Sign in to follow this  
Jake

True Detective Weekly 8: Omega Station Pre-Discussion

Recommended Posts

Was this the final episode of the season? i.e. If I want to listen to the season 1 rewatch is now the right time to subscribe to TDW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was this the final episode of the season? i.e. If I want to listen to the season 1 rewatch is now the right time to subscribe to TDW?

 

It was the last episode of season 2, they are still two episodes behind on the season 2 podcast. Not sure if they will do 7 and 8 in one go or what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got it, thanks!

 

Turns out they did release an episode 7 cast and forgot to post it here, i did not subscribe because i rarely can watch on sundays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the last episode of season 2, they are still two episodes behind on the season 2 podcast. Not sure if they will do 7 and 8 in one go or what.

 

The episode 7 podcast was released a week ago. Or am I missing something here?

 

Edit: Nevermind.

 

Edit2:

 

Never mind
Never mind
I live the life
I left behind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The episode 7 podcast was released a week ago. Or am I missing something here?

 

Edit: Nevermind.

 

Edit2:

 

Never mind
Never mind
I live the life
I left behind

 

And just now they posted Ep 8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just listened to the podcast. WAS the Osterman guy Caspere's son? It sounded like the chief was saying that the girl was Caspere's daughter (shades of the classic "father finds out prostitute is his daughter" urban legends) but that maybe the mother was pregnant with another baby? I couldn't quite figure it out. The Oedipus connection obviously works better if Osterman was his son of course, and didn't know it when he killed him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Thinking more last night and today, most of the issues that I have with the second season really boil down to how close the conspiracy was to the surface and how little the writing bothered to make the characters' unique qualities instrumental to discovering it. The corruption surrounding the parcels of land was mostly explained in the first episode, with Blake's later revelations about Agranov's involvement just providing a wrinkle. The intentional poisoning of the land, which I thought was going to be a major tentpole of the conspiracy, was handled with a brief visit to a surveyor and a couple of explicit statements by Frank in random conversations, with the mysterious "Chessani Lodge" studies proving so straightforward as to be a nonissue. After spending multiple episodes on these mysterious sex parties, all it takes is Ray to tail the most suspicious man in Frank's organization to uncover all the substantive details of those parties, about which everyone suddenly seems to have always known afterward, and then it's trivial for multiple people to infiltrate (I shouldn't be so hard on this aspect, since it's the closest the show gets to actually solving a mystery). The whole business with the pawnshop was understood in its entirety over the course of two episodes, needing only a photo, a talk with a retired cop, and a brief search through a database to expose. The Ostermans are discovered by an improbable connection between a random mention from Vera, a comparison between two blurry photos, and then some conjecture. There's nothing at work in the second season that wasn't just sitting there, waiting for literally anyone with an interest to find.

 

This actually touches on something that I think is a permanent flaw with True Detective. I mentioned how season 2 did a better job than season 1 of actually focusing on the conspiracy, and not just brushing it under the rug but while that's true, BOTH seasons introduced a ton of characters and plot elements that ultimately just kind of disappeared. Season 2 was more egregious in this regard, but season 1 was arguably more offensive because the characters/threads it left dangling (most notably Audrey Hart - I almost wrote Audrey Horne!) seemed much more important to the story.

 

The weird thing about Pizzolatto's writing is that he essentially seems to be setting up multiseason shows even though he knows he is only writing 8 episodes. So stuff like the Pano...etc etc Institute is set up like it's going to be this ominous, fascinating linchpin but ultimately consumes maybe 6 or 7 minutes of screentime over the course of the series and is brushed aside in the rush to the finish. If this shows went on for several seasons, or even a season that was twice the length, it could do that normal TV thing of "now on this episode we're going to hone in on Ani and her father" or "now we get to discover the crazy shit that Pitlor is up to" or "let's dig into Tony Chessani's crazy life" (someone elsewhere pointed out that, even though he was essentially the chief villain of the story, his role is essentially a one-scene walk-on). It could patiently unveil every little nook and cranny of this universe, while slowly advancing the main story.

