Obligatory comical YouTube thread

[Roderick]

Crows with tools?! This is the fucking end. All hail Corvus Sapiens!

Love the politics in this thread. As a Dutchman, who lives in Commieland, I must say that while politics everywhere have a tendency to get either corrupted or populist (I despise with passion the current rise of populism, it makes me extremely wary and depressed for our political future), I do believe there is a way to make it work. It's the social liberal (European version of the) third way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way_%28centrism%29. It's a meeting of 'capitalism' and 'socialism', so to speak, with a free market restricted by government surveillance and rulings, an emphasis on education and technological advancement, and pluriform consensus. Ideally (a personal preference) it nudges a little to the left when it comes to keeping some service-based industries in the hands of the government, such as postal services, energy provision and public transportation. It goes without saying this system works very well with health care plans and a social safety net.

We have a system that works roughly like this in the Netherlands, though in the last decade it's been steadily undermined and broken down by the illconceived desire to privatize everything and diminish the government. There is an absolutely astonishingly stupid hatred towards the government here, and a resentment towards civil servants. Our country works fine, and yet people act as if we've got a huge, sluggish bureaucracy that's weighing us down. The truth is that we're one of the most efficient (non-corrupt) bureaucracies around. Yet stupid populism and the rise of idiotry (I can only assume??) seeks to burn it to the ground for no good reason but a gut feeling.

Oh democracy, save us from yourself!

Sorry for the rant!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Sorry Kingz, but you're being unnecessarily harsh on Thompson, and he's absolutely right: We don't have a valid alternative. Also, you have mistakenly claimed that Canada and Europe are "socialist"... workers do not control production here, any more than they do in the US.

You also dismiss his very real points: Communism and (pure) socialism have never actually "worked" without creating systems where the people have no freedom. Could they ever work, or will we always have Stalins, Maos, Il-Sungs? History is not on our side, unfortunately.

As I already said, everything has to work in balance: America is not about to turn into a socialist state, but fear of that happening (and losing "freedom") seems to be pushing Americans so far to the right (towards insano-capitalism).

I can't help but think that Thompson has been singled out and dismissed because of his age, despite the fact that he made several valid points.

I hereby withdraw my vote for your presidency.

Edited February 5, 2011 by ThunderPeel2001

[Snooglebum]

You're welcome. Asshole.

I made an effort to not be patronizing or dismissive, though those were my knee-jerk reactions. I could've said, You don't know shit about fuck, son, come back when you have studied world affaires some more, but I didn't. If you look closely, past the obvious and true accusation you've quoted, you will see that I did actually explain why your primary premises on which you've based said opinion are false. You have a tidy and appealing, but overly simplistic and faulty opinion on your hands there.

Wow. WOW. Okay, I can't pretend to be interested in politics, but I know enough to know that Thompson at least had some idea of what he was talking about, even if the opinion was a little simplistic. But you're being extremely unpleasant about it. Instead of acknowledging his opinion, even if you don't consider it valid, you're completely dismissing him on a personal level. Not only that, but you're pouring pure aggression and venom towards internet him, just because he disagrees with you. Alright, fine. He's 17. I'm 17, and maybe we haven't researched politics nearly as much as you. But does that really justify your vitriolic response?

[DanJW]

This page does not yet have an amusing yoututbe video upon it.

Behold this capitalist marketing propaganda!

R55e-uHQna0

It's Obligatory.

[elmuerte]

that's because it's not funny, but dumb

[Orv]

that's because it's not funny, but dumb

I find it hilarious, if you're talking about the VW commercial.

[MrHoatzin]

I don't think we're reading and responding to the same stuff here. I have absolutely not singled out Thompson for his age. What I have said is very much a critique of his confrontational tone and his fluffy content. Nothing more.

The notion that communism failed because people are greedy is silly and simplistic. The notion that management will not give up the opportunity to control others is silly, because there were centers of power and control structures in communist countries and they were far more oppressive than the capitalist management (by and large and in recent memory). "Capitalism is the way the human race runs," is a truism, and a wrong one since human race has existed for far longer than capitalism. Plus, it goes against a lot of the science that is presented on the first page of that TED talks thread. That communism can never work, is also truism. And the quoted passage from NYRB about China was supposed to illustrate that communism is still around, whatever its form.

And he kept juxtaposing capitalism with some "perfect system" that people here are allegedly advocating and want in place TODAY, daring us to tell him he's wrong... That is silly! I don't want a perfect uncapitalism to rule us all, or whatever, I just want a more just society. And as somebody mentioned, what we have around us is not even capitalism. Adam Smith wouldn't be able to recognize what we have going on. I think Smith's vision of capitalism is a really awesome society, but it really has very little to do with the large scale global thing that we have going which in turn is hardly deserving of credit for how awesome the global society is. All of that is half baked.

