how it doesn't have universal appeal. But for me it ticks such an array of boxes just right that I love it.

[syntheticgerbil]

I've always felt like there was a lot to like about Malcolm's Revenge. I think they just had way too many things going on at once.

The first part of the game has six different ways to leave the island. There's no way of knowing which path you are on or if what you are doing is helping your puzzle at all. It's fun to do all of the paths and see what's what, but when I first played it, I was very overwhelmed.

The only other crap thing is finding 10 of this, 10 of that, but I think all Kyrandia games pull stunts like that.

[Roderick]

In Hand of Fate you had to create potions via an alchemical process involving either randomly spawning items (shells on the vulcanic beach or snowballs) or actual hardcoded items (the infamous 'toadstool'). Fun in itself, of course, though at times very confusing.

[syntheticgerbil]

I was thinking more of the part where Zanthia is trying to get to the center of the earth from the Volcanic island and you collect all of this crap for all of these people that does nothing in the end. I was never sure if they were making fun of themselves, adventures, or what?

Also you could create the flying shoes on that part, which also did virtually nothing. I'm always going to wonder what exactly was cut there because the back of every Kyrandia 2 box shows Zanthia in a red dress with those flying shoes gaining on the hand while it's on the rainbow. I think this screenshot appears in the manuals too.

[Roderick]

More weird Westwood goofs: on my box of Lands of Lore 1, it says that the evil witch Scotia wants it all, the whole world 'including Keanu Reaves.'

Yeah.

[syntheticgerbil]

Haha, wasn't that when Keanu Reeves was still more well known for Bill and Ted? Who wants that?