 

Instead, if sometimes feels like we're getting a sampler plate of a show instead of a banquet. True Detective Digest, so to speak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ended up really liking the opening music for this season, at first I was kinda cold towards it. I love when the backup singers start especially.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just listened to the podcast. WAS the Osterman guy Caspere's son? It sounded like the chief was saying that the girl was Caspere's daughter (shades of the classic "father finds out prostitute is his daughter" urban legends) but that maybe the mother was pregnant with another baby? I couldn't quite figure it out. The Oedipus connection obviously works better if Osterman was his son of course, and didn't know it when he killed him.

Yep it was the daughter not the son.

 

Comments on shows where everyone dies:

I would like to mention that Angel is the only other show I can think of that ends with all or a lot of the characters dying. They only show one actually dead, but it is heavily implied that they all die in the end. (There are sequel comics that have them all in hell, so dead.)

 

The Shield also did this to some extent, of the original team only one is a alive or not in jail. One died a few seasons earlier, but the last episode one is dead, the other imprisoned and the last guy has confessed all the evil shit he did in exchange for immunity.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This actually touches on something that I think is a permanent flaw with True Detective. I mentioned how season 2 did a better job than season 1 of actually focusing on the conspiracy, and not just brushing it under the rug but while that's true, BOTH seasons introduced a ton of characters and plot elements that ultimately just kind of disappeared. Season 2 was more egregious in this regard, but season 1 was arguably more offensive because the characters/threads it left dangling (most notably Audrey Hart - I almost wrote Audrey Horne!) seemed much more important to the story.

The weird thing about Pizzolatto's writing is that he essentially seems to be setting up multiseason shows even though he knows he is only writing 8 episodes. So stuff like the Pano...etc etc Institute is set up like it's going to be this ominous, fascinating linchpin but ultimately consumes maybe 6 or 7 minutes of screentime over the course of the series and is brushed aside in the rush to the finish. If this shows went on for several seasons, or even a season that was twice the length, it could do that normal TV thing of "now on this episode we're going to hone in on Ani and her father" or "now we get to discover the crazy shit that Pitlor is up to" or "let's dig into Tony Chessani's crazy life" (someone elsewhere pointed out that, even though he was essentially the chief villain of the story, his role is essentially a one-scene walk-on). It could patiently unveil every little nook and cranny of this universe, while slowly advancing the main story.

Instead, if sometimes feels like we're getting a sampler plate of a show instead of a banquet. True Detective Digest, so to speak.

 

I agree, it does seem like the way that Pizzolatto prefers to convey the density of his plot and his world is simply by introducing a lot of different elements and treating them all as important to the audience. I'm also just beginning to wonder at the viability of the eight-episode format for seasons. I was bored through so much of this season, but like you said, the problem was more that the episodes were usually paced for a much longer season, only punctuated by overly dense and elliptical lore dumps to make up for lost time.

 

Comments on shows where everyone dies:

I would like to mention that Angel is the only other show I can think of that ends with all or a lot of the characters dying. They only show one actually dead, but it is heavily implied that they all die in the end. (There are sequel comics that have them all in hell, so dead.)

 

The Shield also did this to some extent, of the original team only one is a alive or not in jail. One died a few seasons earlier, but the last episode one is dead, the other imprisoned and the last guy has confessed all the evil shit he did in exchange for immunity.

 

Lost, too, as well as countless anime, but they don't count, probably.

 

 

EDIT: Having listened to the podcast, I like Argobot's and Chris' defense of the ending, but I simply cannot see it their way. Both Jordan and Ani fight tooth and nail to be a part of the action, but instead are both ordered (and in Ani's case, literally compelled) to follow the wishes of the men who would and have sired children on them to flee and survive, wishes that are unconditionally vindicated by the outcome of the story even though the men themselves reject them as impossible for their own characters. To me, it'd be an argument for breaking the cycle of toxic masculinity if Jordan or Ani had deviated from or elaborated upon the plans of Frank and Ray, but they don't, as far as I can recall. They execute them perfectly and are rewarded with a "happy" ending, embodied in the new life of Ani's son. Honestly, it's the same problem that I had with the ending of the first season: Marty and Rust are rewarded for their macho bullshit with celebrity and near-martyrdom, even though the same impulses were shown throughout the show to be destroying their respective personal lives.