Sorry Kingz, but you're being unnecessarily harsh on Thompson, and he's absolutely right: We don't have a valid alternative. Also, you have mistakenly claimed that Canada and Europe are "socialist"... workers do not control production here, any more than they do in the US.

There is no full-on socialism, but governments in many countries generally own utilities and have true monopolies over some industries. I did hedge this statement. There is socialism in Europe and Canada, which is not to say that Europe and Canada are thoroughly socialist. They are kindof comprehensive. Which US is not. US is dogmatically laissez-faire.

Also, I totally conceded his point that there is no viable alternative. I said, "I will not argue with you that the left has yet to offer an alternative to capitalism. Postmodernism is not as good at generating Visions Of The Future that can inspire people as modernism was."

You also dismiss his very real points: Communism and (pure) socialism have never actually "worked" without creating systems where the people have no freedom. Could they ever work, or will we always have Stalins, Maos, Il-Sungs? History is not on our side, unfortunately.

I did not dismiss that at all, since those are not points that he tried to make.

I can't help but think that Thompson has been singled out and dismissed because of his age, despite the fact that he made several valid points.

Again, no. I have been harsh. I'm sorry for being harsh. I am more sorry for being perceived as harsh, frankly, than being harsh, but I am sorry for both regardless. It's the internet thing. Imagine all that calmly stated rather than bellowed...

Granted, I did say he was being a dick, but he was not being a dick because he is 17, he is being a dick because he presented all these alleged show-stoppers that were in fact a warm pile of unhelpful common wisdom. No one is talking about throwing capitalism away and replacing it with a utopia. Talking in those terms—denigrating any alternative to capitalism that people may bring up as a utopia or needing to be perfect to compete as viable—is antagonistic to further conversation, hence dickish, hence unimaginative. QED.

I don't think it is in anyone's interest here to go "ABOOBOOBOO, poor Thompson got bullied by a belligerent slav!" None of this is personal. And I am peeved that you automatically assumed otherwise.

I hereby withdraw my vote for your presidency.

Oh, noes! There goes 100% of my hypothetical constituency which doesn't even live in this country.

nKoB8TPyHBo

[Orv]

I would totally get some hamsters if I didn't think Aurelius would eat them the moment I stepped out of the room.

[vimes]

Maybe not funny, surely old, but definitely awesome :

y4ctbmJuGSE

5fMZLYsWLuw

[OssK]

HAHA, lol, politics, capitalism rofling

s8Y8HWlJQiE

[Thompson]

7OjipBe2s-I

Less funny, more amazing. This went down the other day 1 and a 1/2 hours drive from me, we got flash flooding too.

[ThunderPeel2001]

[Thompson's] notion that communism failed because people are greedy is silly and simplistic.

And yet that is what history has taught us. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Il-Sung. As soon as folk got into power, they went back on what they said. I've just watched a bunch of Chomsky videos were he repeatedly states this. It's also the reason that those with communist sympathies can say things like, "well, Communism has never really been tried".

I'm not saying I agree with everything Mr. T said, but he certainly had more to say than you seem to want to admit.

I think we all agree on one thing you said, anyway: We want a more just society.

All this is moot, however, because Ronald Reagan has just pwned Socialism!

Not.

8gIxuOabGBE

[Snooglebum]

Well, now that that unpleasantness is hopefully over, back to actual comical videos! Such as this one!

c9eGtyqz4gY

Someone's excited.

[Orv]

Well, now that that unpleasantness is hopefully over, back to actual comical videos! Such as this one!

Someone's excited.

Already posted in the "V The Elder Scrolls" thread. *Cough*

[Wubbles]

Was Freeman's Mind posted?

7J80KD4BG7M

[Thompson]

Was Freeman's Mind posted?

7J80KD4BG7M

Unfortunately, yes. Although I forget when and where, so it's probably fine.

[OssK]

8gIxuOabGBE

First story : one answer «And wouldn't you think that refraining from getting two yatchs for the good of your country would seem like the right thing to do ? Or are you just such a hole that restraining from killing your neighboor seems like an infringement on your freedom to be a dick ?»

Answer two : at no point in the story did he said that there was a tax relief for creating a company and state advisors to help you, or that the whole farm of the story did not just happened, it was built and probably by the State.

That it could also happen in a capitalist world : "no, I don't want to get on a new project, I'm working three jobs because I'm underqualified and so I won't help you grow you whateverz…*Or just because the safety of my everyday life is enough for me…" (also, everybody knows that when you try to start a firm or company, you should go to people who percieve the minimum income and / or state help rather than the farmer…)

So, to both, supes, very nice stories but made up bullshit that don't apply at all to the real world, welcome to Sarah Palin's world…

also funniness :

PSEYXWmEse8

[Snooglebum]

Already posted in the "V The Elder Scrolls" thread. *Cough*

BUT NOW IT IS IN IT'S PROPER COMICAL PLACE

[Roderick]

THIS IS NO COMEDY THIS IS OUR LIFE

Also, thank you for posting Freeman's Mind. I had wanted to see it for a while, and now finally have begun. It's terrific.

[Sully907]

I think it's a little disingenuous to say the US has a dogmatically pro business policy. Our poor people pay little to no income tax, receive massive refunds, there are thousands of social programs in place, job placement, unemployment assistance. These are programs that we wouldn't have if we were evil capitalistic pigs that only wanted to keep the little man down. It's all about having a balance, and by and large, the US has had it, which is why we've been such an economic power for the last 60 years.

[MrHoatzin]

I think it's a little disingenuous to say the US has a dogmatically pro business policy. Our poor people pay little to no income tax, receive massive refunds, there are thousands of social programs in place, job placement, unemployment assistance. These are programs that we wouldn't have if we were evil capitalistic pigs that only wanted to keep the little man down. It's all about having a balance, and by and large, the US has had it, which is why we've been such an economic power for the last 60 years.

US, of all the industrialized western nations, has for a long time now had the worst safety net, the least comprehensive medical coverage (while at the same time one of the most inefficient and most expensive medical systems), the longest work hours per week vs the lowest productivity, the most litigious pandemonium in civil courts, the most people in prisons per capita, the most punitive laws against poverty, and so on. The right side of the political spectrum is always super poised to be as cruel as possible to the weakest people who are least likely to fight back—far more so than the right ever is in Europe. In Europe both sides of the spectrum have a kind of respect for the downtrodden, and a kind of understanding that "trickle down" and "raising tide" are not the same thing.

An example! Welfare to Work program is one of the most sinister Republican programs ever. It is a perfect example of the barbed frontier welfare that is practiced in this country; it is a system that is supposed to stick it to those welfare queens (a republican PR invention to discredit poor, generally black people) to not just sit on their asses, but to develop a solid Calvinist work-ethic, and in the process pay back the state the money they took from its generous teat.

Basically, poor people at the end of the line get an option to join this program and get some money from the state for some time. Then they have to pay it back by working as a ward of the state—like parole, or what used to be known back in the day, indentured servitude. The state in turn rents the services of these people, usually for dirt cheap (with probably some tax incentives to make it extra savory for the parasitic quarters of the free market), to some local service-providing businesses, usually companies that staff mall concession stands with unskilled workers in the rich-ass town one hour away from where that "welfare" recipient lives.

It is a kind of horrible feudal arrangements which do not help the person at all, they just perpetuate the cycle of downtroddenness and ultimately punish more than they help. They happen all the time in America but are unheard-of in Europe.

Of those 60 years you mention, the last 30 (like I have mentioned) have seen a kind of stagnation of the entire middle class with all the fruits of the on-going boom going to the richest 15% of the population. Plus, as the financial crisis has taught us, a lot of those gains in wealth are entirely fictitious—generated by the perpetual-money-making machines in a giant circle-jerk of inflating property—entirely happening inside mathematical simulations (stock market fail-safe computers, collateralized debt obligations, etc.) tacked on an irrational system (cattle/people who have no real idea or desire to understand what they're buying or selling) governed by a magical invisible hand metaphor (the Holy Ghost).

OBLIGATORY:

AsgA5qxEy_Y

[Sully907]

Ah well I guess those businesses should just take in those unskilled workers out of the goodness of their heart over more qualified candidates just to be nice and help the downtrodden. Not like those business owners have families to worry about or anything.

[OssK]

Ah well I guess those businesses should just take in those unskilled workers out of the goodness of their heart over more qualified candidates just to be nice and help the downtrodden. Not like those business owners have families to worry about or anything.

Yeah…*I mean, Kingz is just asking them that, exactly. Please give all your money to the poor and be a poor instead of them…

You're just being *generic asshole internet person* there, do you even see what your argument is ? Nobody's talking about that, Kingz implies that help systems can be cyclic conservators of social status or pushing up. The example he gives is a cyclic one out of which the poorer can't get out.

Business owners have a family to take care of and their workers don't ? I mean yeah, you are pulling out of your ass that 90's picture of the volutary unemployed who smells and can't even talk proper english (probably an immigrant) and the business owner who has a wife, kids, is well established and has two cars. They both are equal in human needs, and no, you can't have a yatch when others don't have food or a roof to put on their heads, your parents should have taught you that.

To paraphrase :

Poors will be richs' equals when you'll see underqualified, good-for nothing poors running companies.

kKO9h-gG4Qg

Edited February 9, 2011 by OssK

[Roderick]

Wow, we were having a generally cool, discussion in this topic, but suddenly it's a polarized mess again. You commies un yer socialist way'uns! Thanks, Sully.

Supersonic Electronic can not match this, because it was a real thing:

kA5GkLM5C7M

[Kolzig]

Why you posted a horrible blast from past of Finland, damn you Rodi, damn you.

Danny aka Ilkka Lipsanen is the most horrific artist this country has ever produced.