 

Also, yay! My dopey fan-theorizing about Rust as a red herring in season one got mentioned!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones!

 

Sorry, when I was listening to the podcast I was basically shouting this at my phone. I know it might not be seen as a highly intellectual show or what have you, but killing off main characters is pretty much a trademark of Game of Thrones at this point. For better or for worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After listening to the episode, I think I've got an explanation for why Velcoro meets his end amongst the Sequoias.

The Welcome to Vinci podcast states that the location used for filming is called Balch park which is about 4 hours north of Where Vinci (Vernon) would be. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure one of the final shots of Ray's dashboard shows that he's just flat out of gas.

So Velcoro drove as far as he could, but eventually ran out of fuel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After listening to the episode, I think I've got an explanation for why Velcoro meets his end amongst the Sequoias.

The Welcome to Vinci podcast states that the location used for filming is called Balch park which is about 4 hours north of Where Vinci (Vernon) would be. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure one of the final shots of Ray's dashboard shows that he's just flat out of gas.

So Velcoro drove as far as he could, but eventually ran out of fuel.

 

Ahh, that makes a ton of sense.

 

I thought the ending in the redwoods was meant as a counterpoint to Frank's ending in the desert, two different  and striking California landscapes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one would use a film camera for that purpose. Seeing those photos hanging off a wire was such an anachronism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just listened to the podcast. WAS the Osterman guy Caspere's son? It sounded like the chief was saying that the girl was Caspere's daughter (shades of the classic "father finds out prostitute is his daughter" urban legends) but that maybe the mother was pregnant with another baby? I couldn't quite figure it out. The Oedipus connection obviously works better if Osterman was his son of course, and didn't know it when he killed him.

 

I thought that was what was said/implied. Either way through it caused Osterman to blow his lid versus letting Velcoro gather his information, and led to everything going south with respect to being able to clear his name.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the "Sara take". I don't think it was really going to make them any safer by killing gangsters and stealing money. They both knew they were going to die if they stayed. I don't see it as heroic it was really just stupid. They were trapped by their idea of what a man does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious to know what the thumbs make of the various criticisms going the rounds in the mainstream press regarding the season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the "Sara take". I don't think it was really going to make them any safer by killing gangsters and stealing money. They both knew they were going to die if they stayed. I don't see it as heroic it was really just stupid. They were trapped by their idea of what a man does.

Only problem with this is that while it leads directly to Frank's death, Ray's death comes from something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That iPhone upload failure shot made me groan.

 

I kept waiting for the season to "turn good" or "get its shit together" right till the end, and I felt that this never really happened. There were very nice touches throughout and I don't regret watching the season at all, but it is easy to see that with stronger direction or a bit more polish this could have been so much better.

 

2) When I saw Ani putting on that baby-sling, for a second I thought she was putting on a Man With No Name poncho and I got ridiculously excited. I was expecting some Blaze of Glory after she handed off the info to the reporter, but I suppose having a child kind of prevents you from doing shit like that.

 

Oh man! If the final shot had been Ani wearing a poncho, chewing on an e-cigar stub, it would have changed everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious to know what the thumbs make of the various criticisms going the rounds in the mainstream press regarding the season. 

Me too. I've been checking out other recaps of the finale and they are all pretty brutal about the season. Pizzolatto is basically blood in the water right now and while I think he brought on himself in many ways, I can't help but feel a little bad for the guy. Couple recent headlines: "Insufferable Nic Pizzolatto Says Insufferable Things" and "Would HBO Renew True Detective Without Nic Pizzolatto"...

 

This podcast was easily the most positive, or at least the most evenhanded, coverage I saw of the season. While I wasn't a huge fan of the show, I did think the last 3 episodes were pretty entertaining and that there were interesting ideas at work here, even if many of them didn't land. Sometimes the failures of a work can be as fascinating as its successes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't know, overall I dug the finale and disliked everything else, which is the exact opposite of my season 1 feelings. To be fair, I was not into the orphans reveal and Paul's death felt really meaningless, but I dug frank and ray's demises and the Ani/Jordan ending. It's kind of funny that Frank's demise was kind of ultimately caused by how fucking convoluted his storyline was all season.

 

Also I "made" a dumb video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVHWM47Wi-I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this